WindDemon21

Exactly, fire control NEEDS that in it's kit, otherwise it's just aoe stun/hold and nothing extra or special to help control which isn't enough. It's control first, and then the damage was a bonus. The set already has it's damage niche with fire cages/hotfeet (imps need help esp pet level issue), this change is just absolutely deplorable. Edit: Remember, the function of the kb-kd in bonfire was to HELP fire control, well.. control, because it was so bad off before, now it's back to the crapfest it was before. This isn't even warranted in the epics tbh, it just made it actually useful versus the crap options in all the other sets to help control. Please revert it back to page 26 status. (at the VERY LEAST for the primary control sets). Again, the damage is just a bonus, the power is meant first and foremost for control and always has been and should be.

So just getting this straight, storm brewing, means more chances as you attack more, meaning the already CRAZY amount of spamming of storm powers and ignoring your other power sets that storm already was, is now.. even more heavily leaned into to have to storm blast only to make it work and ignore your other primary/secondary set?...

Bonfire was always for control, the damage was a bonus. TBH i'd rather have the damage changed to almost nothing to have the knockdown restored to previous levels.

Right but that's also part of it using it to help larger areas of the battle etc, so some do "rely" on it, flashfire, then cast bonfire so there is some control when it wears off, saving cinders for "oh crap" moments. Point again that this never should have happened, even in the epics, but at the very least not in the primary control sets. You also just mentioned the two top tier combos with fire control, so already using the meta builds with it doesn't really allow for understanding of other worse combos and how they play. So it is actually a very big nerf to actual control for the control set. The power also heavily needed the cast time reduced to the 1.67 version that neutron bomb had. Rest assured I'll never pick up bonfire in the epic ever again as well with these. Quicksand too, it didn't need the nerf, almost never saw anyone who actually ever picked it up in the epics, i'd imagine that'll be almost never now, but it still needed the cast reduced to 1s per it's animation as well, not 3 :/.

Fire Control > Bonfire: Knockdown rate has been reduced while using KB2KD enhancements. Pulse rate doubled. Pulse rate doubled. Damage now requires a to-hit check. Power now accepts Accuracy enhancements. Thunder Strike consistency pass (All versions): Recharge increased from 18s to 20s. Radius increased from 7' to 10'. Endurance cost increased from 10.192 to 18.512. Cast time reduced from 3.3s to 2.53s. Main target damage increased from scale 2.38 to scale 2.98. Secondary target damage set to scale 0.42. Epic versions of this power has 40s cooldown and 23.14 endurance cost Ughh really went live with these? On the bonfire again, as bad as it was in the epics, this really should have been left alone in the primary versions of the power at least :/, it's not doing crap for knockdown now which is extra bad for the control set which pretty much relied on that.

Could we get laser beam eyes bumped up a little too. Take it to 12s recharge with bumped up damage to match. Always felt too slow/weak for its cast time.

If only smoke cannister applied -kb to the mobs themselves, (and not just the confused ones strengh) Lord would that help boost arsenal control and help it to pair better with arse assault too XD

Still seems that the slow on the aoe sleep's slow should be bumped up some to help keep in the patches. But also big thing, is fix nitrogen/ice slick/patch to accept slow/kb enhancements/sets. Kb for those who want to make the power a pseudo-wall, and slow sets for obvious reasons to keep enemies in it better. This would be a key power for the ice mistral set. (especially if the procs could be coded on the KD damage the power does so that procs would actually work on a power like this?) And yeah the pet is still really lackluster. Didn't see any comment on it's taunt being bugged to only 2 targets instead of 4 as well, but it needs to go into melee so it doesn't split up the mobs, and have another attack/aoe as well. Also regarding smoke cannister, has anyone tested the purple contagious confusion proc? That's one of the main powers that really helps boost confuse powers, but I imagine the coding of the confuse happening on hit may make procs in general just not work on this power as seems to be the case with many new homecoming powers (they're clearly trying to avoid making procs useful on a lot of new stuff like chain powers). Tried testing myself, hard to tell with this power and that proc, but tried the psy damage proc from the troller ato and didn't see it happen once 😕 so doublt you'd get much from the CC proc. Yet another new power that won't proc :/. Definitely going to push the power to feeling like it should be 45s duration at least, 60s rech would make enough sense as well IMO with how janky the confuse works since it's also more of a debuff power than consistent control like a regular aoe control is. This would be totally valid. (likewise on the rech for nitrogen/ice slick/earthquake would make enough sense at 60s as well as soft control versus their 90s rech aoe stun counterparts that do full lockdown)

Symphony can, though that set has its own slew of problems starting with that power too lol. Also, a short duration -damage on a 4 minute low base acc aoe hold isn't going to do much of anything, hence where it should be in the aoe sleep power. But yeah on to that, it would be better on teams, but it should also work enough on its own within the set for any combination of power sets to go with it. Having it just proc on its own like static field only confuse would eliminate all the issues with how it works right now.

Stone melee too, I was just nudged .03 inches off the ground from a mob and i couldn't use fault/tremor. It was atrocious. There should be like a 6-10ft leeway to using "ground" powers.

It does vastly. It's one reason i often see "storm" in the name of someone on LFG and i avoid that by how much it keeps mobs TOO spread out tbh versus the damage it puts out. Like I said, storm has a LOT of drawbacks with its powers and the set as a whole, so it should balance around that which it's not currently. So many posts of "I liked it when cell was more spammy" just going way way back to my original statement of making all powers proc cell 100%, change intensify to a long duration perma-able to hit buff like 4m rech/2m duration like rage but without the damage boost component to compensate with no crash so that it'd transfer to cell/c5, lower chain to 10-12 end/rech, and then tune cell from there.

Regarding the proc rates, the 100% proc rate on all attacks should be the baseline which is a bit of what the last few posts have been saying truly. Before this beta patch, I already calculated that the power was doing a lot less damage than a standard rain power until there were about 2 enemies left. Now it might be bumped to 3 from what I tested, but that was also already assuming a 100% proc rate, using the fastest attacks in the set as well, (ie using gust as much as possible to proc cell in the calculation) In real fights, the procs will hit minnions that it doesn't need to since regular aoes will end up killing them ie wasted, or even when the mob is low, will hit the target you're already going to kill with your direct strike/cloud burst etc, so that proc damage is wasted as well versus rains which are still hitting all other targets. What 100% proc rate with more strikes going out will allow for that proc damage to average out better (and be visually awesome), even if the damage had to be lowered to compensate (though which isn't currently the case) I think while it's nice and I do like the mitigation from them, there are also major disadvantages to storm blast, cell, and c5 that other sets don't deal with (cell being needed for the other powers to have secondary effects, the end cost on cell, it doing nothing if you don't use your storm powers and try to use your other powers, the damage being low until the fight drags out, no way to nuke/start the alpha strike consistently enough if the mob requires it before you're attacked/mezzed so you can't get the procs out etc), fyi they get noticed if you try to start with jet stream and attack/mez/kill you so you can't get more attacks out after if you try to start with that), so their advantages should even out with the downsides, rather than under-powering on both sides. I think we should baseline the attacks to 100% rate, reduce chain to 12end/rech, and then balance cell around there, though I feel that would be pretty much where the balance would be at that point. Then regarding intensify, it still just seems out of place as a 90s click power, obviously the benefit of the extra procs would have no point, so still see the power becoming an auto or more rage-like perm-able power.

Right, I'm all for helping the ST on elec melee, but not at the cost of the main aoe power. Elecs aoe was *fine* because of that, with this huge nerf though, the little extra ST it gets, esp for the end cost, isn't worth the huge 2/3 cut on the aoe from that, since it was the sets only kinda "true" aoe. If it compensates elsewhere again, ok, but not as is.

Testing isn't needed when the damage on the single target is bumped up a little, but a big reduction is done in aoe. Changing around a whole power set or mechanic is one thing, completely reducing aoe on an aoe atttack to almost nothing is another BIG thing that explains itself.

Right i'm definitely not saying the set didn't need help there, but that is a BIG cost there, but woudl be a good move if they compensated by increasing chains cap from 5 to 10, or making jacob's ladder a better cone/more targets like power crash (stj's cone really needs this too in addition to the bigger aoe on spinning strike) Edit: but also to seriously clarify the point that, doing that would help the melee version, but blaster/dom/epic versions NEED the aoe from the power, they don't need it for single target damage. So doing this for all versions of the power is just extra terribly stupid. If you need to call it a different name in those other versions then do that, but do not pass this version to those by all means, and compensate the aoe loss in the melee version via chain or jacobs.

Its absolutely absurd, there is no reason to pass all versions to suck even more. Even the melee version isn't that great aoe but at least its more and inherent KD. They should all be more focused on this, not make the aoe on them even worse wth!? Edit: which blaster/dom versions already don't need, where they need the aoe, and melee versions still need the aoe more and it's worth enough to use as a ST filler if needed. Seriously, this better not roll out to live like this, and needs to be fixed to be more aoe damage focused on the non-melee versions. This is absolutely absurd... I could see a small part of helping out ST on elec melee, I could see this more if maybe the target cap on chain induction was increased to 10 instead of 5 to compensate then. TBH if they did that, I actually would like that better for the melee version of this power, but only if they upped chain induction. (without changing other stats) But yeah the dom and blaster versions ONLY need the aoe from this power, they don't need single target damage from it at ALL. So definitely don't "consistency pass" this like that lord have mercy... Epic versions too, they need the aoe from it, not as a single target. And they should all be inherent KD (slottable to kb if desired)

Um, can we also PLEASE not do this. This power NEEDS to be more aoe damage based, not more on the single target. Please keep the more damage on the aoe. this is a HUGE nerf to it's aoe damage and needs to keep the larger benefit to it's aoe. DO NOT DO THIS!!! This consistency pass should be to make all versions what the melee already was, more of an aoe attack. DO NOT DO THIS!!!! Edit: SERIOUSLY, fix the OTHER versions which have crap aoe and knockback to be more aoe damage, but do NOT do this. SERIOUSLY ughhhhhhhhhhhhh! On the radius note too, please fix touch of fear and especially spinning strike as well. 6ft is absurd on a taoe, it's not even the standard 8ft that most regular aoes are which are easier to hit mobs cause they surround you, this never made any sense. Not to mention how spinning strike's animation is even pbaoe, not taoe. These need fixed BADLY. It's easily the number one reason I always tell people to avoid stj (on top of all the st attacks except the tier 9 having way too short of rech to proc anything where they don't need to be that short for how many ST attacks the set has), and even DM on non-tanks as well. They need to be 10ft if staying as taoe. This seems like way too high of an end cost increase as well for nerfing it's aoe on top of it.

I'm seeing a distinct lack of sets for the power too which is a VERY bad move as well. Big problem with the power still is that it has a 2 minute recharge which doesn't start until it's toggled off, so you won't be able to use it every mob even because of that. The rech really should be bumped down to 60s.

That and elec's should have been done DECADES ago... Surprized it hasn't been done here yet.

Problem, then though, the set is just like almost any other, it's basically earth control only worse at that point. The confuse is clearly meant as kinda the niche/crutch power so it really should be working properly for all combos damage or not, or like i said it SHOULD just proc the confuse like static field procs sleep.

Just to clarify/make sure, don't forget to make sure this includes recharge intensive pet sets as well, since, you know, it's more recharge based, and is on a 3 minute timer and REALLY needs the recharge in those sets.

I've noticed this on other aoe sleeps as well. Actually just 20 minutes ago on my earth controller with salt crystals, started the mob with it, but NOTHING happened, nothing at all. It was just me starting the mob, so no damage or anything was affecting it from sleeping the mob. There still seems an inherent issue with the confuse as well where you have to actually damage the mobs in order for the sleep to occur. Any chance, if not just making it work like static field but confuse instead of sleep, which is the best way to go with this power, but if not at LEAST make it so any type of enemy interaction, ie debuffs etc, will also trigger the confuse? I'm betting a lot of testing is being done with arse/traps where acid mortar etc is skewing how much it's doing to confuse, but if you try with a different combo you'll notice, at least I have, that the confuse comes MUCH less often because of the weird "have to damage the enemy" component to making the confuse trigger. Glad the sleep is fixed, but the confuse cannister is easily in the core powers that will be relied upon each mob so it really needs to work.

"You can't compare a powerset that has built in proc damage to a set that does not" Edit" just to clarify pointing out what I was responding to, wasn't that you "asked" but you said it in a manner that assumed the procs were "free" which is where the balance seems to underpower thinking that it's so great, where it can actually end up a detriment if you don't constantly only use your storm powers only. But yeah, that goes to figuring out balancing the power that grants those procs and how the procs work, not the other powers, like chain which can/should be balanced within itself.

That's what you're STILL missing. The set doesn't have "build in proc damage" The set literally has a power DEDICATED to doing that, that you have to get, slot, and use. They are not free procs, which is what it sounds like some people are thinking is the case when it isn't. Could be better, yes that's exactly why were here. Obviously even the devs know that hence trying to fix it, and the track is right, just needs that little more tweak. Do I have extra investment in the set being proper because storms are my favorite thing in the world? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be a really good set, especially with the downsides it inherently offers due to how it works. (slow to get damage starting, need to constantly use storm powers etc)

What it does per damage/aoe/end/rech compared to another aoe. It's not hard. It does only now about normal aoe damage in coomparison, but it has pretty much no useful secondary effect, won't proc, and can miss all or half the mobs based on the chain/missing initial target. No other aoe has all these downsides, and it's end/rech are STILL just now at the same as other aoes. It's just math, and given all the downsides, balance then comes into play that it's still underpowered at that end/rech values versus other aoes that don't have to deal with all the downsides. (This is on the power, there is no need to even bring up that it procs cell/c5, as that is a mechanic OF storm cell/c5, and is actually a detriment meaning those don't proc WITHOUT the power, so the power should be balanced on it's own accord, just as the cell/c5 procs should based on the power themselves, another reason the non-even proc chances on attacks are extra dumb as I've stated in another post on here somewhere) Edit: I'll relay the last paragraph I put above in parenthesis. Testing has been done. Not everyone can get their videos working at the moment, but these are not just patch note theorizing from an inexperienced player/s. But powers should be justifiable and balanced on their own, and SETS should be balanced around their powers, not powers balanced around their sets. This just results in powers that are ineffectively underpowered and either skipped, or in this case "must haves" that are just annoying through and through by being underpowered and also end costly with use. All of this also, doesn't even touch on the topic, that for the set as a whole, basically has to be constantly only using storm powers to proc cell/c5 and basically can't get effective aoe if you have to use your other primary/secondary powers. That alone puts storm at a disadvantage from other sets, in addition to the powers being weaker if cell isn't on (that just happens to not often be the case so fine, but also presents where cell should cost less end/animate faster since it MUST be used at the start of every mob). Which I would gather/played to be about equal to the mitigation the set offers, meaning you pretty much can look at just the damage comparison the set does versus most others. Moving forward on that, ST attacks are more or less balanced (except cloud still having just god awful animation, time to get to target, slow dot, it should still just instantly appear over the targets head, not travel time, it still has dot, and the proc rate for cell/c5 being the same between all attacks. The nuke is rather balanced, no burst damage, longer rech, has to proc, keep enemeis in it, but does more damage over an extended fight. Jet stream is fairly balanced standard cone, which leaves mostly all the balance adjustments between cell, and chain lightning. For reasons pointed out, chain is easier to balance among itself, and is closer now, but still too high on end/rech for all the downsides. Cell is where most of the issues reside as far as "testing" goes. Which to be clear, should be balanced on it's own using the set, not tied to any one power, or having any power weaker in order to balance it. So boost chain to the proper stats acknowledging it's faults of not proccing, basically no secondary effect, missing all/half the mobs (given the bump about 12 end/rech would be pretty fair now), and then balance cell out from that point, which would be about now if chain is fixed for the 12 end/rech, the set would then be right where it should be. (besides the rework of intensify as rage-type or auto power as it really just doesn't work properly as a build up-stat type power)