WindDemon21

It honestly gets worse and worse the higher up you get too, since the deep sleep still breaks after a few seconds with any hits, you get a couple seconds of that, a couple off the column, but without having an every mob full control it really hurts

Much like shifting tides and enflame both can, any aoe placeable aura should really be able to be cast on either the enemy or an ally. Radiation infection, darkest night, sonic disruption, snowstorm etc. Would be a really nice change to those powers.

Generally that should be a BENEFIT, but only when the extra control is in fact EXTRA. But since the control is instead split, it just makes it weaker and less reliable. It's bad.

That's exactly the issue. Since the stun only his 8 targets but still only 8 for the fear too is it's an extremely unreliable control, and proving out a power has been explained that it should never be the sole intent/reason for a power's use. It's not actually for the reasons I've gone into detail explaining. The deep sleep still will break out, and the recharge on explosive isn't up enough to use every mob either. Adaptive recharge is interesting to help hold a single foe or when you don't need it in the first place, but without lowering the max recharge when it hits a full mob (its main use) it literally does nothing to help it be up more often and is just a cop out ploy to actually fixing the aoe holds which should have just been made 120s from the get go (or 120 max with adaptive recharge) There is zero reason or (enough) benefit to having this power split between fear and stun. Just make it a full stun already (or dual 16 target mix as I described above)

Actually especially for dominator it doesn't. Losing that every mob stun is a big hurt. The adaptive rech on the holds means nothing when hitting a full mob since they didn't lower the max recharge to 120s. 4 minutes is still too long to be up every mob. And while the deep sleep is a nice addition, it still gets broken and the confuse Is so minor in only a 20ft radius of the cone and only hitting 5 targets its hard to consider it for THAT much. Again, as a full stun the amount of proc damage loss would be almost negligible, but the loss of the guaranteed control is FAR more of an issue, especially for dominator. As to the recharge, yes it would hurt procs some, but that doesn't mean that the power shouldn't be balanced for itself first. If half is going to be fear, it should have a shorter recharge than a full aoe stun. Again, if fear is going to be a bonus, make both the fear and stun hit the full mob, but lower the duration of the stun so it still does its initial job of making it so they can't attack you, and then the fear lasts longer if that is needed. At the lowest rate, the fear wouldn't come into play anyway, at best it'll still help it control in the longer run while still allowing the stun to do its initial alpha purpose. You're GRAVELY overestimating the amount that one more basic damage proc is doing versus the power actually working properly for its initial reason for being. The best option for everyone seems to be having both fear and stun hit for the full 16 targets (can be in the same taoe too just get rid if the annoying location half of it) and make the stun last 10 seconds instead of 15, and then have the fear last the longer duration after it wears off. Same probability, better use. It's basically the same issue that Seeds had at 10 targets, and the same reason why they need to make it 16 targets as I just suggested.

Right, so for half the targets it may hit the proc, but since the max targets hit between both the stun and the fear is still only 16 targets, that's only going to end up with a very minimal increase in proc damage. Even if the code was put in weird where the damage proc from the fear set hit the 8 targets of the stun too, that's still adding not a ton more damage, for the whole power being gutted as far as actually being reliable for what it should be doing, especially on dominators. It's just nowhere near worth it for an extra half a proc. Which again, just make it hit both the stun and fear for 16 targets, but smaller durations on both, or just make it a full aoe stun and ignore the fear part (or have the fear as an added bonus, without factoring into the balance of the power). But currently, the power is just awful compared to a regular aoe stun and needs fixed. And even remaining currently how it is, the power should still have a 60s recharge (which yes hurts procs some, but should still be that recharge based on what the power does). But again, just make it a regular aoe stun, ignore the fear, or make both hit all 16 targets with a slightly shorter duration.

Your slotting would still provide the same amount of damage if it was just an aoe stun too though. It's gaining absolutely nothing by splitting it between half fear and half stun. All that does is make it's stun control less effective, Hence why i suggested make the stun hit all 16 targets, and as with the fear, but make it like, 75% duration of a normal stun, and same with the fear. Or just make it a normal aoe stun, it's awful how it currently is.

So this should go without saying, but since the power is split between half stun and half fear, which honestly just make it all stun at this point since it's incredibly annoying to use as is, but if its going to stay split then it should have a shorter recharge. Aoe fears have a 40s rech, aoe stuns have 90, so it would make sense for it to be 60 second recharge. Or split for it to hit full mob with both the stun and the fear, but lower duration on both so the stun still helps immediately and then the fear lasts longer (similarly suggested this for the aoe stun in arse and dominator illusion to be both stun AND immobilize but slightly lower duration on them). It also doesn't seem to differentiate between only casting the fear or stun on an enemy, so casts both on some, and then some in the mob get absolutely zero control of the 16 targets. This power is an absolute mess and unreliable as all gettup, especially for dominators who rely on that big mob control it really hurts them too. Though in all honestly, if the fear was just an ADDED bonus, sure, but the power should really just be an aoe stun. Even for those who might say to proc it out, for one, who knows what the future holds for that still, but in testing even, even with the ATO damage proc for controllers the damage seems to only be working on the stun portion of it anyway so you're even then still only getting half of the procs versus if it was just a regular aoe stun at least for that proc, and so far in testing with positrons blast proc, it works on both, but won't seem to trigger twice on an enemy getting hit with both the stun and the fear, so it's still not any extra proccing, it's only less. Please fix this power asap

Cool, seems odd with how the devs coded that but any little bit helps i guess. Still doesn't change though that they should be giving the extra radius as the AT bonus though, without the extra area factoring into the damage calculations. Still their choice, there isn't some magical overlord making them be forced to calculate it in.

Not prior. Prior the procs were calculated based on the orignal area of the aoes. Gauntlet, was a separate buff that boosted the radius, while proc calculations were still based off the original area of the aoe. So per area, procs were much more effective on big mobs than they are now (50% more so) as per damage, yeah you still want to enhance the actual attack for damage too, but saying for each proc, it would get that extra benefit of more procs in the larger area. Not that what you said about brutes isn't true, but it was extra so for tankers with how they worked before, so it's really a double or triple nerf that tankers got now, and just feels awful. Also, enemies do cluster around you but will also still have a max saturation that they can be in that immediate area (especially think big box enemies like freaks), but the increased radius would still help cones greatly (especially those wider ones) in many situations. Again, this is all regarding that they keep the damage the same like they should, and not recalculate the damage based on the new area, as it should be an AT bonus. And also, man does it really suck to not have the increased radius for extraneous powers like armor aoe powers like dark regeneration and epic aoes, especially for aggro'ing. Really hurt that too.

Yes I knew that part, that's what the actual problem is with them changing the powers themselves instead. Now, if they wanted to take it away from that, because I KNOW they wanted to hurt it for procs specifically, that's fine. But this should still be a special case where it gets a larger radius, without that extra radius factoring into it's damage. It's scary honestly to hear that they planned for WORSE nerfs, but not surprising sadly.. End point being though, they should still increase the cone sizes without changing the damage they do. Edit: And honestly, with the larger radii, or even arc angle on the cones before, tankers were actually FUN because of that, and now they feel just as bad as any other AT with the smaller cones, and really just hurts a lot of the fun 😕

Ok that's the point right there though. They SHOULDN'T decrease the base damage, since it's meant to be a bonus of the AT. Meaning it should be as part of the inherent so it's not affecting the damage. Even though they increased the aoe radius, they SHOULD have still left the damage the same. This is entirely on the deva for screwing that up. They need to just do it properly. Again. You don't lower base damage for scrappers because their inherent gives them more damage. Or blasters for the same reason. Only outlier is brutes because they did it wrong where their base should be higher but fury give less. But they need other things fixed too so that's a other thread.

Right, well see response above about the extra area not factoring into the damage formula since it's an AT bonus. But on the cones, the extra radius on the pbaoes are nice, but i honesty enjoy by AT at least, the larger size on the cones because it makes some sets so much more fun especially with the larger target caps. Now without that, it's almost pointless for the cones to hit more targets because most of them won't ever reach any extras except a very select few cones. I honestly wish, across all ATs, that these powers had more of an adaptive damage/end/rech. So if the cone hit only 2 enemies instead of 5, it would do more damage to those two versus the damage done to each 5 enemies. This would honestly be really nice across the board, but especially for melee cones, and also really help some sets out who are low on single target damage. Just imagine if jacob's ladder, or proton sweep, or even psy blade sweep, did high damage when it would hit just a single target. I think the recharge could not have to be adaptive, but the damage/end would per target hit, and it would make those cones so much nicer. Edit: especially Ripper! Could you imagine how much that would help spines out if ripper was doing 1.5x damage or whatever when hitting only one target. Would really help out spine's poor ST damage. But yeah, these base cones without any boost just feel awful now on tankers 😕

Also just if you missed the response Psy, the increased radius specifically shouldn't have to factor into the damage formula. That's why it made more sense for it to be an outside buff that increased the areas the way it was before (like all other inherent abilities). It was only mostly changed recently to be the powers themselves because the devs hate procs and this lowered the proc chances due to the larger area (which is still stupid, but won't fight on that part). Though the base damage of the power, shouldn't be affected by the increased radius. Hence why it's an AT bonus. You wouldn't lower a scrappers base damage just because they have the ability to crit, or a blasters base damage because their inherent stacks up extra damage bonus. The only odd outlier here are brutes which IMO their base damage should be higher but just lower the buff provided by fury which would make a lot more sense, but talking about tankers here, the aoe increase really should be just a bonus of the AT, it doesn't affect the pbaoe base damage due to the larger area, so it shouldn't have to factor into cones with a larger area on tankers either. Unless i missed that they lowered the damage on those pbaoes due to the larger area, but that was not mentioned anywhere i saw, and i didn't screenshot any values prior to page 28 to verify now either (i know the additonal targets damage was lowered, but that was just to make the extra targets not hurt as much, it wasn't changing the base damage on those powers)

Exactly which is why those powers should have the -kd in them. That's mainly one of the whole reasons they should already have it in them. It's not "too good" or anything if grav/elec have it. It's just how the immobilizes should work. Especially for grav and elec immobs for the reason I mentioned. They should have it, all the others do even if it makes less sense Thematically for those others.

Yeah regarding the st hold tier placement that's all I'm doing. Just saying it should be in the tier 2 spot. This is already done with kb-kd in the sing, so this is for the immobilizes that should have them already anyway for other cases why they have them, more control. Gravity pulling down, and elec causing static to stick you to the ground make a lot more sense to have the -kb in them than say a circle of fire or some fireworks on the ground so they should definitely have the -kb.

I'm not saying lift shouldn't be in the set, but it shouldn't be forced between it and crush. I've made many grav builds where I wish you could skip it cause I'd rather focus on other powers. And you're not slipping the st hold ever anyway, so it's just to open it up so you're not forced to get lift I'd you don't want to. You can still pick it is at level 2

Too much for one thread and that wouldn't make sense, when the other threads already had exactly what they needed on them. That's really not the reason to use down vote. Those are to respond to the actual content of a post. There was nothing wrong with responding to older posts. If you don't like them then just ignore them, but they're all still valid. Edit: I figured as much as well since you seem to be in cahoots with golstat who is doing far worse(or are another acct of his wouldnt surpise me) Again that's not how you use downvote or other reactions. If you think there is an issue with doing what I did (which there isn't) then report the behavior if it's valid to do that, but do not downvote a post of content for that. That's not how that's meant to be used and negatively affects the true reaction to an actual post itself. You can see how otherwise they would see the downvote thinking you're against the content when it had nothing to do with that.

Please @Ghost. explain why the 26 end cost on rain of fire when the other rain powers do more but only cost 15 end makes sense. (And no it does nowhere near more damage to account for that, that's literally nuke level end cost)

That would be something to look into (though still not ideal, those first two hits are literally just nimble slash so just cast it before if you want it to look the same), but base issue still existing of its recharge needing to go up, and it's damage would have to go up even further than I suggested to match the longer animation time.

It is much better now, but still doesn't change that the st hold should be the available option for tier 2 so you can pick it out of the gate and skip the others if you want to like all other control sets.

You missed the idea. I'm not talking little Beams. I'm talking big blasts. It is for energy blast after all. The actual projectiles would remain the same. This is just mainly changing how they come out of the body, or rather eyes.

This fix wouldn't improve the st damage at all actually. It would just make the power actually worth taking and using. It'd still be middle of the road dpa after the specifications i gave (yes it really is that bad lol). But the main intent is to make it useful for an actual combo that uses it without seriously debilitating your damage, and make it actually worth using for lower st dps, but to actually be able to use its knockdown for survival against a single target without SUCH a serious dps loss by using it versus attack vitals.

This is still an issue.

Wow, still not fixed..