siolfir

I just caught up to the thread (and found the early parts nigh intolerable with all the noise) so I simply responded with reactions on some posts rather than reiterate the same points. To address a couple of points: The earliest iterations of Stalkers didn't limit it to scale 7.0 for Assassination: it had their critical damage cap at scale 4.56 - conveniently, what Energy Transfer does all the time. That's why the critical for Total Focus was reduced as much as it was; it came to scale 4.56 total on a critical. If they were just trying not to pass scale 7.0 it could do 90% of its base damage on a critical and still not get there. As there are a large number of attacks that do more than that now, including Clobber and Stalker's Eagle Claw (scale 2.92), Devastating Blow (3.08), Crushing Uppercut (3.18 at level 0), and Rend Armor (3.212), I could see adjusting the percentage of critical damage for it. It seems as if the rule was already on the way out, since early numbers for Radiation Melee had it at scale 3.56 with a full critical in addition to Crushing Uppercut going past scale 7 at combo level 3. I haven't redone the math in a bit, but I think Greater Psi Blade works out to scale 6.73 with a critical and Insight? Regarding the rule itself as listed, I don't think that a hard-and-fast cutoff point for base recharge/damage - as opposed to final damage, which is what Total Focus and Energy Transfer have - really works anyway, since a theoretical attack with a 19 second recharge (scale 3.4) would be allowed to critical for scale 6.8 while adding one second of recharge to the power means it wouldn't critical because now it's at that magic cutoff point for base damage. I think you should just pick your cutoff point for the final damage including critical damage and make it consistent; it was 4.56 and no longer is, and hasn't been since the first set of Dark Melee and Martial Arts revamps. While only tangentially related as it comes to allowing critical damage for these powers, Concentrated Strike for Stalkers and Scrappers has this as one of its many issues (which also include the hit time of the damage, the animation time, and for some the aspects animation itself). If you're giving up the extra damage, there should be something worth giving up the damage for. IMO the self-heal does this for Energy Transfer, while a lack of self-damage did not, and I feel that it's not enough on Total Focus because the animation time for Energy Transfer simply should not change and you're limiting power usage between the two powers to buy that (see below). I have not yet played the Energy Melee on beta, although I intend to once I'm done with work, but I can already say that one of the things that I used to do with Energy Transfer (pre-nerf) is still impossible to do - likely intentionally - with these changes: because the fast animation is gated behind Total Focus, I cannot rush up to a group with a troublesome Lieutentant or minion and take it out before it gets a chance to act (teleporters, debuffers, or summoners typically; I played EM/ElA and could care less about Sappers). So all of the people saying "you get old Energy Transfer back," no, I don't. I do not have the freedom to adjust my attack chain on the fly, often completely ignoring and not using Total Focus due to its long animation ("but you'll use it anyway," I'm told - truer now with a shorter animation than it used to be, I suppose, but if I ever used even it, the powers were rarely back-to-back and if they were it was ET->TF for the stun on Fake Nems to keep them from bubbling). I also feel that Bone Smasher consuming charges of focus is a penalty rather than a benefit; the -special and -regen are situational additions to the power, but I would rather have consistent animation times in every circumstance I can think of off the top of my head, so all it serves to do is prevent someone from using it in an attack chain between Total Focus and Energy Transfer 99.9+% of the time. Technically I suppose it's still "adding options" but I personally think that it's a bad option which in practice takes away more than it adds in nearly every circumstance and thus provides a newbie trap. I think the intent was to provide some single target use for Energy Focus before getting Energy Transfer, but in reality it just causes problems in a typical attack chain. I'd suggest moving it to Barrage so that it's in a power that isn't a staple of your attack chain, but then I think Tanker players who have to take Barrage would come for my head. Maybe throw it in as a bonus on the cone in addition to or instead of the increased max target count? Overall the changes look like a substantial improvement, the biggest glaring issue to me is the pseudo-Momentum for Energy Transfer, and how that will affect my button-mashing (ie, an enforced power order usage to avoid a stupid animation that never should have been there in the first place, aka the "combo system"). That's something that I can test for feel to see if it's tolerable and how many times I mess up with Bone Smasher, but I can already say that I would've rather had a consistent animation time without any testing at all.

To be fair, there's a notable exception to this (*coughTitanWeaponscough*) and the secondaries usually pay a cost for Hide. That said, I personally prefer Stalkers to Scrappers.

That's actually not true - all versions of EM Pulse have a 50% chance to hold bosses; only the duration changes based on AT modifiers (and Cinders would not have the 20% chance if not for the Controller inherent).

It's not just the recharge that's too high. The endurance cost is too high, and the radius is too small. So, I put my thoughts on Melt Armor here when there was a discussion about how Bruising compared to debuffs, but I'll quote it again since we're talking about it: I struck out the off topic part since it's on topic for this thread.

I'm not going to try to defend EM Pulse as a great power, but it has a 60' radius. If you're in melee range while using it, that's on you. That it seems "meh" otherwise is more of a referendum on AoE holds in the game in general. Let's compare EM Pulse to a standard control set's AoE hold, using Controller numbers: Power EM Pulse Cinders Accuracy 1.0 0.8 Base Hold 27.938 sec (mag 3) 14.9 sec (mag 3) Additional Hold 27.938 sec (mag 1, 50% chance) 11.175 sec (mag 1, 20% chance) Targets Hit 16 16 Radius 60' 35' Recharge 300 sec 240 sec Endurance Cost 20.8 15.6 Additional Effects -1000% regeneration (target, 15 sec) -40% endurance (target) -1000% recovery (self, 15 sec) 50.16 energy damage (robots) From the perspective of an AoE hold, it's actually a nice power - it doesn't suffer from an accuracy penalty like other AoE holds, has a better chance of holding bosses, holds for a longer duration, has the same target cap, drains endurance from the targets while crippling their regeneration, and does damage to robots. Would it be even better without -recovery? Sure, but what it does, it does well.

I was thinking less about armor sets and more about covering survival holes for any AT regardless of powersets: pre-IOs Lucks were the answer for rushing the LRSF at +4, usually with a team of mostly squishies. Those "universal tools" only last for a short while, though, otherwise why not include Enrage inspirations and Ageless, throwing out any +damage, endurance, or recovery advantages that Bio may have? Yes, Bio is a top tier set because it's layered, does practically everything, and has several "panic buttons" for when a layer gets stripped away, but it's not so far overblown beyond what other sets are capable of that I would call it unequivocally imbalanced in relation to them. There's little question that several other sets are better for sheer survival, a few sets offer similar-or-better endurance management, and there's even some room for debate on if it's the best offensive armor set (Fiery Aura and Shield being the contenders there).

This is the toned-down version of Bio Armor. It had more -regen (like -500%) for a while during the i24 beta; I don't remember the exact details beyond the complaints about it debuffing regen better than many debuff sets. But Bio Armor is the "if another armor set does something, this does it too" set. It was in beta for a couple of months before the shutdown was announced and I kept waiting for it to get released because that was going to be my next alt (and it was - just years later). The lack of defense debuff resistance combined with the psi hole make certain groups a real pain. Also, if you're going to count luck inspirations and Barrier as a patch for vulnerabilities then everything is OP. That said, it took me far too long to realize I was tanking a +7 AV with my level 50 Bio Armor Stalker at one point in a duo with a Dominator (running +4/x8, then +3 level shifts) when neither of us was killing the other.

The creates one window, with a max of 10 stats tracked. Unless I'm completely mistaken, the OP is asking for multiples of those windows. I doubt I'd use more than one (to reduce screen clutter) but I could see wanting it as an option.

Only if you feel that they were balanced correctly in the first place. Defenders were granted more damage when solo (Vigilance 30% damage buff) with no tradeoff whatsoever. Just look at Blasters before and after the i24 changes, and tell me that the Blasters gave up anything for increased survivability (sustain and more controls) and more frequent high burst damage (reduced recharge on non-crashing nukes). What, exactly, did Tankers give up for their higher damage modifier, higher damage cap, and larger AoEs? The point of the thread was that at least someone doesn't feel that they are correctly balanced as-is in the current meta, and should receive a straight buff. Whether or not you agree with that point is a separate issue than "shouldn't they have to give something up to get something?"

There's a lot of animation time overhead to keep that 500% damage cap, stacked Siphon Speeds, and keep up with the heals - the Blaster is still probably going to do more damage over time just because their job isn't to maintain all of those buffs but just shoot things until they fall over. It's not like Kinetics is keeping those buffs up between spawns, they all require enemies. It's the same complaint you have about debuff sets being useless (wasted animation time when you could be killing) only on a buff set. DoTs are bad for Scourge because it checks the hit points of the target at power activation, so following a DoT attack before it's done ticking off will have the target's health higher than another attack that hits all at once. If Scourge was checked on each tick of damage in DoTs then it would be more reliable using them, but as it is only Rain/patch powers are set up that way since they activate every 0.2 to 0.5 seconds.

The animation time is the same. The time that the damage is applied is not, as the gathered energy for Neutron Bomb is lobbed and the damage occurs after it lands and the small mushroom cloud appears. This all happens after the animation for Neutron Bomb has already finished, while Explosive Blast applies its damage halfway through the animation. From @Bopper's spreadsheets (trimmed a bit and highlighted): Unless I'm missing one, the damage for Neutron Bomb applies slower than any other attack in the game. For comparison, Concentrated Strike applies its damage at 2.53 seconds, non-Momentum Arc of Destruction and Titan Sweep apply damage at 2.47 and 2.4 seconds respectively, Thunderous Blast is 2.37 seconds, and (non-Dominator) Total Focus and Thunder Strike are tied with Bitter Freeze Ray at 2.3 seconds.

As a side note to this discussion, never compare damage numbers below level 20, especially at level 1; to assist in low levels, the base damage modifiers for all ATs is pushed closer together and the AT modifiers aren't fully realized until the late teens. Here are the damage charts from the archived City of Data: So scale 1 damage at level 1 for ATs with a damage modifier of 1.0 (Blaster, Stalker, Widow, and Spider for melee, Widow and Spider for ranged) is 10.0 damage. Those are the baselines, so to get the "AT modifier" you just divide their damage by the Widow or Spider column damage. That means that ATs have the following relative modifiers for at these levels: AT Ranged (1) Melee (1) Ranged (10) Melee (10) Ranged (20) Melee (20) Blaster 1.025 1.0 1.0625 1.0 1.125 1.0 Brute 0.90 0.95 0.75 0.875 0.50 0.75 Controller 0.91 0.91 0.775 0.775 0.55 0.55 Corruptor 0.95 0.95 0.875 0.875 0.75 0.75 Defender 0.93 0.91 0.825 0.775 0.65 0.55 Dominator 0.99 1.01 0.975 1.025 0.95 1.05 Kheldian 0.96 0.97 0.90 0.925 0.80 0.85 Mastermind 0.91 0.91 0.775 0.775 0.55 0.55 Stalker 0.92 1.0 0.80 1.0 0.60 1.0 Scrapper 0.90 1.025 0.75 1.0625 0.50 1.125 Tanker 0.90 0.96 0.75 0.90 0.50 0.80 Note that this archive is from 2016, so is before the Brute ranged modifier was changed to match the melee value and the Tanker ranged and melee modifiers were changed, so take those only as an example of the overall point of "the numbers are compressed towards 1.0 early and settle into their final values by level 20, so comparing damage values at level 1 is just plain wrong."

😂Yes, we're totally talking about EM still. Really, trust us! The numbers seem fine, and using Disrupt in place of Energy Cloak seems like a reasonable method to port it to Tankers - it wouldn't be the first time a Tanker version of a set is different than the others (see: Ice Armor, Fire Melee). But that's more up to @Captain Powerhouse to decide.

I'm willing to jump on the tangent for a post or two, so I decided to actually convert and check the numbers. Now, I'm using the archived City of Data page since I'm not in a position to check in-game numbers to see if things have changed, but looking at the numbers again, ignoring Entropic (it's mez and recharge) and Energize (same % as heals) to basically just get its consistent defense numbers for Energy Aura: Energy Aura, converted to Tanker numbers: Kinetic Shield: 17% def (S/L), 2.5% def (E) Dampening Field: 12.5% res (S/L), 10% res (E) Power Shield: 20% def (E/F/C), 14% def (N) Energy Protection: 12.5% res (E/N/T) Energy Cloak: 5% def (all) Energy Drain: 1.5% def (S/L/E/N/F/C) for first target, +0.5% for additional targets to max of 6% at 10 targets Compare that to Ice Armor - again, just going with the consistent defense numbers: Frozen Armor: 17% def (S/L), 30% res (C), 12.5% res (F) Hoarfrost: 20% res (T); +maxHP is effectively res (all) Chilling Embrace: -14% dam (purple patch applies, though) Wet Ice: 1% def (S/L/E/N/F/C), 30% res (C) Permafrost: 30% res (C), 12.5% res (F) Glacial Armor: 17% def (E/N), 30% res (C), +perception Energy Absorption: 1.6% def (S/L/E/N/F/C) for first target, +0.6% for additional targets to max of 7% at 10 targets. I'll call Energy Drain and Energy Absorption a wash, even though that actually helps Ice slightly more, because it means I don't have to create a range. So totaling the numbers up: Damage Type Energy Aura Ice Armor Smashing/Lethal 22% def, 12.5% res 18% def Energy 27.5% def, 12.5% res 18% def Fire 25% def 25% res Cold 25% def 90%+ res Negative 19% def, 12.5% res 18% def Toxic 12.5% res 20% res For comparison's sake, Tanker Super Reflexes is 26% base defense to the three positions; multiply by 1.6 for ED-capped slotting to get 41.6% defense after slotting with no set bonuses: 28.125% base defense gives you 45% defense with 60% slotting in all relevant powers. So the numbers above don't seem too gaudy for EA, really - it does slightly better than SR at Energy defense only, which is its specialty, and sure it has higher defense numbers than Ice across the board, but Ice has +maxhp, a -damage aura, and a damage aura. But then you add Energy Drain, which has a recharge (60s) and duration (45s) that allows the numbers to be permanent: A saturated Energy Absorption puts Ice Armor at 25% defense for S/L/E/N. It's still under SR for everything, and only gets to 40% with basic ED-capped slotting on the best numbers. There are still holes outside of Psi and Toxic. A saturated Energy Drain, on the other hand, puts Energy Aura at 25% defense for N, 28% for S/L, 31% for F/C, and 33.5% for E: just SOs puts it over the softcap for 3 types (E/F/C) and just under (44.8%) for 2 more (S/L) using Tanker base numbers. So yeah, I'd say it's probably because of Energy Drain.

Eh... not really. You still end up with Fitness at level 2 whether you want it or not, nukes still won't crash, and zones and enemy groups will still be updated. I can't say that I miss having to work Stamina into my builds at level 20, but it does mean that you don't get to experience the "old school" even if you're using a set that wasn't updated and avoid all of the things you listed.

No. See the part in red below. Energy Aura isn't completely lacking in defense debuff resistance - it has as much as any set other than Super Reflexes, such as Ice, Ninjitsu, or Shield if they don't stack their mez protection, and has more than a hybrid set like Invulnerability, which has more than Willpower. And I think that the "easy time" hitting the softcap is due to Energy Drain providing +defense per target hit. I'll admit, I haven't done a build for Energy Aura in months, and have never run it with Tanker numbers, but it was not difficult to softcap to all but Psi for a Stalker even without Energy Drain. I pointed out Power Build Up in a reply to your post in the Weekly Discussion thread when you suggested Power Boost: For Blasters, Energy Manipulation also contains Build Up. If I had to pick one of the two, I'd rather have Build Up than just Power Boost - but Power Build Up would give it a unique (to melee) boost without sacrificing the +to-hit and +damage that Build Up provides, allowing you to use it either offensively, defensively, or for both.

I think it would possibly be equal to something like a 15s duration Medium defense inspiration at most for defense powers. I think the only "click" defense powers Melee ATs have are their T9s, and a few have Anti-Mez clickies... but if it were made to be a static 15s duration regardless, as suggested, I doubt it would have that large of an impact on defense. Especially with only half of the original +special% buff. It's something like +98% originally. I can't really see why Energy Aura would be more OP on Tanks than Super Reflexes is. I wasn't aware of that decision, but it seems like an odd one to me *shrug* PBU would affect click defense buffs that don't also offer resistance (more specifically, those that are flagged to ignore outside buffs which is every non-bugged power that provides resistance due to how +damage effects +resistance if allowed), heals that don't provide resistance, absorb powers that end up hitting the absorb cap with little to no slotting, and +regen powers that are, again, not flagged. The duration on a toggle would be depend on the frequency that the toggle activates, but would only be around 15 seconds regardless since the toggle would have to tick after PBU activates, then each tick until it wears off would have the boosted value. As for Energy Aura being more OP than Super Reflexes, I don't necessarily agree with the assertion the one is OP on Tanker numbers while the other isn't, but SR's only advantages comparing the two sets is in defense debuff resistance and in not having a psi hole (barring a few Mind Control powers that don't have a positional tag). On the other side, Energy Aura gets a self heal (Energize), endurance refill (Energy Drain), the passive resistances are consistent instead of scaling, and while it's rarely taken and/or used, the tier 9 has +maxhp for more layers of mitigation than SR offers.

There actually are differing defense caps for ATs, and Brutes and Tankers have the highest cap, but since the lowest one is more than 100% above the incarnate soft cap it simply doesn't matter that they're different. And some mobs get +to-hit enough that even at hard capped defense they'll still hit you more often than not. But people tend to avoid those.

No, they still invalidate it; the Stalker is hidden and the NPC isn't, so draws aggro. The best one for me though is during a Patron arc when you're rescuing a non-combat KoA - a group that normally ignores stealth - and you have to escort the only one in existence who can't see you with Hide active (yes, I know it's because she's a non-combatant: it's still stupid).

Was it stealth-nerfed to not fire more than once in an AoE (the Call of the Sandman treatment)? I used to use BP as Seeds as well, and actually have it in Seeds on my Plant/Kin because it would consistently confuse bosses, but I haven't made a /Nin on HC at all, and haven't played the Plant/Kin in a while.

Since it carries the risk of ruining the nature of the thread, I'll put the lyrics and meaning in a spoiler tag. And to continue in the thread (and to be evil): Lisa in the club said "Look! Henry had a vagina malfunction!"

Most of the attacks people actually use remained the same except for Energy Transfer, which had a 1 second animation where all of the damage hit in 0.5 seconds. The magnitude of the stun attached to Total Focus went from mag 4 to mag 3, so it wasn't a one-shot stun on Bosses anymore. Here's a link for the patch notes. For performance numbers on that, the DPA (damage per second of activation) of Energy Transfer went from scale 3.838 damage per second - at a time where second place was Blaze at 2.294 overall (with about a quarter of that damage as DoT ticks) and Seismic Smash at 2.075 - to it's current scale 1.570 per second. Currently, the top single-target DPA available outside of Stalkers or critical damage is Freezing Touch, which does just over half of the damage and uses the old ET animation: it's at 2.454 but is a pure DoT. Within melee sets, Rend Armor is 2.212 with Momentum - a touch below Blaze, although on Scrappers a critical will cause that to double. Including Stalkers, KM's Assassin's Strike is 2.987 scale per second without a critical.

To be fair, Fire Blast had the animation time changes (to 1, and 1.67 seconds) but the recharges on Flares (2.18) and Fire Blast (4) are not the standard 4 and 8 second recharges that the sets were supposed to have. That's why the power Fire Blast is actually worse off for DPA than an equivalent 4-second recharge blast from most any other set: even with the DoT, the much longer animation hurts it. Sonic and Water are also non-standard with 3 and 7 second recharges, and Burst in AR does more damage (scale 1.08 vs scale 1) for its 4 second recharge, 1 second animation - but until Homecoming's new powers (including the Shadow Maul update in this), pure DoT powers usually got a damage bonus for being DoTs for their recharge and endurance cost.

Catching up on the thread, so lots of replies. a) I posted those numbers in response to a "Fire Blast has better DPA numbers than Titan Weapons with Momentum," which made me take a look at it again because - get this - Fire Blast isn't that far ahead of the next best ranged set, while Titan Weapons - annoying mechanics aside - has a wider performance gap between it and second place. b) As I've said repeatedly, I DON'T CARE IF A FIRE/ BLASTER CAN OUTDAMAGE A TW/ SCRAPPER. THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO. I put the numbers up because knew Blaze was good, and didn't believe that the rest of the single-target attacks were well in line with others. So stop telling me a Blaster can clear faster, because IDGAF, it's WAI. That's one of the intended uses for AE, but you see how much of that player-created content turned into unique and original stories, how much turned into challenges, and how much turned into "how can I minmax this to get better rewards." Player-created content is a mixed bag at best. I used the old crashing nukes a lot. But I also used to use a spell on a MUD that also used all your mana and had a small chance of permadeath (ie, unusable character) with a large chance of permanent hp loss based on how much mana you had at the time you cast it. I don't miss the crash, but I liked the longer recharge and higher damage. I could post the DPA numbers for the whole set like I did with Fire Blast, Titan Weapons, Radiation Melee, and Street Justice, but you don't seem to want them based on this: Suffice it to say that Tanker farming times went way down using Fire Melee when they got larger radii and a larger target cap, neither of which the other ATs get. It's not wider than TW, though, and unlike Titan Weaspons, Fire Blast doesn't have any secondary effect besides more damage. As for the "actual point" of player powerset choices leading to a huge number of Fire Blast characters, have you thought that people could congregate to a set because throwing fire at something to do a ton of damage is just as thematic and genre-defining as super strength, in even more areas than just hero comics? That it's also a top performer no doubt helps, but it's such an easy and obvious thematic pairing that it's hardly surprising that it's the most-picked blast set even if it wasn't, much like Empathy is the most-picked even if its relative performance to other support sets doesn't make it the top performer for thematic reasons from outside of hero comics.

Are you sure you're not Jack? One of the appeals of this game was that no, it didn't have classes needing each other significantly and you could make teams how you liked and still do fine. If you wanted to go with all damage, you could. Even with suboptimal builds.