WindDemon21

Right, but if keeping it too it easily needs a faster animation too. But still combustion is already there and would fit perfectly. For a set whose main focus has always been on damage it's atrociously low on aoe.

15ft isn't "ranged" lol. And having one, nothing at all, but this isn't it. And the issue is fire melee's aoe, it really needs combustion to replace it already, always has. If the set WERE to get a ranged attack, it would replace something else, but not combustion/fsc which it desparately needs.

Also, scorch to fire punch .83s please. Always also been dumb. Sure, I can't imagine a SINGLE person picking scorch now that you can skip it, but case in point, would be better to actually make it valuable at the .83 or even .67 brawl cast time to fit in between stuff, especially on scrappers.

So since the patch busted live without fixing fire melee's MAIN issue, suggestion to hopefully quickly fix the set to swap combustion for breath of fire. Breath of fire has always been crap due to it's cast time and super narrow radius and short range. The set constantly feels anemic, cause basically it's only aoe is fire sword circle. Please swap combustion for fire sword circle. If someone wants to complain about "thematic purposes" this never had to be in fire MELEE. Put breath of fire in the epic, or roll a ranged toon...

This is all true, but it mainly just needs it's proc rate reduced to at the very least 2s if not 1, and yes especially per it's animation it should be at least 10ft not 8 for it's radius. But again, proccing every FOUR seconds is horrid and needs fixed.

And the ato fury proc fixed to something more useful like a resist proc like tanks have.

So a class can get fixed to be enjoyable/worth it on it's own right? Case: see MM fixes now and down the road. As a standpoint, i think brutes really just need to have their defense/resist values to be in between tanks and scrappers, and maybe less reliance on fury by increasing base damage and lowering the fury bonus/max damage cap.

Those who also are saying it obviously. If I were the only one saying it, then I would say "I". Are we really needing english lessons?

Traps also has some of the heaviest -resistance of any support set against an AV/GM as well even without poison trap. Where this becomes extra noticeable is on those sets with much less boost in the way of -resistance/-regen. But, to say anything at this point, is really just discussing why -regen is valuable, completely against the argument, which is WHERE it should be, which is in the bots, not the MM attacks, for the sole purpose of being too busy, or exhausted to spam those for the -regen. One thing I need clarity on too, with the resistances being moved to the upgrade, does that include the force shield from the protector bot that we can now slot that in whatever upgrade it's in? With how the other sets get this seems like this would be logical to have that slotting be in the upgrade power.

You say build variety. We see "more attacks and slots and cast time needed to keep -regen in the build where it wasn't needed before" edit to not make a 2nd post: again, we're not saying the changes to the bot atacks themselves aren't lovely. We're saying what I just said above.

That's not the reason if you've been listening. Because now, to keep the -regen, you have to get and use the personal attacks. Taking away from other powers, and costing a LOT more end to keep it as well. Especially in the aoe, which makes the least amount of sense especially given the MM end costs on it.

Again, we're not talking about the bots MM overall, we're talking about WHERE that -regen is. It honestly sounds like every defense (which makes no sense to begin with btw, as even in bots, it's still there so what do you care), but sounds like this is only being defended by petless MM desires. Otherwise, there really is NO argument on this. Unless you, and the devs are saying that the bots would be *too good* if they had the -regen, which since the amount as is is nerfed already anyway, which not one person from what I've read has said that. Unless a dev says that specifically, there is no reason to not keep the -regen in the bots.

I get that, and what YOU'RE missing, is that, that is just you. That -regen helps more on teams as well. And now you have to pick up, use, and lose end on the MM attacks in order to retain *some*, ie also still nerfed from live on the amounts, of the -regen. You're completley looking at this in a vacuum. I'm not saying that the bot upgrades aren't nice for the bots themselves. What I-WE, are saying, is that the -regen should remain in the bots so you don't have to pick up and use the attacks to keep the -regen in the build when it was always in the bots.

Right, I'm not a fan of anything being *key* in those attacks at all tbh. They should be there if you want to add more dps personally, bonuses, to keep you busy etc. But don't think they should be key to a mechanic of the set.

Because it hasn't been increased "so much" as to offset it in some situations. It was always there before there is no reason to remove it from the bots into the personal attacks. One example, outside of reischman obviously, is marauder/cyclops/mintaurs when they pop their unstoppable. That -regen lets you widdle down, wait, why am I explaining this at all. We're not talking about -regen being useful, again, were stating, that the -regen should remain in the bots so you don't have to pick up the attacks to keep it. End of discussion.

As mentioned several times, so that you still have it for the many builds that are either too busy, or skip the personal attacks. It's also on the point of not losing out on the -regen by doing so and feeling like you *need* to take the personal attacks if you want that -regen. Again, we're not talking about how much better bots are now in relation etc, just that you shouldn't have to take the personal attacks to now get the -regen that was always in bots in the first place.

Also keep in mind, that this is also not accounting for any time you team, and that -regen means more against an AV than any one person's DPA.

From that one aoe maybe, but from the one that was on a 4s recharge timer and lasted 30 seconds, that most definitely was a perma 500% -regen in all cases. And averaging the other one, in long fights was about 650% -regen on average.

Again, YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT! It's not about "how much -regen is there now. The point is KEEP IT IN THE BOTS!

Ah so then there may be a fix to put it back in the bots!?!

I mean, FOR what it is, I do think it's better as a click, however, the problem is the power itself. IF intended to keep it as is, for one it doesn't take sets. That is one of the worst part of ANY power that can't accept anything. That's why adding a tiny end drain/defense debuff/to hit debuff has been one o the main things added to a lot of powers. Not that the value is anything major, but to allow sets so you can get bonuses on the power, but more importantly, get somewhat good acc/end/rech on the power in fewer slots. We've REALLY been needing a "standard buff/debuff" IO set for powers like this, sonic siphon, siphon power, fulcrum shift, disruption aura, corrosive enzymes from nature etc. So we can get acc/end/rech stats, procs, and bonuses on these powers. I'd really hope to see this implemented by next patch. That and fix the slow sets and change the stupefy stun kb proc to a kb-kd/extra disorient chance proc. (kb-kd for powers like hand clap, force of thunder, and lightning clap so you can still get the 6th bonus of the stupefy set), and make the purple stun proc something better too.

*sigh* AGAIN, we're not arguing the percentage, of -regen, vs the new damage of the bots etc. We ARE arguing, that it shouldn't be in the MM attacks and should remain in the bots...

I thought that too but even then would still want the majority in the bots so the attacks feel less NEEDED in comparison but still help. Even something like 50% per minnion, 75%lt, 100% assault, and 50% per attack. That way it's 400% from the bots, and up to 150% from the attacks. Still less than current, or beta max, but let's be honest again that nobody really will use the aoe against a st usually, and lots still skip at least one of the st attacks.

The personal attacks are supposed to be there to give you something to do in slow support sets mainly. The point being, many choose to skip the attacks, or are too busy to use them. Essentially not only losing the - regen with bots now, but also forcing you to get them to retain some of the - regen also at a huge detriment to end cost and cast/ support time. Again, prior bots did average 650% -regen. If they want to lower that a little given the increased damage fine, but please devs keep it in the bots.

Even con solo maybe. On a team, higher con (esp got reischman), that -regen plays a LOT more of a factor than any dps increase from live. Again, even with it lowered from what it can do on live, the end result is still much more valued in the pets, than forcing it into the attacks and losing it on those that would prefer to skip the attacks. It's the same -regen overall anywho in that scenario. Again, it's about not forcing those attacks for the effect.