WindDemon21

OK, I think I found the bug actually. The bug IS with fire cages. After a lot more testing, depending when you use cages and when you cast it. I was testing bonfire, not that fire cages should have any effect on it KD chance, and it didn't happen every time which is really odd because it didn't do this every time , but only when I'd use fire cages would I get the whole mob knockdown. It's very odd, and obviously is not what the devs had intended for the power. But does confirm the bug whatever is going on. Try testing bonfire on it's own though when I used bonfire on its own, I did not get the whole mob knockdown, as I assume this bug would be found and fixed eventually, unless we get confirmation from them that they aren't touching it, I would expect this. Adjust your expectations accordingly, but as it is *supposed* to work, it's really bad. If they confirm that they aren't changing it again, then I suppose that's one thing, but I'd still have the power itself be more consistent, especially if using as an opener. I did not get as you claimed without first using fire cages on the mob before bonfire hit, and obviously you don't want to be NEEDING to do that and getting all the aggro and alpha strike. Regardless the other non-smoke related changes I mentioned should still happen, but if and when they do fix this bug, the set should definitely be compensated via smoke. Edit before i hit the edit button because I caught it in time lol: Been trying with other fire powers, especially flashfire, and it did seem to bump up the knockdown chances as well, but oddly not as much as when I used fire cages. I presume hotfeet seemed to impact it as well but i'd chock that up to rng since I'd had already flashfire'd them so I didn't die and tried to see what it was post-stun wearing off. In both cases though the KD noticeably happened more when fire cages was used.

That's weird because that's not anywhere near what I've seen when testing, and that's not how the power works with a kb-kd converter in it anyway. It seems that you're basing it on not putting a kb-kd in it and spamming fire cages because that's the only way it will knock the entire mob down in unison. This is a discussion about the bonfire nerf with kb-kd in it, not in your circumstance. If you were somehow seeing it happen as you just described with kb-kd in it only, and not zero kb-kd with fire cages spammed, then there is some other bug happening. Possibly related to which kb-kd you're using? Testing mine I had the sudden acceleration one in it, and with even 3 enemies, I was only seeing knockdown on one of the 3 about every 4 seconds. I tested this just now again and same results. On a full mob, I was only seeing about 2 enemies knocked down at any given time. And yes i've used OF in it pre-patch, and even then it would never knock the whole mob down in unison, only maybe a couple extra knockdowns at first cast and again after 10 seconds as procs work. So if it is as you're saying, i'm not sure what it is but there is definitely some favorable bug that you're getting that nobody else seems to be getting at least nobody that i've heard. This is definitely a big issue, and it is NOT working as you seem to somehow be seeing it. Again I just tested it again and was only getting about 2 enemies knocked down at any time. THIS IS NOT OK! Hence these suggestions, which honestly even pre-patch bonfire was nice but never really close to OP and could still see these changes happening to the set. But especially now with how bonfire is working, or I should say not working, the set needs help. Edit, just tested with OF too, and still only on average 2 enemies knocked down at any given time. There is NO way you're seeing it as described without some really weird and specific bug happening. THIS IS NOT OK.

Whenever it was, thought it was later than that but yes, ever since they were cut down to 1 pet only the resistance drop was very noticeable for not being able to heal it and should have been brought back up then, but another thread still.

Ah elec, knew there was one i was forgetting. Even though then though it's not a true "aoe" and has issues with chaining, missing, not confusing the whole mob at once when you need it etc. So I'd still count it closer to a half than a full aoe confuse. Regarding hotfeet, yes, but without that -max run speed it makes a BIG difference in how weak the power is as a slow power, especially when the power needs so much acc/dam/end reduction slotted in the power as well. With fire cages, nobody is also not using that on top of hotfeet (and if they don't they'll really notice how weak the slow is without that -max run speed), but in a pseudopet especially bonfire, again, it's not the same as having it in hotfeet. That allows you to use it for corner pulling, or if not using kb-kd, lets it slow the mobs down so they don't get past the center where the KB will start flying them in the opposite direction of where you want creating a "barrier wall" effect. Hotfeet again, also will suppress when mezzed doing nothing. In either case, the loss means the set is relying on just the aoe stun, and the aoe hold (which is usually reserved for oh crap moments esp with the 4 minute rech that all should really be 2 minutes on all sets), so the main only mitigation in the set is all resting on flashfire, which is not enough mitigation for a control set (certainly not only looking at max +rech builds with permahasten etc) It's definitely not power creep. Bonfire working properly was the only thing offsetting fire controls control to make it worthy enough, with that nerfed, the set definitely needs help, and smoke canister clone for smoke is the perfect fix to round out the set. (and yes, gravity also still needs help, sing pull in is nice, but the set still needs another every mob/soft control, on top of sing getting it's resists bumped back to 90% like it was before or beter at 70% but heal-able but that's another thread)

There are *now* 2.5 sets with it (half for mass confusion due to its rech tbh) even at 3, that is not a lot lol. Even without the bonfire nerf, the set could still make sense for that to be a Smoke canister type power. And that is not how it ends up in play, the bonfire nerf is noticeably worse easily. You can see it just by playing it and noticing how many less KDs are happening. There are so many more that are just standing there not getting KD'd from it. Hence all the people complaining about this nerf this patch. As to the slow, much like hotfeet it makes sense for it to be there. It also works much differently in the power itself versus a (very weak) slow that is toggled on around you that also gets suppressed when you get mezzed. They're not even close in benefits of having it in the pseudopet itself versus the slow in hotfeet, especially for how weak the slow in hotfeet is.

It definitely wasn't. That was only the case when kb-kd was first introduced to it but it was nerfed properly then and has been fine since. It's much more noticeably pathetic now after this last patch and this is to help reclaim the sets control that was overly lost. (Which easily still could have been done even if bonfire wasn't nerfed anyway it just makes extra sense now)

So as noticeable and unnecessary as the bonfire nerf was, especially for controller/dominators there should be some compensation to recover control that was lost due to this. Since Smoke has been in the set forever, which is nice but widely the most skippable power besides the bad tier 1, and now that smoke cannister is working in arsenal, I think a perfect way to fix fire control would be to port the smoke canister power exactly just with smoke's animation. This would give fire control back the every mob mitigation without relying only on flashfire (generally assuming you save the aoe hold for oh sh!t moments like you do with other sets), especially earlier on when you don't have i ready every mob. The smoke canister power would be the perfect way to change smoke and fix the control lost for fire control. In addition for bonfire itself it really should have a quicksand-like slow component added to it now IMO, and it desperately needs its cast time reduced to the 1.67s cast that the exact same animation already exists in neuron bomb and force bomb. (Likewise flashfire/ flash freeze etc should be reduced to the 1.83s like psi tornado is) And Imps have needed help beyond all pets being even level which should happen. They need at least some s/l resistance, could even see psy resist since theyre so mindless, and some mez resistance (not protection is fine) since they are kinda the embodiment of "burn off the mez" kinda like what AM does. They should really have ring of fire added to their attack too so they can bring down flyers, that or cremate with the KD to help them survive but RoF makes more sense (or flares). Edit: hopefully this gets fixed very soon with page 27.2 and not wait till page 28 please *crosses fingers*

So as noticeable and unnecessary as the bonfire nerf was, especially for controller/dominators there should be some compensation to recover control that was lost due to this. Since Smoke has been in the set forever, which is nice but widely the most skippable power besides the bad tier 1, and now that smoke cannister is working in arsenal, I think a perfect way to fix fire control would be to change smoke into what smoke canister is but just with smoke's animation. This would give fire control back the every mob mitigation without relying only on flashfire (generally assuming you save the aoe hold for oh sh!t moments like you do with other sets), especially earlier on when you don't have i ready every mob. The smoke canister power would be the perfect way to change smoke and fix the control lost for fire control. Edit: hopefully this gets fixed very soon with page 27.2 and not wait till page 28 please *crosses fingers*

100% pair it with an armor that has a taunt aura or they're going to be running all over the place. I had to abandon my dm/ice scrap cause of this (why CE still doesn't have taunt like it should is also super annoying on scrappers) dm/shield is pretty classically great all around. Taunt aura, self heal with shield, and extra aoe attack to help DM.

SHHHHH! FYI i assume they kept the ranged aoe cause it having pet sets would just suck.

slowpoke XD

Popping in more on the mind control changes. Telekinesis still definitely needs a recharge reduction so it can be used every mob, especially since the recharge doesn't start until the power toggles off. I don't suppose the range of the repel could be separate from the range of activating the power so the repel doesn't happen until maybe like 20 feet not 50? This way it's not pushing them away from you when you're just trying to get closer to the mob or position around them unless you actually want them moved then you just go closer. On updates to mind control too you still need to move Dominate to tier 2 and same with the gravity distortion in grav. Lift having the same animation also needs the 1.03s cast not 1.87s. Edit: Just saw the patch notes for today, 90s is still too long on telekinesis since the timer doesn't start counting down until after the power is toggled off. I'd say 60s would the bare minimum needed for the power to function properly each mob, but 45s would be more appropriate.

The tri-cannon is still pretty trash as well. Could we please get a fix for it soon. The taunt usually hurts more than it helps cause it splits the mob apart cause he doesn't go in melee. The one attack it has struggles a lot too where it still could use another attack like a mini-full auto cone or even just another ST attack like burst or something. I'd much rather it have those than to have it have a taunt aura which usually ends up hurting more than it helps.

So this was an issue when they revamped FF as it was, but with the terrible loss of force bubble, mainly cause it had the radius, repulsion fields radius makes it far less usable with the insane mag on the repel it has. Please lower the repel and add the proper big slow to damping bubble so we can use the powers to push mobs how we want them. Repulsion field should be more usable but that mag makes it a must skip pretty much, and damping bubble while having some nice stuff most of it is too weak, but would really elevate the set to have a big -speed/jump/fly/maxrun speed and set FF in a really good spot. (of course adding proccing absorb to it would be really good too)

Also the -fly on sleep grenade either isn't high enough, or is bugged because enemies keep flying right through/out of it.

You'll DEFINITELY need it until they fix pendulum UGHHH. It STILL has almost DOUBLE the end/rech that it should have for the new nerfed damage that it has. It's recharge is 15 and end is 14.35. It has the same 2s cast time, and does just 9% more damage than slice on broadsword does, which is on an 8s recharge and 8.53 end and still hits the same 5 targets. They really still need to fix this power as it's just ruining the set from being pretty much perfect, especially on endurance. Its cone before had no problems hitting the 5 targets, but they had to make it taoe so it wasn't un-synergistic with axe cyclone, but the power basically still works the same. Given the set synergy and *slight* bit more ease of use I could see having maybe a little more end/rech, closer to maybe 10 end and recharge, but definitely not the 15 end/rech that it has now. It's really bad 😕 and they need to fix it asap. It's aggravating me to no end that they haven't fixed this yet, or even that they let it go live with such terrible stats as is either. They need to fix this ASAP.

If going that type of route I would heavily suggest ice/shield. The heal proc in FA goes further with shield since it won't negate SR's scaling resists and is a REALLY big boost for shield. Shield also gives you shield charge which is really nice with ice melee to help on the alpha strike. It also boosts your damage with a big mob around you with against all odds to help offset the weaker single target damage if you get a few hits off on the hard targets while some enemies are still around you it helps that out a lot. There is also a bonus which made me want to do the combo in the first place even without these synergies in that there is an actual "ice shield" option that looks glorious with the ice swords together. For either, ranged defense is always the toughest thing to get on a melee typed build (they need to fix/add some sets to get more ranged defense on melee/pbaoe attacks, and smash/lethal defense for ranged/ranged aoe attacks grrr), so I would change frosts slotting to a full artillery set for 4.07% more ranged defense, plus as a bonus the set offers 25.6% more range to frost which is REALLY noticable for it, taking it's cone from 10feet to 12.5 feet really lets you hit a bigger mob. It doesn't sound like much but it is the difference between a whole other layer of mob distance (think 5ft per enemy, means you can hit about 50% more targets up to the target cap)

GiS actually already had the 1.83 second Ice slash animation that domintars currenlty have. The old devs nerfed it to be this dumb slow version, nudevs need to fix it back to that. Frozen fists is also god awful, they need to just make it the .83s brawl animation that charged brawl and energy punch have and just call it frost punch. These two changes would make ice melee about perfect.

Definitley put the entomb proc in freezing touch. Put the crit proc there as well so you can use it before your aoes to help boost those, and it'll help boost the single target too. While having it in GiS (which still needs it's animation fixed as does frozen fists) would be a slight bit more ST damage, it's way too slow to use before your aoes after build up/gaussians proc. Oh yeah, obviously put gaussians proc in build up. If they ever fix ice patch/slick/nitrogen to properly take slow/kb ios and sets there would be some options in that power decently, but can't right now, just one slot it with the recharge or end reduction. Frozen aura put the call of the sandman heal proc in it. I would put 3 eradications for 3.13% energy/negative defense. Damage, quad, and proc, the cots heal proc, and boost two purples acc/dam/rech and damage proc. Greater ice sword, as mentioned they still need to revert it to the faster ice slash 1.83s animation, but on scraps at least it works with the crit proc. It doens't have much special about it besides having higher base accuracy, but that helps enough to make that the spot where you put 4 kinetic combat, which are atrociously bad on accuracy, (set really needs acc/dam/end 6th piece, and dam/rech should be dam/end grr), but put in the 4 stat IOs of KC, and then put in the other 2 slots the purple damage proc, and another damage proc if you want. But since they nerfed both EA to not really stack anymore, and the global typed defense nerf since you have almost zero fire/cold defense now, It would be good to put a full winter set in it for smash/lethal/fire/cold defense. Likewise, frost is a good place for a full winter set too for 7.5% more fire/cold defense. Split scrappers strike between ice sword and icicles, so 3 of each, and then in the other 3 slots in those two powers put 3 eradications in icicles for 3.13% more e/n defense, and in ice sword put in 3 pulverizing fisticuffs for another 1.25% e/n defense. Make sure you max the recharge on ice sword. It's very important to keep your ST chain more fluid, and you're not putting procs in it, it's basically taking the place of the tier 1, but since frozen fists is so god awful, this is what you do. You can put the power transfer heal proc into energy absorption too for a little more heal. The heal proc in frozen aura, EA, and absorb in freezing touch basicaly equates to about 300% regen so they're very useful with ice armor. Make sure to max the heal/resist stats on icy bastion. You could put a couple of damage procs in chilling embrace if you want but any build i've done i've found that not worth it for the proc rate in toggles.

That's because it STILL has almost DOUBLE the end/rech that it should have for the new nerfed damage that it has. It's recharge is 15 and end is 14.35. It has the same 2s cast time, and does just 9% more damage than slice on broadsword does, which is on an 8s recharge and 8.53 end and still hits the same 5 targets. They really still need to fix this power as it's just ruining the set from being pretty much perfect, especially on endurance. Its cone before had no problems hitting the 5 targets, but they had to make it taoe so it wasn't un-synergistic with axe cyclone, but the power basically still works the same. Given the set synergy and *slight* bit more ease of use I could see having maybe a little more end/rech, closer to maybe 10 end and recharge, but definitely not the 15 end/rech that it has now. It's really bad 😕 and they need to fix it asap. Edit was cause I hit the enter key too soon and didn't finish typing lol.

3 Numinas, heal/end, heal/rech, heal. cap the regen stat on it, and 12% bonus regen and 1.88% extra max hp.

Faster is definitely better. What sucks is is having the aoe damage cut by 2/3 which wasn't compensated in the rest of the melee sets for aoe damage, and only the aoe damage was really needed on the other non-melee ATs so it's far worse there too for not fixing it to be aoe damage focused :/.

Also note, that mids says it accepts slow IO sets, which it currently doesn't, nor kb sets. Even though it, ice slick, and ice patch SHOULD.

I did, was just referencing that now the set is even more heavily "storm blast powers only constant blasting versus being able to use your other primary/secondary sets which is/was one of storms biggest issues. Also though, could we get sleep grenade put back to the ranged aoe instead of the location slow, unless the slow is brought to quicksand levels, kinda doesn't serve the purpose cause the slow is way too little, and the power worked much better as a targetted power that laid the patch afterwards, especially for the use to bring down flyers. Well aware of the command to cast at the target but there are just far too many inconsistencies with that with terrain bugs. Nitrogen, ice slick, and ice patch also still need to accept slow/kb ios/sets, that would also help, but yeah on sleep nade needs boosted for the slow or otherwise it works better as the targetted aoe that drops the patch.

Said the person that already admitted their 2 fire controllers were combined with the top 2 meta sets for each AT, kin on trollers, and psi on doms. This effectively makes your point moot. Of course the meta build only worried about damage is ok with the change. It's EVERYONE else that needs/uses it for control that is having the problem with this change.