siolfir

Compared to what is currently on Homecoming, your choice was to take Stun - a single target power with a long animation, 20 second recharge, and low damage that most people would not take or use in their attack chains - for a guaranteed 100% stun. If you use Total Focus first, you get a 100% guaranteed stun in a single target power with a shorter animation and more damage that most people would not use in their attack chains (aka Barrage). Slot Barrage for stun using the slots you would've put into Stun, skip Power Crash, and you're slightly ahead on damage as you use Total Focus first, plus you get a -regen effect, a -special effect, a stronger hit on Energy Punch, a faster Bone Smasher, and although using all your charges on Barrage means no fast Energy Transfer, it will still cost less endurance and recharge faster. You lost no capabilities and gained some in exchange for having to use a high damage, 100% guaranteed stun - that is on the same recharge cycle as Stun - first. There is no lost potential to stun, and you admit you are unwilling to even verify this yourself. That is why people are telling you that you are wrong. Partially yes, but you can also miss with a fast ET and then not be able to use it fast when it recharges on any AT if you use another expender (like, say, Bone Smasher) in between. The idea is to use fast ET with the charge, but it's not just limited to Scrappers and Stalkers that got an extra. In the meantime, having it in Barrage means that it's harder to accidentally spend focus simply by pre-queuing Bone Smasher in your attack chain if/when Energy Transfer misses and/or you get a double focus stack, where putting it in Barrage and Energy Punch and Bone Smasher (as someone suggested) exacerbates the problem by meaning you have to use Whirling Hands, use a pool attack, or wait and do nothing before using Energy Transfer recharges to get rid of the slow animation (because honestly for me it's about avoiding that animation more than the boost in DPS).

I'm not sleeping on the -100% regen, but the places that it are actually useful aren't common and the extra damage you can fit in from the faster ET overwhelms it. I personally think the -special is just as valuable in more situations than the -regen is, but have no qualms about forcing it to be a conscious decision to use a power that provides it which usually isn't going to be attack chain filler. @Taboo: Look, I didn't want a combo or gimmick either. But I personally think this is a good compromise. If you haven't already, give it a spin and see if you still feel the same way about how obtrusive it is. If you have tried it, provide specifics about what problems you're having and which AT you're playing it on, rather than just saying "it has a gimmick and that needs to go away." I tried it and reported that I felt penalized for using Bone Smasher when it used up my Energy Focus charges and that I felt the reduced critical damage on Total Focus wasn't made up for with the extra stack like the heal-on-critical instead of no-damage-on-critical for Energy Transfer did. It shifts around how you have to attack (yes, you are forced to behave differently and can't do everything you could with an all-the-time fast ET) but for the most part you can now ignore that the Energy Focus mechanic exists if you remember to use Total Focus before Energy Transfer. If you were (like me) one who rarely used Total Focus before it'll be a change, but the faster animation is tolerable. Edit: Oops. I was replying to two of those posts and had them quoted while you were pruning. I removed those as part of this edit and just added in a callout to one (the other was a minor point not worth rehashing). The post that wasn't cleaned is still quoted.

But you can either take Barrage and skip Energy Punch, which trades DPA for utility (Barrage is the worst single target attack in the set for DPA); take both making for a tight build; or just use charges on Energy Transfer, where the extra damage/DPA will get you faster kills compared to a 15% regen debuff against an even-level AV (after AV resistances). In exchange, you can use Bone Smasher without burning EF charges, which is useful not only for double-EF on Stalkers and Scrappers after a TF crit, but also for Tankers and Brutes when you miss with that fast Energy Transfer and want to still attack while it recharges - which is why I would be against adding it to all of the powers as was suggested earlier. In case it wasn't obvious from reading my earlier posts in the thread, I like the change to move the Focus spender to Barrage. I'm surprised (pleasantly) at the critical damage in Energy Transfer - I was hoping for a larger critical in Total Focus but moving the extra damage there allows it to be available more often and is likely a stronger buff. Yes, resistance affects duration, protection affects whether or not it happens. Edit to add: as a side note, putting the focus-generated stun in Barrage, which had such a low chance for a mag 2 stun, makes it easier to stack stuns (for those like @Vanden who are concerned about such things) since Bone Smasher was more likely to stun than not without it.

Both of these can be true? Stalker EM >= Scrapper WM > Scrapper EM. Stalkers don't get War Mace, and get a second "fast Energy Transfer" in Assassin's Strike. The reduced/low critical on the heavy hitters really hurts its relative performance for those ATs. It's probably tops for Tankers and Brutes, though (haven't done the math since I'm lazy).

Just to keep you fully up-to-date on this, Tankers don't get the 20% unstackable resistance debuff (Bruising) as it was removed in the same patch. That removal was the cause of a lot of discussion in the feedback threads while it was in beta.

While the set isn't specifically better at stunning than before (pre- or post-nerf), it's really not any worse at it, either. You might get more stuns from having two AoEs with a low percentage chance in each, but for me those aren't reliable enough to consider "better." Combine with Oppressive Gloom and the mobs in melee range attack you because a) you missed; b) you let them; or c) you're herding stun-resistant mobs (EB+ included). Locking down a typical 2-3 boss spawn should not be a problem.

That might be the problem then, the Hit Time for Power Thrust (using the same animation) is at 0.5s - this would explain why some people are saying it feels off.

The "good 3 chances to consume focus with ET" also implies you don't use Bone Smasher (or PC) in the meantime - missing with ET and following up with BS is one of the times I burned EF with it. Of course, I've been told that using Bone Smasher is abusive, though.

Yes, the scale 1 smashing portion criticals as energy. That's approximately 28%, and brings the total up to a scale 4.56 attack when it criticals. I was never saying it didn't critical at all, just that given how many other powers exceed scale 4.56 on a critical (a list is earlier in the thread) that the percentage of damage that hits for a critical could be adjusted upwards. The current hardest-hitting "producer" is Devastating Blow in Rad Melee, which is scale 6.16 on a critical and has a high chance for adding Contamination (100% for Stalkers, I think?).

I did. Pages ago.

I agree with this. I feel that part of the overdrama is the accusation of intent to abuse the system (which I've had two additional response posts deleted so far because I couldn't express my disagreement without adding to the drama by making my own assumptions). This could launch as-is tomorrow and be a wonderful set, an upgrade over the garbage pile that was left after the previous nerfs in every possible way. And I would feel inclined to skip it, despite waiting for the revisions to see what was being done for months and anticipating them for years, because of clunky mechanics that I would rather do without. I didn't feel like doing the math, but if anything that claim alone disproves the "intent to abuse the mechanic;" what I wanted was its old feel back. One thing to consider was that the old ET was before proc abuse, and that the longer recharge, so several current sets beat the old numbers if you're looking at total damage throughput.

A little extreme there. Abuse? Have you considered that Bone Smasher is the hardest-hitting power in a single-target chain that benefits from a full critical, is the 3rd best DPA, and that if I never see the slow Energy Transfer animation again it will be too soon? That many people, myself included, just wanted no EF effects AT ALL and this is our way of attempting to ignore it exists, by making the only use we cared about - fast ET - the only effect that can happen? How about you stop assuming my intentions.

It's posted. The new Energy Punch matches the formula.

As it is now, with only one builder, it's still a combo system hiding as a charge/discharge system. You have to combo Total Focus and something else to use it.

It's also a shorter animation for more damage at a lower recharge than the current Stun, and Barrage has the lowest base percent chance to stun in the set so would receive the most "boost" from it. And people who don't care about the -special and -regen effect can skip it, unless they are Tankers - then they remove it from the tray when they can go without it. @Super Atom's suggestion to add it to both is okay but I'd rather remove the possibility of it interfering with my single target chain between Total Focus and Energy Transfer by only having it in a little-used power, and until you get to some substantial recharge you're probably going to have both Energy Punch and Bone Smasher in your rotation. I also like the idea of having Build Up add Energy Focus but ONLY if it doesn't change any other numbers in the power... given how the other mechanic sets have reduced +damage, though, it likely will - which makes the suggestion undesirable. For what it's worth, I've wasted EF charges a handful of times using Bone Smasher once I get into crowds in just a few missions. It's not extremely hard to avoid, but it's still an active avoidance.

I suggested this as well, but thought that Tankers would then just complain because they can't use Barrage without messing up the fast ET and they're stuck with Barrage. But they could just use Bone Smasher instead and do more damage, much like the suggested "just use Energy Punch" pages ago for skipping Bone Smasher (although in that case, Bone Smasher is better filler than Energy Punch). I know that since I don't take Barrage I would like this solution, though - I'd still have to use Total Focus before Energy Transfer but it wouldn't mess up my using Bone Smasher as filler. Edit; note also that this suggestion is based on the assumption that Energy Focus and variable animation Energy Transfer is written is stone and not on the table for any changes. Obviously I have other preferences in this matter.

Despite being a larger hit, Assassin's Strike from hidden status is worse DPA and so it's usually better to accept skipping it from hide for all primaries. Energy Melee Stalkers essentially get two conditional 'fast ET' attacks, since Assassin's Strike is scale 5.0 in 1 second with Assassin's Focus, and Energy Transfer is scale 4.56 in the same time frame with Energy Focus. My argument is that given the gain, the damage tradeoff is not enough; there are trade-offs in spending stacks of Energy Focus already in terms of how it affects which powers you can use. The "consumer" powers you list will already critical for full damage whether they consume anything or not. Concentrated Strike in particular has issues with its production alone: For Scrappers, it is a flat rate that is not affected by critical rate adjustments. For Stalkers, the ATO co-opted the effect so that it is not worthwhile: every set can do it. Devastating Blow in Rad Melee is both a producer and consumer that does scale 3.08 damage and has a full damage critical. If the issue is hitting too hard then limit it to scale 6.16, which would be a critical for just over 74% of the base damage and match the highest scale "producer" (Devastating Blow). Instead Total Focus gets just over 28% and Concentrated Strike gets nothing (and hits later than even the old Total Focus animation). Even if you feel Contamination doesn't equal the bonus of Energy Focus, I feel as if there's room for adjustment between the current 28% and the 74% it would be if it matched Devastating Blow. Here's a short list of the primary powers available to Scrappers that hit for a critical harder than Total Focus (3.56 base, 1.0 critical; 4.56 scale damage total): Cleave, scale 2.72 -> 5.44 on a critical Clobber, scale 2.92 -> 5.84 Crushing Uppercut, scale 3.18 -> 6.36 at combo level 0 Devastating Blow, scale 3.08 -> 6.16, additional 0.296 scale on Contaminated targets Freezing Touch, scale 2.915 -> 5.835 (critical damage is slightly more than base) Greater Psi Blade, scale 2.76 -> 5.52, additional 1.38 scale for Insight Head Splitter, scale 2.6 -> 5.20 Incinerate, scale 2.5 -> 5.0 Midnight Grasp, scale 2.76 -> 5.52 One Thousand Cuts, scale 2.36 -> 4.57 (reduced damage on critical, was probably intended to be 4.56) Rend Armor (slow), scale 2.92 -> 5.84 Sky Splitter, scale 2.76 -> 5.52 Greater Fire Sword goes over scale 4.56, but only because of DoT - it's scale 2.28 for base damage and critical. The in-game numbers for Hemorrhage show a scale 2.60 critical, but the base damage doesn't show correctly.

Out of hidden status, Stalker AoEs get their 10-31% chance to critical all the time depending on teammates in range - I'd say that this is likely normal, especially if you were teamed. While not specifically referring to Stalkers or Scrappers, this is what I was talking about in my earlier post - yes, it's no worse than what's on live and technically is a "bonus," but it feels punitive using Bone Smasher because it takes away the fast ET.

Yeah, I was responding to the part of the post that was in between the images: ...and left the other part in about Whirling Axe because I was using it as the example of another underperforming AoE that shouldn't be used as the basis for comparison - it also does not follow the design formulas and needed to either do more damage or have a larger area. I could have clarified specifically what I was talking about better, though, I guess.

I know that one of the lines is the 5% chance to crit, but it shows up twice. The power doesn't have two crits.

The extra 5% might be the PvP damage? Sometimes the in-game numbers has a display error where PvP numbers show under PvE. And yes, Whirling Axe is also bad and doesn't follow the formula, but as you say Battle Axe has more AoE attacks available; even with the changes EM goes from bottom-tier (below DM!) to low-end in AoE, but the single target performance increases a bit.

It was actually a correction: an 8' radius, 360 degree AoE should be doing the damage that Whirling Hands is now doing; at scale 1 (41.71 damage for a Brute) it should have had a larger radius (just under 11' IIRC).

No problem for me, I got it from context because I knew what the rates were already - but if someone who didn't know that already saw it they might get confused, which is what I was trying to prevent. 🙂

Enforced Morale is Clear Mind, that does damage to the target in exchange for a 5% (ie, miniscule) recharge boost. It's only better because you can say "the beatings will continue until morale improves." Also, the mez protection in Increased Density isn't AoE, only the Smashing and Energy resistance.

I think you missed something in your edit - this should read "Scrappers have..." instead of "Stalkers have...." And Stalkers get a 7% base + 3% critical rate per teammate within 30', including themselves, to get a 31% critical chance outside of hidden status if the whole team is there and staying packed.