WindDemon21

And I really REALLY hope they do. The cone sleep is really just a damage debuff, it's sleep is really mainly useless, and shoudln't factor the cone anyway. Either your spam wakes them up anyway, or it stops the damage from the stun which is also bad. Which testing shows that it actually doesn't stop the damage, which again, also makes the sleep portion useless. The sleep turning to the pbaoe toggle is not only the best change for the set, (25ft radius mag 3, less end cost than AA/CC/EA since it's sleep instead of a harder control so around .28end/sec, 2s pulse time, 4s base duration, similar to how static field stats work, but pbaoe toggle), but there is also a very good animation they could use for it: A bunch of floating music notes around the caster, would look pretty sweet when done right, or even/also a G-clef bar lining the outer edge like entangling aura has with vines! And of course, making the cones the same as the cone immob, for obvoius reasons listed above, this is honestly really weird they even went live with this not lining up properly. Then aoe hold pbaoe for other said obv reasons, and a couple animation speed ups and small aoe for the confuse. All pretty solid, aoe for confuse small enough to OP anything. Biggest change in the cone sleep, but rest are fairly small tweaks that really help round the set out better.

I wish I would have. I was busy starting a new job and fighting on other threads that I was exhausted when it came to doing more. Though that doesn't mean they couldn't still fix this.

If you read this thread, and read the other ones from the previous one, you'd know that we have stated MULTIPLE TIMES, that this is also factoring that in. Repeating it and acting dumb about it, does not change what you're saying, nor make you right.

TLDR Main Takeaways: 1: Normalize the cones to match the cone immob. Causes less issues with use, slightly shorter range but wider angle means it's easier for those WITH melee stuff to go in, and back out and use. 2: Big Important change: Cone sleep changed to melee aoe toggle similar to AA. Unlike AA which you want to always be in melee for, as a mainly sleep power (assuming as well the damage would go away it did as now a toggle) it is there to help the player take care of some enemies that get too close on a consistent basis (aoe hold rech too long) providing some personal protection where all the cones can't handle up close, but with the sleep nature, not something you want to go in FOR the power, especially within the context of the same set, where you'll still want to stay at range for all the good cone skills and damage. This is probably the number one main change to the set I'd suggest as it's current form offers next to nothing besides it's -damage (which it can keep but only melee), and procability for damage procs, which shouldn't be the main intent of the power, and all the other cones can do as well anyway.

First off kudos on the animations and sounds. Very well done. That stated, I'm also a big fan of cones, but having basically all cones does cause some issues and limits a very narrow field of playstyle, and the set having all but one of the aoe that does that, gets super royally screwed when the mobs aren't perfectly lined up within the cones. This is especially noticeable on small maps, and maps with obstacles, like stairs and corners. The set also, has a noticeable lack of a pseudopet, which helps when you're held, and if the mob isn't properly layed out so it can nab some newcomers into the field. To start, the cones should really be all the same, which most are, but that immobilize one does frill it a bit. The power itself, is tougher as a cone, same with dark, cause it can get a bigger area which keeps mobs spread out more, especially if they end up not being in the control cones too. They're fairly deep, and narrower too, which makes it harder if you have any skills you want to use in melee too in the support, or especially all the pbaoe and melee attacks on doms. It also, very noticeably needs to be almost instant-hit so they don't move around before they are immobilized, especially given the range issue on cones, it's slower to hit the ones in the back, and you can't just move in closer like you can with a TaoE to make it hit faster (like upthrust's issue). The fear and sleep cones as well, tend to have too few damage to bother with outside of using the sets with procs, which kind of lends issues as well, especially the sleep which all but is guaranteed with this set's playstyle to be useless. Hence the -damage sure, but honestly all aoe sleeps, should really be mag 4 and do -damage to account for that fact. So they either, fully shut down a mob, so you can set up, cause the sleep is useless afterwards, and then the -damage plays during actual combat. The confuse, is also kinda in a really weird spot, because of the damage, it's almost too low to do enough, but also makes it so you can't use it without notifying the mob too. Now granted with the pet, this isn't terrilbe on super hard enemies cause the dot actually matters, but in most play, it's still well, just awkward and ineffective how it's layed out. So with all that in mind, to fix and round out the set: Tier 1: Melodic Binding: it's fine, would say to have it animate just a little faster, at least in the 1-1.2s timeframe. Tier 2: Hymn of Dissonace: It's fine as is. Tier 3: Aria of Stasis: It's hit should be almost instant. Adding -fly would be useful as well. Tier 4: Impassioned Serenade: This power is in an awkward spot easily. Can't use without causing aggro, and using for damage, usually means you're also using the hold on the enemy to get containment, and the confuse then does nothing. I think it would best suit the power to at least give it a small aoe, not like a whole mob one, but enough to do damage to those around it, maybe about 10ft. Tier 5: Dreadful Discord: There are a number of ways to tweak this power but it definitely needs something more. Starting off it feels a bit slow and should have it's cast time reduced to around 1.5-1.67s. It's damage doesn't match up to Terrify, and it lacks the -to hit like fearsome stare has as well. I'd propose to give it a guaranteed knockdown chance to use as an opener, and lower its recharge down to 20-30 seconds, and can lower it's fear duration a little as well as a result, and lower it's end cost ever so slightly. This way you can spam the power more often, and for what the fear doesn't do, the knockdown is useful as well. It also lines up the damage to be more useful in kind. As mentioned earlier as well, it should be changed to the 60/60 cone of the immobilize. Tier 6: Enfeebling Lullaby: It also animates way too slowly. This power, as mentioned all sleeps should have the -damage, is useful for that, but it's main factor SHOULD be it's sleep effect, but is really off with the rest of the set, which pretty much demands spamming in the cone area, and the pet also does not mesh well with that. On top of that, it's damage is also too low to bother with, and is only really worth it to try and proc the power with more set options. I'd much rather it have another secondary effect like -defense that you could proc with a damage proc and achilles etc. Since this power also meshes terribly with the spamming of the rest of the set, and does not help with the big issue of the set which is when they get close by, or not perfectly in your cone fields, would be much better overall as a ranged aoe, but would be best to suggest a ranged low endurance enemy toggle aoe. This way it's kind of like static field, where it can proc multiple times through the fight, but also lets the -damage continue to work as well for when the sleep becomes essentially useless. I could see it also being instead, a melee aoe toggle similar to arctic air. That way whatever gets close to you, has a good chance to sleep and -damage, since you can't really aoe them with anything else on the set except the aoe hold, which we all know given it's recharge is really the ultimate last resort. The -damage also, isn't a required debuff for the mob itself, but to make the sleep better, so it shouldn't be focused on to try to maximize it on the mob, but rather give the power benefit. Given this, I'd say that's the best recourse for the power, as a pbaoe toggle. It would also mesh well with the pet, giving the pet it's own sleep toggle to help protect it from melee stuff. Tier 7: Confounding Chant: I will update when i get there in one more level, but as the damage reads, only when the target is awake for the damage? If this is the case gives a MUCH bigger push for that sleep to instead be the pbaoe toggle and not the cone. Otherwise the power mostly seems fine besides also needing to be the same cone as the immobilize of 60degrees/60feet. Tier 8: Chords of Despair: This is your standard aoe hold. The only thing I would suggest to change would be to make it pbaoe instead of a ranged targetted aoe. For those "oh crap" moments when they're around you can you can't hit them with your cones, and if the sleep becomes that pbaoe toggle, when they have DOT's on them, like from the stun, or teammate attacks etc. Tier 9: Reverberant: This is the biggest question i have. It seems mostly fine, but it reads that it copies your attacks. I would assume that this means it only attacks as you do, with the same one. This has an issue where you have to get all the attacks to really maximize it, Isn't clear if it only hits your targets, and I've had a friend try to test it and say it just copies WHAT you have as attacks, but not actually by doing them when you do them. If it truly copies what/when you do, then the issue is you having to get the powers, but has the upside of benefitting from you boosting them up with damage, rech etc. But also means it won't attack to save you if you're mezzed (where that sleep toggle on it would really be useful too unless it would also suppress on the pet if yours does" If it just uses the powers you get, but doesn't copy them. Mechanically nice, but then doesn't get the benefit of powers you don't get, forcing you to basically take all the powers.. Edit: forgot to mention the cone sizes on the fear/stun. The sleep as well if it doesn't get changed to the pbaoe sleep toggle, which really is the main move the set needs as far as a power rework IMO. It also would help out doms even more by giving them something to use and help make safer when they have to go in melee.

Ok, so made the build. Uses cold snap just to close in, seekers are just for avs later on for the -damage, but could probably be skipped for a travel or something. Most of the damage is in the pets, but cross punch helps a LOT too fairly early on, and helps out recharge a lot too even with it's bonuses. Caltrops on ice slick, since for a STILL dumb reason, you can't slot ice slick/patch with slows or knockback sets, but helps cap the -speed, and works nicely with the 15ft radius being a little smaller than slick's so if they run out of caltrops (when not spamming frostbite which is REALLY like this to get multiple orbs out for control/damage, they still kd, then run back in to fear again and confuse. Ray is just to debuff further for bosses/avs, mortar is one of the big ones for traps, and you definitely want it slotted up asap. Cap its acc and rech, damage is low, but that purple damage proc fires fairly well compared to others with its higher proc rate. You also definitely want focus on pets, esp the epic pet too, for damage/perma, plus the defense/resist uniques which go to the TRAPS pets too, esp acid mortar, and ffgen. You can use temps/st hold, and boxing with acid to solo, super safe, and some of the confused enemies will help too, and frostbite is also made damage both slotted, -resist procced, and energy font procced. Spamming this also allows you to spam disruptor blast for aoe without needing a kb-kd. Ice Traps Mace - Controller (Ice Control).mxd

Yeah the biggest issue with Trip Mine really is the interrupt. I wish they'd get rid of that on all powers tbh, but especially that. That being said though, it's also a great place to put a FF proc too. On a note too, regarding ALL sleeps: They were in the right direction on symph, but all sleeps should really be mag 4 base (initial cast only for elec's, not pulsating), and do -damage, to account it to the true starter/get in and debuff nature of the power, since the actual sleep, is largely almost entirely dismissed in most situations. But being able to shut down the mob first to debuff and set up, or lasting -damage, should be a staple of every sleep (at least the aoe ones).

This WAS all layed out in that thread. It would be easier to just say read back on that thread if you are not understanding it. And if you read it, you'll easily see that it is NO WAY possible that it's 95%. The issue also needs to be isolated by type as well. Easily, you can just ignore any actual damage aura on any melee type, its nice for that, but that's not the issue. The issue, is and always was, about those debuff toggles on the enemy that are needed for survival. Snow storm, rad toggles, nature toggles, kb toggles, darkest night etc. Those are the ones that this issue hits hardest on, and should be focused on. Venemous Gas: 2.03s Snow Storm: 2.03s Darkest Night: 3.17s (esp an outlier, but these go to the fact that also none of these should be more than 1.5s anyway even before this update) Spore Cloud: 3.1s Entangling Aura: 2.03s Radiation Infection: 1.5s Enervating Field: 1.5s Choking Cloud: 1s Disruption Field: 2.7s Sonic Repulsion: 2.33s Snow Storm: 2.03s Hurricane: 2.03s Time's Juncture: .67s Repulsion Field: 2.03s Arctic Air: 2.03s Hotfeet: 1.47s Conductive Aura: 2.03s Right there that's 1.98 seconds on average per toggle. Of the support ones directly, 5 have just 1 toggle, 3 have 2, and only rad has 3 toggles. But if you want to factor set-wise too, it's even more noticeable that it should be lower, as even the 3 toggles on rad total only 4 seconds now. leaving the longest set nature at 5.13s Total time, being the ONLY one that really benefits direct stat-wise at the 5 seconds (but not factoring that you can't choose which would normally be applied sooner). Looking at those support sets too: Average toggles among just the toggle sets is 1.42 toggles times the average toggle time would be 2.805 seconds, still under the 3s I mentioned, which again, isn't even including that no toggle should take more than 1.5s really. This all becomes even more moot when you even just think how defensive toggles have ZERO suppression time when a mez wears off, so this whole argument that there even IS a suppression time is already DUMB tbh. Telekinesis, and dimension shift are also wholly separate from this conversation as well for a multitude of reasons not limited to them needing reworking/stating etc. So yeah, I'm not wrong, and others have shown/expressed this on the old thread as well. There are also many other factors such as choosing which is applied first if there were no suppression, END COST while mezzed/suppressed of those toggles which is the extra super dumb part of all this, where the initial target is when the mez wears off and if it's dead already, the fact that you can't detoggle manually while you're mezzed etc, that the suppression is there even if you turn the toggle on AFTER being mezzed etc. There is still a whole slew of things wrong with this at 5 seconds of suppression, where the 3 seconds would be the more appropriate time-frame for it due to all of these factors, but granting moving/attacking, would be willing to try or at least compromise at the 4s time where most still kinda get crap out of it toggle-focused wise, but 5s, is noticeably in-game too long.

Yeah don't forget 8 maneuvers and cj/weave each would be 41% defense too, so granting just the 3% defense uniques easily hit the base defense cap, and with 8 maneuvers, they wouldn't have any need for radiation infection at all either. The only actual rad powers really would be fire cages, and hotfeet, maybe bonfire for more aoe damage, and char/ring as an attack for tough bosses and avs. And of course imps. And team tp would just make it fun lol. Forgot about smoke too. Honestly that and maneuvers from each would pass the incanrate degense cap easily. 8 smokes is 30% base, and 8 manuevers is 21.04% base about 32% slotted. Unslotted smoke against +3s (50+1) is 19.5%, so that's about at lowest 51% defense. Easy mode with IW/MoB from the epics for psy and mez too. Fun times. Also, yeah best thing for that 7th slot WOULD be /ea, because I forgot about the imps, no kb protection. One faraday would fix that, cause the kb protection from ID isn't is stupidly not in the aoe. There REALLY should be more options for kb protection for pets and ally buffs. Maybe at least a kb protection io for pets or simply to allow your bonuses to transfer to them (especially for MMs)

I like how you arbitrarily say it's a buff for 95%, pulling that number out of thin air. When it is in fact a nerf to WAY more at that time frame. Given that toggles shouldn't take more than 1-1.5s to begin with, but even WITHOUT that, it's still too long for most that only have two, if not just one offensive toggle. I'd have to pull all the combos, but it's really only a buff to maybe 10% of the combos, a slight nerf to about 40%, and a big nerf to about 50%. Don't forget, this also has to account for enemies dying and you can't even manually turn the toggle off when mezzed, and a HUGE issue, that during this whole time, when mezzed and suppressed, that the toggles are costing full endurance. Just cause you don't care enough, doesn't mean the issue is gone and should be moved on if it wasn't done right the first time.

The 3 seconds WAS about the max. We WANTED none at all like defensive buffs have. In the middle would have been 3, or 4 seconds max. 5 is still too long. There is no confusion. Just that the devs decided on 5 seconds for now, and we need to keep bringing up that it should be shorter for them to look at it again.

Yeah I was part of all of that, and 5 seconds, given everything, is still too long. Hence bringing this up again. Just cause the devs seem to think it's good at that time, doesn't mean it is, and shouldn't just be "forgotten about" because they forced it to live before the discussion was "over". edit: had to put over in quotes.

Just re-iterating, that this 5s suppression is still way too long, and should be lowered. Not as it to have it, now forced to live before the discussion was blocked on it, that it is still, not ok at 5s.

Dumb original dev design. It should 100% be changed to pbaoe and take melee aoe sets. Even the animation is pbaoe. This has always been a stupid bane on STJ and consistently makes it one of the worst aoe on a melee set in the game (not looking at stalkers of course cause oof MA). even dark melee has better aoe than STJ does now.

Aria of stasis lets you color the initial attack, but the lasting immoibilze effect from it is bugged and isn't coloring. Haven't done one higher on live to test other powers but so far this is the only power I notice it on, and would imagine the ST immobilize has the same issue, and the versions of those that the pet gets I would imagine has that issue as well.

Everyone already did them 😛 Also, @Area Man don't need the kin, 8 AMs+ assault = 280% damage boost, 100% base, and then only 20% slotted to hit the troller damage cap. The kin doesn't really bring anything to an all fire/rad team besides some resistance via ID (they should have IW in the epic for mez as a fire/rad (esp with that dumb 5s lockout AFTER a mez wears off), and already basically speed cap with 8 AMs.. A better support addition for the last slot would be like, well it really doesn't *need* much of anything, but absorb helps, max hp helps, and more -resistance/damage helps (or just actual damage like a blaster). But where i'm getting at, is another fire/rad would be better than fire/kin for the 8th slot, so no need to ruin the super team!

This is a hilariously fun/effective combo that i'm surprized I don't see much of. I'll whip up a build for you. Traps, is great, but could use some TA level tweaks, like turning ffgen which always lags behind, into working like faraday cage (with sleep/slow/end drain resist, but immobile, defense instead of resist), make triage/spirit tree get the disruption arrow treatment (much shorter rech, but can only have one out, compensating increasing the regen to 250% since you can't get 2 out but the one is more effective and castable every mob), acid shorter rech and wider aoe. seekers def need bigger target cap, longer/guaranteed stuns, but it's still great, It's definitely a set you want to cap your s/l/e with scorpion shield (even after the terribly dumb nerf but thankfully the slows/control stuff its still too useful on the alpha/long run. And yes, yes, yes, hasten, and rech bonuses for traps.

Generally speaking too, while it should be affixed, .99 of course was everything i've ever heard or tested outside of LS. Like I said, even with .8, it will sometimes kb, and sometimes KD from my testing just now, freaks, +2, no inherent kb protection or weakness. It just seems random at that mag unlike other powers. Really should have any native kd be just like .01 mag to avoid stacking too, as well as on procs like the winter kd proc/rag proc/OF proc. Then powers like LS, fix to like .7 so its native kd but can slot for kb if you wish.

No it should be knockdown was the thing I was getting at. kb at even level, but kd higher than that. That way its kd most of the time which almost everyone would want, but you can slot for kb if you'd desire against higher foes. It's still doing it at .8kb (which other powers i could swear only do kd at that level, and *sometimes* it actually does only kd, it's really weird with LS).

Oh yeah, also, like i said tried against +2s, was doing .8kb, and still knocking back, so that also doesn't track. I've noticed the "under mag 1" always kd'ing on anyting else, but maybe didn't specify the exact kb value, but pretty sure it works that way with other powers, not sure how/why/where this discrepancy is but should be looked at and fixed.

Yeah no tornados, was only using LS and crushing field (which also needs to have the -kb that other aoe immobs get, same with elec controls. And really, everything i've ever seen was under mag 1 it should be. Would be nice if they'd update that too then to the .99.

Lightning storm does mag 1 knockback, so anything +1 or higher, it should be native knockdown, however, as you can see, even though it IS showing it was downgraded to .9kb against +1, and I've verified .8 against +2s and so forth, it still somehow is doing knockback against +1s and +2s. +3s seem to be knocking down. I'm not using any other power during these tests as well that might be stacking. Also, as I've suggested, and it makes 100% total sense, PLEASE give tornado the pull-in that singularity has. I mean, it IS a tornado, and would help the annoying fear/kb (if you dont use kb-kd). Which also, would be nice if the fear was removed as well, but woudln't hold my breath on that, and can see where some may like it for the chaos, but 100% it should have that pull-in radius like singularity has.

And accurate defense debuff, and accurate to hit debuff, and some "universal buff/debuff" sets for powers like fulcrum shift, sonic siphon etc which currently can't use any, and the superior version of the OF set, and a purple set for fear, and actual appropriate sets/bonuses/stats for slow sets XD, and changing the stat/rech IO in purples to instead an acc/stat/end redux to get some more dang end reduction in them XD, and changing the proc/rech in ATOs and winters into instead end redux/proc!

Correct, it's a feedback thread, which I have given, and many others have prior to this. Just cause you don't care doesn't mean it's not there to many others of us. Your lack of concern about it, doesn't make our points moot.

Are you trolling? There is literally 12.5 other pages that explain it prior to this.