Wravis
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Posts posted by Wravis
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Yeah. It's turned more into a debate about our differing philosophies regarding how to run community testing, development deadlines, and the benefits of speaking out against things you don't like.
Which is probably giving poor GooglyMoogly a migraine.
I'm going to stop for now. It's the same people telling me I'm wrong over and over. We're not going to agree. The thread was thoroughly derailed, and it was never on sturdy rails to begin with.-
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28 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:
EDIT: By the way I've read that feedback thread. There is nothing being posted in there that can't be fixed after a release. No game breaking bug, nothing that crashes the server, no missing powers on any AT that has the set. Nothing posted to me means the set can't be released. It being underpowered on some ATs DOES NOT in my opinion mean it needs to be delayed.
Did you miss all of the people who don't like having a single target toggle in melee set that requires you to take the first two attacks in the set to make full use of it?
1 minute ago, golstat2003 said:At this point post your feedback and keep posting your feedback about the set. And then after thanksgiving when they get back to making further changes and releasing them to OB, test some more and give further feedback.
That's the best solution here. You're not being told to shut up.
What you're being told is that the set is not going to be delayed and further changes will be made after it's released.
Aside from Glacier Peak, Shard Warrior, Ghost, Championess, and now you and Steampunkette repeatedly telling not to give my opinion and just accept their decisions, yeah. No one is telling me to shut up.
Do you want me to make a new thread and remove "Sonic Melee Is Not Ready" from the title so you're not confused about the fact that this thread isn't specific to Sonic Melee? Maybe I should title it "Make Better Decisions and Reconsider How You Respond to Criticism So People Don't Feel Disinclined To Test New Features" because "Listen to Feedback" is easy to purposely misconstrue as claiming they don't see comments.-
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3 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:
And hey, that feedback can be useful NEXT TIME.
But right now it's spitting in your palm. You can do it, and the spit had a purpose in your mouth. But now it's just there.
As far as acknowledging it or agreeing with it: They -really- shouldn't. Like if this were just an interpersonal dispute and they felt you were right and whatever, sure.
But once it hits a company level there are two very good reasons they shouldn't acknowledge or agree publicly off the top of my head:
1) It Might not be Their Decision to Make
Captain Powerhouse may not have been the one who decided that Sonic Melee should get such a brief test and have no control over it. Acknowledging or agreeing with you, publicly, results in a mark against the people who made that decision. Both causing friction between members of a very small team of volunteers (risking fracture) and opening themself up for response. Maybe it was a member of the City Council saying "This patch is too small without a powerset. Throw one in!" and Captain Powerhouse responded "Sonic Melee is the closest to ready for launch, but it needs more time" and the Council said "Do it, anyway, you can do some more changes later, just get it out the door!" and left Captain Powerhouse with no alternatives.
2) It Limits Their Options in the Future
While they might recognize you're right (assuming you are), internally, making a public statements means making a fixed position for Homecoming that they can't, later, go back on without being targeted with accusations of hypocrisy, lying, or otherwise going back on "Their Word". If they've got a set that really doesn't need extensive testing (say, an assault set made up of powers that already exist in the game that really only needs a short balance pass to make sure the values are accurate) they'd be forced to 'wait' until the start of the next patch cycle to get it briefly tested.
So... yeah. Give them some grace, acknowledge that there may be reasons or information you don't know, register your discontent and then move on rather than continuing to focus on the negativity. It's healthier in the long run for you and the community.
1) Do you think that is a good, productive way to create content for a game? Rush it out to hit arbitrary deadlines you've set for yourself, and fix it later? This is a game. The Homecoming team isn't a group of infallible higher beings who can't be seen as flawed or it'll risk societal collapse. Acknowledging mistakes isn't a weakness. Stubbornly refusing to admit mistakes is.
I don't think that is a good way to develop content. So I am voicing my opinion. And people keep telling me to shut up. Stop telling me to shut up.
2) I agree, they shouldn't make a fixed statement about the length required to test things. I'm not suggesting they should. But this was an entirely new set with new feature mechanics, that deserved more time.
I registered my discontent, and keep getting told to shut up.4 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:There have been BIG changes over the years that I've disagreed with. Sometimes coming to arguments with others in CB (less so in OB). I've learned years ago that it's best to just post your feedback and just move on. HC will do things that we agree with and disagree with eventually. That is inevitable.
At this point it's not even the Homecoming Team that's the problem. It's the group of people who keep high fiving each other and repeating each other telling me and people who are unhappy to be quiet. Stop telling people who have complaints to be quiet.
Why ask for feedback if the stance will be "if you don't like it, too bad"? I don't think that's the Homecoming team's policy, but I do think that it's the route that tends to be taken because it's easier to accept the praise and ignore the criticism. And I think it's a pattern through a lot of testing. Hence why I pointed it out. Hence why multiple people have pointed it out.
The initial post was not very constructive. I'm aware. I apologize. That doesn't make the opinion presented wrong. I'm not the only one who has that opinion.-
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11 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:
Except they heard your opinions. And have stated that while there won't be more changes in the short term, there will be in the next update.
It's almost like they have a deadline to meet, and can't do what you're asking -before- the deadline, and intend to do something after the deadline has passed and before the next one comes up.
And instead of accepting that very reasonable "Rock and a Hard Place" situation, you're ranting and raving about how they don't listen. Even going so far as to move from the "We want your opinions here" section to the Suggestion forums to continue complaining.
I was told to move my discussion from Focused Feedback to general feedback, thanks.
And I am 'ranting and raving' that they should not start their testing when they know they have such a strict deadline. They can delay the release after providing the proper amount of time to test the set. And if they CAN'T, because they set their own arbitrary deadline, they should, at least, acknowledge that it was a bad decision and they will consider it for the future. Rather than pretending nothing was wrong and insulting testers for trying to provide feedback that they don't want to hear.
They created both the rock and the hard place. They have the power to remove the hard place. There were other things being tested that were not ready, that they are not putting through to the next patch. They are capable of delaying the release of content and features. They are choosing not to.-
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Just now, Ghost said:
My “don’t like it, don’t play it” comment is because I don’t understand your mindset.
Why would you play something you don’t like, or are not happy with? A set that doesn’t meet your expectations?
If you don’t like a particular restaurant, you don’t eat there again. I doubt you stand out front and demand they make the changes you want….so why do it with a set you simply don’t have to play?
Seems like a much easier solution then getting upset and going on a rant - which most people know never ever accomplishes anything.
Except this restaurant isn't open yet, and invited people in to test dishes to see if people thought it should be on the menu. Then sent servers around to ask "how is everything", heard people's opinions about the temperature of the food and the ambiance of the building, and then, before the meal was over, announced "we already decided what was going to be on the menu. We need to open by the end of the month. There's no time to change the selection. Thanks for coming" before listening to the feedback on the actual flavor, texture, variety, or pricing.
Now I'm saying "hey wait, we have things to say about the food. Why did you waste our time bringing us out here if you weren't going to hear our opinions?"
People would be justifiably annoyed at having their time wasted. They would be justified in saying "in the future, you should take the time to consider the menu changes people are suggesting. And if you wouldn't have time to consider menu changes, you should have scheduled the market testing earlier, or at least be honest about the fact that the event was meant to drum up hype for the grand opening." -
13 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:
If you can point to a post where a GM or HC member specifically told you not to post your opinion, please do share it. I have yet to see the exact words "do not post your opinion" by them. The fact that your thread is still here with GM and HC replies is evidence that your assertion is incorrect
The thing about language is that you don't need to use the specific words to convey your point. Carpet bombing every post anyone who disagrees with you with thumbs down is one way to tell them "do not post your opinion". Repeatedly telling them "if you don't like it, don't use it" when that thing is being tested and is (at least in theory) meant to be in a phase where it can be changed to something else, is telling them "do not post your opinion".
"I'm not saying to shut up. I'm just saying don't talk."
If it's not want you're intending to say, I can accept it. But it's how it comes across.
But why not voice my concerns about their willingness to consider feedback? If you agree with that sentiment, but feel too defeated to argue that they should change their methods, that's on you. Don't encourage other people to give up, too. We should want change when we're unhappy with things.
And yeah, I know my angry "this is ridiculous" first post was definitely not helpful or constructive, either. I realized shortly after posting that I should have cooled off before posting this. But it was too late to hide, and so I'm trying, belatedly, to be more constructive with what I say.
(Mr. Moogly, I know this is kind of bickery, but please don't delete it. There's actual discussion about feedback mixed in.)-
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8 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:
No one has suggested that people should not voice their concerns. No one.
What has been said in this regard and what "if you do not like it, do not play it" actually means is that all of the complaints and forum posts and rantings about Attune or whatever other complaints have not convinced HC to change their minds. The set is going to be released as is and will be addressed at a later date. HC holds all the cards here and they are not going to budge. They have a schedule they want to keep and they are going to stick to it, simple as that. There is no changing it at this point, so further complaining is not solving anything, and at least to me looks as if this has done little more than to cause HC dig their heels in.
Until such time the set is fixed later, you have the option to play the set or not. If you want to keep shouting into the wind hoping someone will hear you, go right ahead. Personally, I do not see it moving the dial.
I disagree with your first statement.
However, the part I highlighted, I definitely agree with. And that's a consistent pattern and problem with the development and testing of this game. And that's part of what I mean when I say they do not listen. It's back to the analogy I made of being one the phone and going "uh huh, uh huh, mhmm" until the person stops talking and hangs up. Once the developers have made up their mind on something, they stop actively listening. Sure, they'll keep the discussion going, but not with any intention of actually considering any feedback.
And this thread, and my reactions, and criticisms, have all primarily been about how I feel that this was the state of their willingness to accept feedback from the start. There was never going to be serious consideration of dramatic changes. There was not going to be enough time for that. They knew the deadline was November. They chose to push it out for testing with only two weeks, because that's enough time to tweak numbers. People went into the testing with the assumption that there would time for testing. People put time into testing and providing feedback. What we got was an abrupt "okay that's done now, we don't have time for big changes. Maybe later."
Why? Was it that they thought it would be an easy win for a marquee feature to make the patch look more rich in content? Was it that they were so confident in their internal testing they couldn't fathom anyone being unhappy with their experimental new idea?
Was it that they are developing for the four people who have liked every post that speaks positively about the set and criticized people who are unhappy? Because you shouldn't develop for four people. You being part of that group of four people doesn't make your opinion more valid. It doesn't make you superior. Stop acting like it, please.-
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11 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:
Correct. If it is not to my liking, I will not watch it, just as I stopped watching Discovery after its first season. See how simple that is? Please contain your inflated sense of entitlement in the Sonic Melee thread. No need to play the wounded puppy.
Except you didn't. You posted "don't make any more of this, because I don't like it". It's not made for you. They aren't obligated to stop making them simply because you don't like the show.
And now I'm telling you, no, don't voice your opinion. Just shut up and don't consume the thing being created.
Like you suggest others do when they don't like things.
Do you see how annoying that is? That's what you sound like.-
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8 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:
I disagree. It is a bad thing and please, no more reboots. Star Trek had a very successful 18 year television run from 1987 to 2005 creating new series with new characters with their own stories to tell. We do not need yet another rehash of TOS or TNG.
If you don't like it, don't watch it.
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11 minutes ago, Ghost said:
So simple, and yet so difficult for some.I'm gonna start saying this any time they release powers that underperform numbers-wise. Or any time someone points out a potential bug.
That's just how they made it. If you don't like it, don't play it.
Better yet, don't give feedback at all. Just take everything unquestioningly. If you don't like it, don't play it.-
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2 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
We've known this for years. If you're referring to me, its unlikely you have my test account. You'd be surprised.
Are you claiming that nobody that provided negative feedback provided any data? No. But those that did are more likely to effectuate change.
I'd record sonic melee footage if it were not already stated no major changes would be made already, but additionally, let's not pretend that things have been handled objectively for the last few cycles. No major changes will be for the next few weeks. Changes are anticipated to be made after that.
I think white knighting behind the shield of being a moderator is a bad look, personally. I don't think I am doing that. *shrug*
On 11/18/2025 at 6:39 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:Yikes… been decades since I seen one of these high school style line by line replies.
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1 hour ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
I think I may have a different definition of "listen" than some of you. I consider listening is hearing and paying attention to what is being said. I submit that HC does indeed hear the complaints and critiques just as well as we hear the kudos and congrats.
Some may be thinking of "listen" like when a parent tells a child, "you better listen to what I am telling you!" Or something similar outside of a parent-child relationship. In my mind that goes beyond listening; that is "hear me and obey."
I admit that we aren't as good at the obey part.
I can see why you would see it that way. It's annoying and frustrating and disheartening to be told people don't like the things you're working on. It's always easy to see yourself positively and others negatively, when there are disagreements. Especially when you're the one in the position of power.
To me this situation is more like when someone is on the phone going "Uh huh. Uh huh. Mhm..." trying to make the conversation end so they can hang up and then immediately purge the interaction from their memory. You are technically listening. You hear the sounds. But you're not actually considering anything being said by the person on the phone. You're just letting them speak so it gets over with sooner. (Not you, specifically. The generic "you".)
Trying to choose my words carefully instead of speaking in broad strokes, because it is true that feedback has been listened to in the past. Even with Sonic Melee, things were adjusted to make the set more powerful, and there was an attempt to change Attune slightly. But it was always just number tweaks and small adjustments. There didn't seem to ever be an actual willingness to consider that the feature wasn't working on a conceptual level and might need to be changed to something else.
The speed that this set was put through both phases of testing makes it very hard to believe that there was a willingness to consider feedback that wasn't just bug reports and number tweaking. If the deadline was November, the set should have started testing much earlier in advance.
Saying "it's feature locked now, but still give feedback" doesn't mean much. Feedback is always accepted. There's a whole section of the forum for it. The issue is whether or not they actually consider it. To me that reads like "we know you don't like it, and you're free to keep complaining".23 minutes ago, Championess said:Well that can come down to the user giving specifics on what they would like to see the power do within a framework of what the devs are aiming for.
To give an example, on my alt moniker I had an extra suggestion to build on their TK revamp that seemed applicable since Levitate was already interacting with it. The original alteration to TK felt like the cake was baked but it needed just a bit of extra frosting for the right amount of oomph to make it an attractive power within MC. They felt it was good enough and shipped it to open beta where I gave my cut and dry take how it plays with melee style control players and it got the extra frosting.
I gave solutions to build on it a bit more. What I didn't do is flame to try to get my way, I offered to give it a proper critique within the playstyle of the powerset and let the chips fall how they decide.
This works if the what the devs are aiming for is always correct. But it's not. They should be willing to accept and admit that their ideas don't always work. The flaming started when it was made clear there was no plan to actually consider opinions on the set, other than tweaking numbers and minor fixes.
I'm not sure your example is equivalent to this situation. They spent a long time testing those changes. If my math and memory is correct, the changes were first brought up in October 2023. The patch with that revamp didn't come until February of 2024. That's months of testing. Even looking at a testing period for a brand new powerset for a more equivalent example. Pyrotechnic Control first started testing in February 2025. It was tested until June 2025. Four months.
They only spent two weeks on testing Sonic Melee before announcing it was feature locked (and will maybe get another look after it's released). That's what's frustrating about this.
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21 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
@Wravis, have you actually tried Sonic Melee on the test server?
And if so, when? Because it has gone through several changes.
I have, yes. Several redacted days during closed, and the first two days of open, and then again yesterday, and some more today. What I see, I feel, is a bandage over a broken bone. It's a patch up that doesn't fix the underlying issue.
That said... I'd go back through all of my posts and try to edit my tone to be less hostile if I could, but at this point it'd be pointless because I've already gotten on the nerves of the people who were meant to see my feedback.
If you can/would like to hide/delete this thread, that'd be ideal. But you can also leave it up so people can reference it when they want to point out how not to interact with the GM/Dev team.
Either way, some time in the near future I'll probably write a hopefully much more polite feedback post, to give my suggestions for what I feel is an ongoing issue regarding feedback and decision making. I'll wait until I'm less frustrated by my interactions during this testing period.
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1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:
Whomever CPC is, could use their help with some bugs!!!
Not taking your demand on a particular thing in the set does not mean we don't listen. You need to separate "you did not agree with me" from "you don't listen".
Every page of feedback on the Focused Feedback thread, and nearly every person giving feedback on attune on Discord, stated that attune is an awkward, clunky feature, that, at best, is something they'll skip or suffer with, at worst, makes people not want to play the set at all. It's not about you disagreeing with me. It's everyone echoing the same sentiment.
1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:For one, I literally said to keep the feedback coming. There will be more changes in the post-launch update. Does that mean changing the toggle thing? Maybe, maybe not. Mostly depends on what potential new engine tech can be added, or what unused techniques can be leveraged to get the desired results.
Telling us to keep the feedback coming, after stating "we're pushing this through, no big changes will be made" is very contradictory. Especially given how rushed through the set was, compared to everything else that was being tested. It's hard to trust that any feedback will be considered, when this set was so rushed out the door. One week of closed beta. One week of open beta. Two weeks of you refusing to consider that maybe Attune as a feature is not working out. You stated you have a vision for the set, and dug your heels in.1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:You turn a blind eye to it, but some players have enjoyed the core idea and have provided positive reactions after the multiple iterations to improve on it.
You turn a blind eye to the MAJORITY of players stating the opposite. It's easy to ignore the negative feedback and latch on the positive. This is your creation. You want to see the positive. It's hard to hear that people don't like something you made. But if you're going to claim "some players have enjoyed it" to dismiss the overwhelming majority, you need to reevaluate how you handle feedback.
1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:The most negative reaction was on Attune's own strength being boosted by the T1 and T2, or the boost to other powers also requiring their use. That has been entirely removed. Attune itself is now a single click unlock for the set's mechanics. A toggle Disintegrate that you only need to click once if you will. It being a toggle allows for a smoother interaction between the power and Fury and other AT inherent abilities like team crit bonuses on stalkers or crit fluctuations from whatever source on a scrapper. It also allows for procs to potentially passively trigger every 10s, and prevents the need to be regularly spamming an attack to re-establish the set's mechanic on a hard target.
These are things that simply can't happen on a click mechanic driver.
Although there are still some dislike on toggles in general, the main issues have been addressed (visual feedback, cooldown after shutdown, shutdown due to moving too far, etc).
You personally don't need to love every set. We are never going to make every set be loved by everyone.
No. You have it reversed. Most of the negative reactions were about how awkward it is to have a single target toggle power in a melee set. It doesn't work well. It doesn't feel good to play. It makes for a bad level up experience.
And if your desired feature doesn't work well due to game limitations, it's time to consider a new feature that does work, instead of forcing a bad one through.1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:We do push for some minimum and maximum performance levels, but the playstyle to get there is not going to be the same for every set. We will aim to broaden a set's appeal as much as we can, so long it does not sacrifice set uniqueness in the process.
This is the sentiment that makes it feel like you do not listen as a consistent pattern, and not just regarding Sonic Melee, and attune.
This is the same sentiment you used to defend how awful Storm Blast felt to play. You were so proud of your ramp up design. The storm building. Even though the majority of players who tested it said it felt bad to play in groups, because it took too long and was too stationary. But you refused to budge on the grounds that "it makes the set unique".
Being unique made it not fun. And you went back and changed it to make things mobile, and reduce the ramp up, because it turns out all of those people who said it felt bad to play were right.1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:As for the feature lock: a lot of the team have families and, well, lives. Thanksgiving is coming in the US, as well as many holidays globally. Update cycles [to live] become nearly impossible for that period. We might still have continued open beta development happen, although likely at a slower iteration pace since, as I just noted: people will be taking time to spend with their families.
Why did you push this set through so rapidly if you knew there was a short deadline? Why not wait to test it out for the next patch? The way it was handled makes it seem like you never had any intention of considering feature changes. One week of closed and one week of open beta testing? When other sets spent months being worked on and tested.
If you needed it to be ready by the end of November, you should have started testing it when the other sets were starting testing.-
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14 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
Words have meanings. The statement I quoted was you stating as fact, and a quote even, that "we're done listening." That's not at all what he said. He said the opposite of that. Your statement is obviously and provably false. You should stop doing that. As far as ignoring you . . . I think I will ignore you . . . at least for the rest of tonight.
Optics are important. When we're told "give feedback, I swear we're listening" and then the same day we're told "feedback's done for now, we'll get back to it at a later time", it reads like "this is done now. No more reason to give feedback".
And it especially stings when the feedback period was so short, and the feedback given was the same sentiment throughout.-
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8 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
You should stop stating things that are obviously and provably false. The quote above shows that CPC is still welcoming feedback and anticipates additional changes.
Sometimes the boss tells you to stop making changes, so you stop making changes for now and fix it later.
You should read everything I'm saying and not just fixate on the things you think you can hit me with a 'gotcha' to shut me down.
One of my pieces of feedback in this thread is that a design philosophy of "we're not taking your feedback now because we need to release this, we'll fix it later" is terrible.
8 minutes ago, LightMaster said:Wravis does make a point on devs needing to pay more attention to feedback.
But if the feedback is presented in an aggressive tone, or if disagreeing with what the others said without proving it? Then we run into a problem of aggressive feedback that can put far more stress to the devs than they already got.
I got aggressive because people are being ignored. And then told they are not being ignored.
Getting feedback that is consistently saying "this thing is not good" and having it not be addressed, and sped through to the next phase, and then getting the SAME feedback, and speeding it through to release, IS ignoring feedback.
It does NOT mean they never listen to any feedback ever. But it's ignoring feedback.-
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3 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:
Emphasis added.
What are you emphasizing that for?
"We're releasing it in an unpopular, bad state. We'll fix it later." Is a terrible development philosophy.-
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3 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
I invite everyone to read the thread you linked, especially our discussion, and make up their own minds.
I invite everyone to check it out, see you saying "we listen" and then be followed up by your co-dev saying "we're done listening" the next page.
It was two weeks of testing. One in closed beta. One in open. How much listening could you have actually done? You're not fooling anyone.-
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1 minute ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
Your post was hidden because it did not belong in focused feedback and, as I have already discussed with you, listening to feedback is not the same thing as making whatever change or changes any player or group of players is asking for.
Just about everything new gets changed based on player feedback.
These types of complaints typically will not result in getting anything changed.
If you want to effect change, try the content. Tell us why you like it or dislike it. Provide data to back up your position.
But you go on and tilt at your windmill of "Homecoming doesn't listen to feedback."
That's not what happened at all.
I listed my complaints. I compiled a list of the same complaints given by other testers. They were the common sentiment. Those same complaints were echoed throughout all of the (very short) testing period.
You got focused on me saying "they don't listen to feedback" and tried to dismiss the criticism with semantics of "we listen to other feedback" when I was clearly discussing the feedback about Sonic Melee, and Attune specifically.
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This is ridiculous.
Deleting posts that criticize your unwillingness to listen to feedback is ridiculous.
Fast-tracking your powerset through closed beta, then open beta, while ignoring the overwhelmingly negative feedback, is a bad look.
Putting out a powerset with the disclaimer "we'll fix it later" is nuts. Why push it out if you know it's not working well?
It's okay to postpone the release of things when they aren't working.-
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1 hour ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
*This is Wravis' abbreviated reinterpretation of the quotes I listed from the Patch Notes*
Here are clips from the patch notes regarding Sonic Melee from Monday to Friday. It's not like it hasn't been changing.
11-10-25 - Attune introduced
11-11-25 - Detoggle range adjustment
11-12-25 - Made a click power
11-13-25 - Made a click power for real this time
11-14-25 - Fixed it breaking hide
11-14-25 - Fixed it breaking hide for real this time.
But attune was made a toggle again, right? I don't see anything changing attune that wasn't undone.
And it doesn't change the fact that it's a core power that feels really awkward to use. It addresses part of one of the concerns. But then it was undone, anyway. -
15 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
You started by saying we (Homecoming) do not listen to feedback. Not just on sonic melee, but at all. At least now you are admitting that some changes were made to sonic in closed beta, presumably based on feedback. Additional changes have been made in open beta based on feedback. People didn't like the toggle so it was made a click. Unfortunately, the way the click was set up was causing other problems so it was reverted to a toggle. By the way, have you seen the latest patch notes on Sonic Melee?
And it is certainly possible if not probable that additional changes will be made
It's fine for you to say you don't like it, that's it's terrible, that you will never play it. It's not OK to say we ignore feedback, because that is demonstrably untrue. Do we make stuff that everyone always likes. Hell no, we don't. I'm not sure if that is even possible. For every player that says we are nerfing this or that there's another saying we have too much power creep and another saying we are making things too hard. We can't please everyone so we don't try, EXCEPT that we do try to add a variety of things so that everyone can at least find something that they like in each release.
I, like Shin, appreciate that you took the time to compile all of that.
However, @Shin Magmus, I don't appreciate you bringing up your past grievances here when I just asked folks not to. Start another thread outside of focused feedback if you want to. Not here.
2 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:You'd have to show me the math - how do you get to 50%+1?.
And again, hearing your feedback is different from agreeing with it and making changes in accordance with that feedback. I think it is accurate to say that we do not follow most of the advice given. If for no other reason that the advice given by different players is frequently contradictory.
But we are getting off topic again. What do you like . . . or not like . . . about Sonic Melee? Have you tried it? What did you do? What happened?
I know this is technically feedback about the (perceived?) lack of listening to feedback by the Homecoming Team, but I'll tailor it specifically to Sonic Melee, so hopefully it's not crossing any lines.
I was, speaking generally because I do feel as though in general, feedback is by and large ignored. But I was also saying it, specifically, because it is a major issue with Sonic Melee. It might not be as prevalent or egregious at other times, but it is a consistent pattern of behavior that is really showing itself during the testing/feedback period of THIS SET.
I can go through all of the feedback on the discord, and the forums, of people commenting on Attune, if that's needed. If it's truly not being ignored, and just missed. But it's plainly obvious that the overwhelming majority of people do not like how attune works. It is clunky. It is counter intuitive. It forces uncomfortable power choices just to make it work. It creates a very underwhelming, frustrating level up experience.
It's been stated over and over again. Attune is unpopular. Not all constructive criticism is about giving good, viable suggestions to fix what isn't working. Sometimes it can just be saying "this is bad, and isn't working". Then it's up to the creator to figure out how to fix it, or if it has to be scrapped. Some people have offered suggestions. Some just point out they don't like it. Both are valid.
Yes, some people enjoy it. They are a very very small minority. And I am willing to go through and collate the feedback to prove it, if you (the homecoming team) are going to claim you see otherwise. Latching on to the smallest amount of praise and ignoring the overwhelming criticism is not uncommon. It's natural to want to hear the positive feedback when you are proud of your ideas and creations. But that is not going to create a fun experience for players. Sometimes you have to step back and admit your big idea isn't working.-
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On 11/15/2025 at 1:22 PM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
Untrue. Many changes are made every page in closed and open beta, and sometimes even live, based on player feedback. But sometimes we hear you and disagree.
This is a focused feedback thread on Sonic Melee. Please keep your focus on the set. Opinions are fine. "I like/dislike it because ______ " is great. "I tested and found _______" is even better. Complaining about the past does not belong here. You can start a new thread for that if you wish.
AFAIK we're not allowed to discuss closed beta outside of closed beta, but since you brought it up, no. Very few changes were made in closed beta because Sonic Melee was fast-tracked with only a single week of testing. And the consensus then was the same as the consensus now. Attune is not fun. It's not a good power. It's interesting, but it doesn't work well in practice.
And that's the same feedback you're getting in open beta too. But heels are being dug in, because it's a pet project with a specific unassailable vision.
In case you're having trouble finding the ignored feedback.
On 11/10/2025 at 6:02 PM, Alchemystic said:Attune seems as though it's in a very perculiar place, it's feels like a combination of Follow Up (Claws), Molten Embrace (Fiery Aura) and Power Siphon (Kinetic Melee), while also having to compete internally with Sound Booster as the means of increasing the damage output of the set (albiet one that is far more restrictive). Not only that, but it's another gimmick ontop of the already present 'Migriane' mechanic which should probably be the focus here instead, as it already was present in Sonic Assault and works just fine as is.
SNIP
All in all, the rest of the powerset seems fine, it's just unfortunately burdened by being pulled in too many directions at once. I think if we want it to thrive, we need to focus attention on streamlining it, and that means getting rid of the dead weight.On 11/10/2025 at 9:12 PM, Sarigar said:I'll say it as I said it on CB : Attune need more interactions outside the T1/T2. Tying the set's mechanic to two incredibly low impact abilities around Attune which is janky in itself to reapply in moment to moment game play feels terrible.
On 11/10/2025 at 9:31 PM, Kaika said:Bringing it into a mission though, I'm not really a fan of attune, I don't think it's *bad* or anything but for all the effort you have to put into it, it really didn't feel all that impactful, especially with AS and crits in the mix, It's the kinda thing where the numbers probably add up to it being worth it, but just barely, but that's only a hunch, I'm sure someone will do the math. Honestly I think it would be alot better as just a melee based DoT toggle with no other interactions, thats already really unique and something thats not in the game, the interactions with the T1 and T2 just feel like they over-complicate things and sorta force you into taking powers that are normally somewhat skippable. It kinda feels like the old tank gauntlet issue again, and I would rather the T1 and T2 be strong enough to stand on their own then have to have this awkward interaction to make them worth it, as they feel very weak on their own.
Another issue I was having was losing my attune target in the mix of things, there is no VFX on the main target effected which makes them really easy to lose if you are switching around targets. Sure yo u can see damage numbers over their heads, but in alot of situations it's still hard to line it up, specially if it's a group like council and many of the enemies look identical. Also on stalker I kept having a issue with the DoT damage would cause the enemy to quickly start fleeing forcing me to chase or lose attune, which kinda just sucks, since it would happen very quickly. This isn't a issue unique to sonic melee, but it feels worse since you lose attune and have to set it up again.
All and all it works fine, just feels really over-complicated single target DPS wise, and not really great in normal misions due to how much setup it needs. AoE feels great at least. It's current state is fine, but I don't think I'd play it.
On 11/11/2025 at 12:37 PM, Shin Magmus said:Did anybody ask for a melee set with a single-target toggle that you have to put on the enemy repeatedly? Anyone? Does anyone like this idea? Put me down as a hard "No" for Attune as it currently works: not fun.
On 11/11/2025 at 12:22 PM, Psi-bolt said:My first and biggest piece of feedback is that Attune needs to change. I get the idea behind it. When I read the descriptions, I wanted to play the set in the early game to see how it performs and it's very effective, but feels incredibly off. First it is incredibly clunky. It seems you want us to initiate with Attune, then the T1/T2 to juice the DoT damage. That's great on bosses, but you're switching targets a lot in the early game. I will say that I really liked in when doing the early King's Row arcs with the Elite Bosses. Fury plus Attune just melted them. Later game it falls off. But there's still the need to move it around constantly.
As for the rest of the set, I'll have more to say, but I like that Clap is worth taking, that's a really good cone. The AoE is great. I think this has the potential to be a really popular set, but the feel of Attune is holding it back IMO.
On 11/11/2025 at 12:55 PM, JKwervo said:As a player, why in the HECK do I want to manage toggles as a MELEE set?
As a Melee character, im not looking to do the same damn things as a debuffing defender/controller, etc does. I go in, smack, taunt, smack some more smack harder, and smack even more hard.
This set is just mind boggling. It is NOT good. The system, the mechanic, to me, is just NOT WORTH the time and effort because why? It's not fun.
On 11/11/2025 at 3:16 PM, High_Beam said:Okay so yeah, Attune is clunky as hell. Still testing but its annoying. Reapplying is a PITA, an unnecessary PITA.
On 11/11/2025 at 4:27 PM, Lockpick said:I'm playing a Sonic / Psionic Stalker. I'm only lvl 12 at the moment, but my early impressions are not so good (unfortunately). I don't like the Attune mechanic or the DOT nature of the attacks. Maybe it gets better.
On 11/11/2025 at 6:39 PM, Sovera said:Attune is annoying to reapply but it does do upfront damage (not a lot though, around 40 damage as a level 50). The upfront damage does compensate for the reapplying since it is the same as just hitting the target, and then each subsequent hit is boosting the DoT.
The problem with DoTs is the quick nature of the game. We rarely go into a group of enemies and take more than 30 seconds to lay them all down between BUs and AoEs. So, outside of pylons where we place the toggle once and don't need to re-apply the quick nature means having to reapply all the time on low HP enemies like anything under a boss.
On 11/12/2025 at 4:24 AM, JayboH said:I also find it interesting and I like having sets play differently too. Retoggling 16 times a mob is not fun for some of us and we are giving feedback as requested.
On 11/12/2025 at 9:05 AM, Psi-bolt said:Back to the topic. I've tried this on every AT now, and I've come to the conclusion that Attune just isn't fun so I decided not to take it or respec out of it once I have a decent attack chain. I started a Scrapper as the last test and just didn't take Attune at all. I'm sure that there was some DPS loss in the early game, but I can't say I missed it much. After getting to 20, I leveled instantly to 50 and at high levels, Strident, Sandman and Earsplitter was a more than sufficient attack chain for me.
If some folks dig Attune, then more power to them. I think the set is fun and will be leveling it on live.
On 11/12/2025 at 12:34 PM, drbuzzard said:However as others have mentioned, the fact that the set is very reliant on DoT means it doesn't really front load and much of the damage will be wasted on steamrolling teams unless you are on a hard target like at least an EB or AV. The T1 and T2 attacks feel fairly soft by themselves and only really serve to charge that DoT (which is good when it gets going, but doesn't mean much on soft stuff). I'd prefer it if they got some love since right now they are among the most feeble early attacks among stalkers.
My approach to use is ignore the toggle nature of attune, and just keep attacking with it on a give hard target.
On 11/12/2025 at 12:54 PM, Lazarus said:Spent some time on a brute, the set as a hole is the same as all other sets, 4-5 single target attacks a cone and an aoe.
What irritated me was the constant reapplying of ATTUNE.
My suggestion, make it a toggle in which any target hit by the T1 or T2 attack has a short 10-15 second dot applied. That way it can be applied to more than 1 target and is easier to use.
On 11/12/2025 at 1:21 PM, Championess said:I'm most interested in the stalker/scrapper version which I trust people are giving it a good testing to find quirks. The one thing I do agree with though is tying the attune gimmick to both first attacks.
Conceptually it sounds neat if not a bit extra management. After you get a few attacks in your chain those first 2 attacks get to be awful weak. I'd only take and set mule the t2 attack and rarely use it in any attack chain, I could never imagine having the room to take and use both the t1 and t2 attack unless the later attacks are truly awful, which would be a whole other issue. Depending how strong this attune thing is I'd find better functionality afforded the set if the t1 attack and a later attack were able to benefit from attune.
This is just a suggestion purely from a general build efficiency standpoint.
On 11/14/2025 at 2:43 PM, WindDemon21 said:That's part of the problem. The tier 1/2 are, and should generally be a "get now to level and respec it out later for better damage" powers. They should NEVER be a requirement for a set's mechanic to work (yes there is dual blades but thats another issue). We learned this issue with opportunity on sentinels, so it still boggles my mind it was ever even implemented like this.
As it is now you do have to take all 5 powers to maximize the ST damage. and you use only attune and sonic thrust once for the whole duration of the single target kill, so ends up being really way too invested in slots and powers for two powers you basically don't even use, which again, it makes more sense for attune to just be more of a self toggle that adds more damage the more you use any sonic attack on the same enemy (similar to -resistance but instead of debuffing resistance increasing the damage your sonic powers do to the target). Then still the issue of sandman's whisper being on too short of a rech/damage value which is also odd, having 3 other attacks that are 6s or less, as well as the same issue with sonic clap. There is just so much wrong with the stats on the powers in this set, hopefully it's fixed before it goes live.
3 hours ago, Catalyze said:I tried this power set after doing a Live/Beta direct leveling comparison on MMs (which makes me sad to park them next to my Plant Controller). At level 1 -5 things fell over
with Attune applied before or after any of the other 2 Required or It Don't Work Attacks. Next I ran the Shauna arc in Kings Row at 17. I tried it on a +1 X 2 setting. I gave up
and deleted the toon. I spent my attack time applying DOTs and re applying DOTs.... While waiting for the DOTs to slowly defeat anything, you are getting wailed on with
full damage. On a Scrapper, I don't want to play like a World of Warcraft Warlock. I want things to take damage fast.... in large chunks....and fall over. I want to be a Fury
Warrior with blood lust not a Apply DOTs......Tab enemies to see who needs more DOTs..... Mezzing stops damage but this "gimmick" of :
Step 1. Apply T1
Step 2. Apply T2
Step 3. Apply (toggle now or not depending on day) Attune
Step 4. Ignore all the other enemies wailing on you because at level 17 your target isn't dead yet and the other 5 are mezzed (hopefully) or knocked down (hopefully it hit
all of them)
Step 5. Don't think about Axe....Frost...etc all the other Scrapper attacks that leave things defeated in faster times. Nope, just stand here toggling away with your DOTs in a
powerset that I refer to as Road Rage Karen screaming at some perceived slight to you giving other enemy motorists a migraine.
Character deleted at 17 and power set left for more talented players.
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6 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:
We "let them cook" increasingly convoluted gimmick sets every fucking update. Think about the context in which Sonic Melee is getting this feedback, it comes after 3 or 4 failed gimmick sets that people do not like. Seismic Blast's gimmicks still don't even work correctly.
This. 100%.
They do not listen to feedback. They release their pet projects how they want them because they have a vision, and then after a year when people don't use their failed experiments, THEN they go back and address the concerns people brought up during testing. Or they just abandon the project and move on, leaving things half baked.
See: Storm Blast ramp up issues, Labyrinth of Fog lack of meaningful rewards/incentives issues.
They're cooking but only for themselves.-
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Listen to Feedback: Sonic Melee Not Ready
in Suggestions & Feedback
Posted
Responding because you're putting words in my mouth.
There's a wide gamut of options when acknowledging a poor decision was made, that don't include "make a public statement and commit to a specific set of rules to abide by in the future". I never suggested they make a public statement of apology.