Wravis
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Posts posted by Wravis
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1 hour ago, Faultline said:
We regularly get complaints that people in Closed Beta "decide everything" and the changes are presented to Open Beta as a done deal, with no community input. There have been persistent calls for all development to be done in the open. With Page 3 being done right before the holidays, and the dev team supposed to be on December break (really guys, you can stop pushing commits already) this presented the opportunity to push all the changes currently in the works to Open Beta, regardless of level of polish, to get the larger community involved, gather feedback, and decide what features could be fast-tracked before Page 4.
There was no scenario where all the changes in the December patch were going to stay. I treated it just like any other Experimental patch; any of the changes could be heavily modified or taken out at any time. But this was not communicated properly to the players, who expected this to be any regular Open Beta patch where things are set in stone. This was a major failure of communication which is entirely my fault.
The good news is that the features that didn't get yanked out are most likely going to hit Live much, much earlier than they otherwise would have. The bad news is that a lot of players are taking the reversions personally or blaming other players for it, which is not acceptable.
Still getting early feedback was very valuable, and we might try this again, but only with changes that are less likely to be reverted. I strongly advise people who like to try things early and provide feedback while understanding that nothing is final to apply to Closed Beta and provide feedback there.
I honestly appreciated this approach, even if the communication wasn't executed well. It's understandable, because of the holiday.
I think a more open feedback phase is better.
Hopefully the changes aren't gone for good.
I do think this does show a pretty big disconnect the homecoming team has with regards to telling the truth when making unpopular decisions.
Sonic Melee was fast tracked and rushed out while still in an unpopular state, with the reasoning being that development was going to stop for the holidays, and the team wanted it released so people could test it on live.
Development hasn't slowed down whatsoever. Testing has continued on test servers.
Now you're saying this past open beta patch was meant to utilize the non-existent development break as a time for players to test things. But on the test server...
In my opinion, you need to pick one. Release changes to live, so players can test, or put it on open beta, so players can test. One of those is a test server. I think it's pretty clear which on should be used for testing.
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If you don't like it don't play it.
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Can we get some kind of texture/pattern update on... like a lot of things in the costume creator? Seeing all of the reskins come out lately makes me think there's at least one person on the Dev team now that has the ability to edit costume pieces. Though, I'm not sure if it's just the ability to re-texture/re-skin, or if they can create all new models. The latter sounds like a much bigger ask, so I'm going to separate my suggestions that way.
Also, while I know there's already threads requesting new costume pieces, and I will include some, this is primarily compiling a list of existing costume pieces I think deserve an update/fix.
I've tried to break down the costume issues into the following categories:
Tops With Skin Opacity
Poor Pattern Alignment
Rough Lines/Textures
Disconnected Patterns/Shapes
Easy Alternates
The most egregious category, in my opinion, is Female Body > Tops With Skin, so I'll start with that.
Fix Tops With Skin Opacity
My suggestion isn't to replace what's currently implemented, but to add an alternate version with 100% opacity. That way people who've been utilizing the pieces for their costumes as they currently are won't have their characters altered.
Just add it to the 2nd option that currently shows, but has No Selection Available.
Using the tee option as an example. As it is right now, a large majority of the Tops with Skin pieces have a wet t-shirt/sheer fabric/semi see through coloration. This has its uses, but it's frustrating for many reasons. For one, you can't wear light colored t-shirts without it blending with the skin tone. That's awkward.
Second, when trying to create certain seamless costumes, there will always be a jarring texture mismatch between the top and gloves, and bottoms, because gloves and bottoms are opaque, whereas most tops with skin are slightly transparent.
Here's a list of the Tops With Skin pieces that have thewet t-shirt contest winningtransparent opacity:- Bikini
- Angelic
- Assassin
- Athletic
- Bandeau
- Bandeau Sleeve
- Baroque
- Belly Tee Long
- Belly Tee Short
- Blast
- Blocks
- Desire
- Disco
- Eden
- Excess
- Fade Line
- Fire Stripe
- Frost
- Hacker
- Heart
- Horns
- Jungle
- Jungle Sheer
- Keyhole
- Keyhole Sheer
- Mesh
- Mod
- Mod Sleeve
- Savage
- Sport
- Strapless
- Straps 1
- Straps 2
- Tanker
- Think Stripes
- Tee
- Thorns
- V
- V Deep
- V Neck
Next Category Suggestion!
Fix Poor Pattern Alignment
Multiple costume patterns do not line up with their corresponding patterns on different body parts. I don't think this really needs to be explained as to why it's a bother that should be fixed.
An example of this is Heart tops, and Heart bottoms.
The mesh doesn't align between the top and bottom pieces.
The mesh also doesn't align with Mesh Top and Heart Bottoms
Here is a list of the pattern mismatches I could find. I may have missed some. There's a lot of patterns.
Female Body Type Only:- Metal (Tops With Skin), Metal (Bottoms With Skin)
- Witch Bare (Tops with Skin), Witch Bare (Bottoms With Skin)
- Witch Lace (Tops With Skin), Witch Lace (Bottoms with Skin), Witch Lace (Smooth/Bare Gloves)
- Carnival of Light (Tops With Skin), Carnival of Light 1 (Bottoms With Skin)
- Labeaux 1 (Tops with Skin, Labeaux (Bottoms With Skin)
- Labeaux 2 (Tops with Skin), Leabeaux (Bottoms with Skim
All Body Types:- Camo (Top), Camo (Bottom), Camo (Gloves), Camo (Boots)
- Cellular (Top), (Cellular (Bottom), Cellular (Gloves, Cellular (Boots)
- Checker (Top), Checker (Bottom)
- Cheetah 1 (Top), Cheetah 1 (Bottom), Cheetah 1 (Gloves), Cheetah 1 (Boots)
- Circles (Top), Circles (Bottom), Circles (Gloves), Circles (Boots)
- Circuitry (Top), Circuitry (Bottom)
- Electricity (Top), Electricity (Bottom) *This one is different in that the color of the pattern on the Top shifts the color of the base color, but the bottom does not
- Googie (Top), Googie (Bottom)
- Lines (Top), Lines (Bottom), Lines (Gloves), Lines (Boots)
- Mesh (Top), Mesh (Bottom), Mesh (Gloves), Mesh (Boots)
- Psyche (Top), Psyche (Bottom), Psyche (Gloves), Psyche (Boots)
- Scales (Top), Scales (Bottom), Scales (Gloves), Scales (Boots)
- Malaise (Top), Malaise (Bottom)
Fix Rough Lines/Textures
Some of the patterns look nice and clean and decently high res. Others look like compressed to death. Some others just look messy.
For example:
The bottom line of the Sport Tops With Skin option is jagged, for whatever reason. It looks terrible.
Patterns that could use a clean up or high-res update are:
Female Only:- Mod (Top Only)
- Sport (Top Only)
All Body Types:- Arctic
- Camo
- Camo Paint (Top Only)
- Cellular
- Celtic
- Chains (Top Only)
- Cheetah 1
- Circles
- Dagger
- Lightning
- Magic
- Pattern 1 (Top Only)
- Pattern 4 (Top Only)
- Pattern 5 (Top Only)
- Psych
- Shredding
- Sinister
- Sport (Top Only)
- Tiger 2
- Y (Top Only)
Fix Disconnected Pattern/Shapes
Another issue with several patterns and pieces is an unfinished/disconnect pattern or shape within the same costume piece. It seems to be a particularly common issue on the sides and under the arms of top patterns.
For example, It's especially silly and noticeable on the Thin Stripes chest pattern when used as a Tops with Skin. The stripes on the front don't align with the stripes on the back. The arm strips are detached from the body stripes, and there's a tiny sliver of a stripe at the end of the arm for no reason.
The costume patterns/pieces I've found that have this same issue are:
Female Only:- Hacker
- Leather (Tops with Skin)
- Metal (Tops with Skin)
- Carnival of Light (Tops with Skin)
Chest:- Fade Line
- Horns
- Thin Stripes
- Camo
- Cellular
- Checker
- Cheetah 1
- Cheetah 2
- Claws
- Circles
- Fat Stripe 1
- Googie
- Jaws
- Leopard
- Lines
- Mesh
- Pattern 4
- Psych
- Scales
- Sinister
- Straps
- Thin Stripe 1
- Tiger 1
- Vandal
Add Easy Alternates
Back to the T-shirt. One thing that's been missing for whatever reason, is a t-shirt with a collar, on the female body type. The male body's t-shirt option has a collar, and t-shirt texture. Girls need that, too.
These additions don't require modeling new bulky costume pieces. Just adding a pattern or texture to what already exists. Put some extra length on Briefs for men, and BAM, you have boxers, or (tight) shorts. Something that is desperately needed.
Suggested Additions:
Female Body:- Tee with Collar
- Incandescent's Top
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Non-plunging neckline top with skin long sleeved shirts
Male Body:
- Raglan Sleeved (baseball) T-shirt
- Crop Top
- Shorts
- Boxer-Briefs
- Boxers
- Stubble/5 o'clock shadow
All Body Types:- Long Sleeved T-shirt
- Patterned T-shirt (shirt with the chest patterns overlay)
- Different Style Sneakers
- Loafers
- Flip Flops
- Office Belt that looks like the owner took care of the leather and didn't fight a war wearing it,
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34 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:
I don't see any feedback in this thread supporting the homogenezation trend. Shouldn't that be pretty explicit player feedback that the changes to bin these powers in to homogenized categories is not supported?
QuoteHomecoming listens to feedback.
I've never seen in any other free game, (let alone in any paid game), someone from the development team respond to a reported bug or issue in real time, post a patch to fix it, then re-engage with the person who reported it to check if that issue was resolved. That's insane by itself, but add in that neither myself or the developer are paid to do either of those things and we both have other obligations, and it's a miracle to me. It might even be foolish because now that's the standard that I expect working with the Homecoming Team - but it works both ways. I'm not going to waste their time with garbage knee jerk patch note rants because there are plenty of posters who do that already in these forums and Discord. They should expect from me, and anyone else who participates in testing, the same level of passion and effort that players expect of them.
And that's my opinion.
Emphasis added.
So you only run victory laps and tell people to stop giving negative feedback when the developers' decisions align with your preference? When they don't follow YOUR negative feedback, they don't listen.
I'm glad they are making the generally skippable/unusable powers more usable. Even if it's at the cost of some of the overperforming powers being made less effective.-
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1 hour ago, Dispari said:
Theme-wise I don't quite get how sonic would protect you from toxic damage. Psionics I would buy if you go with some sort of psychic energy/wavelength/synapse sci-fi jargon but I'm not sure how being noisy saves you from a snake bite or chemical spill.
Shout so loud it vibrates the toxins out. Or the well documented phenomena where swearing when you hurt yourself actually reduces the pain you feel.
Nah, I agree. It seems weird logically. But we've thrown out logic for sonic power sets already.-
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They only tested Sonic Melee for a week on Closed Beta, and a week on Open Beta (before announcing it was feature locked.)
Most other things were tested for much longer. Some things have been tested for months and still weren't ready in time.
They pick and choose what they actually want input on.-
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Should probably put the new, locked costume pieces in the Costumes section so it's not confusing and seemingly hidden.
Aren't there 19 new reskinned pieces added too?-
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9 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:
2) You are literally asking them to make a public statement that they were wrong.
Like come the hell on, Wravis. You can't talk out both sides of your mouth, here.
"They should, at least, acknowledge that it was a bad decision". Your words, my guy.
Responding because you're putting words in my mouth.
There's a wide gamut of options when acknowledging a poor decision was made, that don't include "make a public statement and commit to a specific set of rules to abide by in the future". I never suggested they make a public statement of apology. -
Yeah. It's turned more into a debate about our differing philosophies regarding how to run community testing, development deadlines, and the benefits of speaking out against things you don't like.
Which is probably giving poor GooglyMoogly a migraine.
I'm going to stop for now. It's the same people telling me I'm wrong over and over. We're not going to agree. The thread was thoroughly derailed, and it was never on sturdy rails to begin with.-
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28 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:
EDIT: By the way I've read that feedback thread. There is nothing being posted in there that can't be fixed after a release. No game breaking bug, nothing that crashes the server, no missing powers on any AT that has the set. Nothing posted to me means the set can't be released. It being underpowered on some ATs DOES NOT in my opinion mean it needs to be delayed.
Did you miss all of the people who don't like having a single target toggle in melee set that requires you to take the first two attacks in the set to make full use of it?
1 minute ago, golstat2003 said:At this point post your feedback and keep posting your feedback about the set. And then after thanksgiving when they get back to making further changes and releasing them to OB, test some more and give further feedback.
That's the best solution here. You're not being told to shut up.
What you're being told is that the set is not going to be delayed and further changes will be made after it's released.
Aside from Glacier Peak, Shard Warrior, Ghost, Championess, and now you and Steampunkette repeatedly telling not to give my opinion and just accept their decisions, yeah. No one is telling me to shut up.
Do you want me to make a new thread and remove "Sonic Melee Is Not Ready" from the title so you're not confused about the fact that this thread isn't specific to Sonic Melee? Maybe I should title it "Make Better Decisions and Reconsider How You Respond to Criticism So People Don't Feel Disinclined To Test New Features" because "Listen to Feedback" is easy to purposely misconstrue as claiming they don't see comments.-
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3 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:
And hey, that feedback can be useful NEXT TIME.
But right now it's spitting in your palm. You can do it, and the spit had a purpose in your mouth. But now it's just there.
As far as acknowledging it or agreeing with it: They -really- shouldn't. Like if this were just an interpersonal dispute and they felt you were right and whatever, sure.
But once it hits a company level there are two very good reasons they shouldn't acknowledge or agree publicly off the top of my head:
1) It Might not be Their Decision to Make
Captain Powerhouse may not have been the one who decided that Sonic Melee should get such a brief test and have no control over it. Acknowledging or agreeing with you, publicly, results in a mark against the people who made that decision. Both causing friction between members of a very small team of volunteers (risking fracture) and opening themself up for response. Maybe it was a member of the City Council saying "This patch is too small without a powerset. Throw one in!" and Captain Powerhouse responded "Sonic Melee is the closest to ready for launch, but it needs more time" and the Council said "Do it, anyway, you can do some more changes later, just get it out the door!" and left Captain Powerhouse with no alternatives.
2) It Limits Their Options in the Future
While they might recognize you're right (assuming you are), internally, making a public statements means making a fixed position for Homecoming that they can't, later, go back on without being targeted with accusations of hypocrisy, lying, or otherwise going back on "Their Word". If they've got a set that really doesn't need extensive testing (say, an assault set made up of powers that already exist in the game that really only needs a short balance pass to make sure the values are accurate) they'd be forced to 'wait' until the start of the next patch cycle to get it briefly tested.
So... yeah. Give them some grace, acknowledge that there may be reasons or information you don't know, register your discontent and then move on rather than continuing to focus on the negativity. It's healthier in the long run for you and the community.
1) Do you think that is a good, productive way to create content for a game? Rush it out to hit arbitrary deadlines you've set for yourself, and fix it later? This is a game. The Homecoming team isn't a group of infallible higher beings who can't be seen as flawed or it'll risk societal collapse. Acknowledging mistakes isn't a weakness. Stubbornly refusing to admit mistakes is.
I don't think that is a good way to develop content. So I am voicing my opinion. And people keep telling me to shut up. Stop telling me to shut up.
2) I agree, they shouldn't make a fixed statement about the length required to test things. I'm not suggesting they should. But this was an entirely new set with new feature mechanics, that deserved more time.
I registered my discontent, and keep getting told to shut up.4 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:There have been BIG changes over the years that I've disagreed with. Sometimes coming to arguments with others in CB (less so in OB). I've learned years ago that it's best to just post your feedback and just move on. HC will do things that we agree with and disagree with eventually. That is inevitable.
At this point it's not even the Homecoming Team that's the problem. It's the group of people who keep high fiving each other and repeating each other telling me and people who are unhappy to be quiet. Stop telling people who have complaints to be quiet.
Why ask for feedback if the stance will be "if you don't like it, too bad"? I don't think that's the Homecoming team's policy, but I do think that it's the route that tends to be taken because it's easier to accept the praise and ignore the criticism. And I think it's a pattern through a lot of testing. Hence why I pointed it out. Hence why multiple people have pointed it out.
The initial post was not very constructive. I'm aware. I apologize. That doesn't make the opinion presented wrong. I'm not the only one who has that opinion.-
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11 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:
Except they heard your opinions. And have stated that while there won't be more changes in the short term, there will be in the next update.
It's almost like they have a deadline to meet, and can't do what you're asking -before- the deadline, and intend to do something after the deadline has passed and before the next one comes up.
And instead of accepting that very reasonable "Rock and a Hard Place" situation, you're ranting and raving about how they don't listen. Even going so far as to move from the "We want your opinions here" section to the Suggestion forums to continue complaining.
I was told to move my discussion from Focused Feedback to general feedback, thanks.
And I am 'ranting and raving' that they should not start their testing when they know they have such a strict deadline. They can delay the release after providing the proper amount of time to test the set. And if they CAN'T, because they set their own arbitrary deadline, they should, at least, acknowledge that it was a bad decision and they will consider it for the future. Rather than pretending nothing was wrong and insulting testers for trying to provide feedback that they don't want to hear.
They created both the rock and the hard place. They have the power to remove the hard place. There were other things being tested that were not ready, that they are not putting through to the next patch. They are capable of delaying the release of content and features. They are choosing not to.-
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Just now, Ghost said:
My “don’t like it, don’t play it” comment is because I don’t understand your mindset.
Why would you play something you don’t like, or are not happy with? A set that doesn’t meet your expectations?
If you don’t like a particular restaurant, you don’t eat there again. I doubt you stand out front and demand they make the changes you want….so why do it with a set you simply don’t have to play?
Seems like a much easier solution then getting upset and going on a rant - which most people know never ever accomplishes anything.
Except this restaurant isn't open yet, and invited people in to test dishes to see if people thought it should be on the menu. Then sent servers around to ask "how is everything", heard people's opinions about the temperature of the food and the ambiance of the building, and then, before the meal was over, announced "we already decided what was going to be on the menu. We need to open by the end of the month. There's no time to change the selection. Thanks for coming" before listening to the feedback on the actual flavor, texture, variety, or pricing.
Now I'm saying "hey wait, we have things to say about the food. Why did you waste our time bringing us out here if you weren't going to hear our opinions?"
People would be justifiably annoyed at having their time wasted. They would be justified in saying "in the future, you should take the time to consider the menu changes people are suggesting. And if you wouldn't have time to consider menu changes, you should have scheduled the market testing earlier, or at least be honest about the fact that the event was meant to drum up hype for the grand opening." -
13 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:
If you can point to a post where a GM or HC member specifically told you not to post your opinion, please do share it. I have yet to see the exact words "do not post your opinion" by them. The fact that your thread is still here with GM and HC replies is evidence that your assertion is incorrect
The thing about language is that you don't need to use the specific words to convey your point. Carpet bombing every post anyone who disagrees with you with thumbs down is one way to tell them "do not post your opinion". Repeatedly telling them "if you don't like it, don't use it" when that thing is being tested and is (at least in theory) meant to be in a phase where it can be changed to something else, is telling them "do not post your opinion".
"I'm not saying to shut up. I'm just saying don't talk."
If it's not want you're intending to say, I can accept it. But it's how it comes across.
But why not voice my concerns about their willingness to consider feedback? If you agree with that sentiment, but feel too defeated to argue that they should change their methods, that's on you. Don't encourage other people to give up, too. We should want change when we're unhappy with things.
And yeah, I know my angry "this is ridiculous" first post was definitely not helpful or constructive, either. I realized shortly after posting that I should have cooled off before posting this. But it was too late to hide, and so I'm trying, belatedly, to be more constructive with what I say.
(Mr. Moogly, I know this is kind of bickery, but please don't delete it. There's actual discussion about feedback mixed in.)-
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8 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:
No one has suggested that people should not voice their concerns. No one.
What has been said in this regard and what "if you do not like it, do not play it" actually means is that all of the complaints and forum posts and rantings about Attune or whatever other complaints have not convinced HC to change their minds. The set is going to be released as is and will be addressed at a later date. HC holds all the cards here and they are not going to budge. They have a schedule they want to keep and they are going to stick to it, simple as that. There is no changing it at this point, so further complaining is not solving anything, and at least to me looks as if this has done little more than to cause HC dig their heels in.
Until such time the set is fixed later, you have the option to play the set or not. If you want to keep shouting into the wind hoping someone will hear you, go right ahead. Personally, I do not see it moving the dial.
I disagree with your first statement.
However, the part I highlighted, I definitely agree with. And that's a consistent pattern and problem with the development and testing of this game. And that's part of what I mean when I say they do not listen. It's back to the analogy I made of being one the phone and going "uh huh, uh huh, mhmm" until the person stops talking and hangs up. Once the developers have made up their mind on something, they stop actively listening. Sure, they'll keep the discussion going, but not with any intention of actually considering any feedback.
And this thread, and my reactions, and criticisms, have all primarily been about how I feel that this was the state of their willingness to accept feedback from the start. There was never going to be serious consideration of dramatic changes. There was not going to be enough time for that. They knew the deadline was November. They chose to push it out for testing with only two weeks, because that's enough time to tweak numbers. People went into the testing with the assumption that there would time for testing. People put time into testing and providing feedback. What we got was an abrupt "okay that's done now, we don't have time for big changes. Maybe later."
Why? Was it that they thought it would be an easy win for a marquee feature to make the patch look more rich in content? Was it that they were so confident in their internal testing they couldn't fathom anyone being unhappy with their experimental new idea?
Was it that they are developing for the four people who have liked every post that speaks positively about the set and criticized people who are unhappy? Because you shouldn't develop for four people. You being part of that group of four people doesn't make your opinion more valid. It doesn't make you superior. Stop acting like it, please.-
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11 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:
Correct. If it is not to my liking, I will not watch it, just as I stopped watching Discovery after its first season. See how simple that is? Please contain your inflated sense of entitlement in the Sonic Melee thread. No need to play the wounded puppy.
Except you didn't. You posted "don't make any more of this, because I don't like it". It's not made for you. They aren't obligated to stop making them simply because you don't like the show.
And now I'm telling you, no, don't voice your opinion. Just shut up and don't consume the thing being created.
Like you suggest others do when they don't like things.
Do you see how annoying that is? That's what you sound like.-
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8 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:
I disagree. It is a bad thing and please, no more reboots. Star Trek had a very successful 18 year television run from 1987 to 2005 creating new series with new characters with their own stories to tell. We do not need yet another rehash of TOS or TNG.
If you don't like it, don't watch it.
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11 minutes ago, Ghost said:
So simple, and yet so difficult for some.I'm gonna start saying this any time they release powers that underperform numbers-wise. Or any time someone points out a potential bug.
That's just how they made it. If you don't like it, don't play it.
Better yet, don't give feedback at all. Just take everything unquestioningly. If you don't like it, don't play it.-
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2 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
We've known this for years. If you're referring to me, its unlikely you have my test account. You'd be surprised.
Are you claiming that nobody that provided negative feedback provided any data? No. But those that did are more likely to effectuate change.
I'd record sonic melee footage if it were not already stated no major changes would be made already, but additionally, let's not pretend that things have been handled objectively for the last few cycles. No major changes will be for the next few weeks. Changes are anticipated to be made after that.
I think white knighting behind the shield of being a moderator is a bad look, personally. I don't think I am doing that. *shrug*
On 11/18/2025 at 6:39 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:Yikes… been decades since I seen one of these high school style line by line replies.
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1 hour ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
I think I may have a different definition of "listen" than some of you. I consider listening is hearing and paying attention to what is being said. I submit that HC does indeed hear the complaints and critiques just as well as we hear the kudos and congrats.
Some may be thinking of "listen" like when a parent tells a child, "you better listen to what I am telling you!" Or something similar outside of a parent-child relationship. In my mind that goes beyond listening; that is "hear me and obey."
I admit that we aren't as good at the obey part.
I can see why you would see it that way. It's annoying and frustrating and disheartening to be told people don't like the things you're working on. It's always easy to see yourself positively and others negatively, when there are disagreements. Especially when you're the one in the position of power.
To me this situation is more like when someone is on the phone going "Uh huh. Uh huh. Mhm..." trying to make the conversation end so they can hang up and then immediately purge the interaction from their memory. You are technically listening. You hear the sounds. But you're not actually considering anything being said by the person on the phone. You're just letting them speak so it gets over with sooner. (Not you, specifically. The generic "you".)
Trying to choose my words carefully instead of speaking in broad strokes, because it is true that feedback has been listened to in the past. Even with Sonic Melee, things were adjusted to make the set more powerful, and there was an attempt to change Attune slightly. But it was always just number tweaks and small adjustments. There didn't seem to ever be an actual willingness to consider that the feature wasn't working on a conceptual level and might need to be changed to something else.
The speed that this set was put through both phases of testing makes it very hard to believe that there was a willingness to consider feedback that wasn't just bug reports and number tweaking. If the deadline was November, the set should have started testing much earlier in advance.
Saying "it's feature locked now, but still give feedback" doesn't mean much. Feedback is always accepted. There's a whole section of the forum for it. The issue is whether or not they actually consider it. To me that reads like "we know you don't like it, and you're free to keep complaining".23 minutes ago, Championess said:Well that can come down to the user giving specifics on what they would like to see the power do within a framework of what the devs are aiming for.
To give an example, on my alt moniker I had an extra suggestion to build on their TK revamp that seemed applicable since Levitate was already interacting with it. The original alteration to TK felt like the cake was baked but it needed just a bit of extra frosting for the right amount of oomph to make it an attractive power within MC. They felt it was good enough and shipped it to open beta where I gave my cut and dry take how it plays with melee style control players and it got the extra frosting.
I gave solutions to build on it a bit more. What I didn't do is flame to try to get my way, I offered to give it a proper critique within the playstyle of the powerset and let the chips fall how they decide.
This works if the what the devs are aiming for is always correct. But it's not. They should be willing to accept and admit that their ideas don't always work. The flaming started when it was made clear there was no plan to actually consider opinions on the set, other than tweaking numbers and minor fixes.
I'm not sure your example is equivalent to this situation. They spent a long time testing those changes. If my math and memory is correct, the changes were first brought up in October 2023. The patch with that revamp didn't come until February of 2024. That's months of testing. Even looking at a testing period for a brand new powerset for a more equivalent example. Pyrotechnic Control first started testing in February 2025. It was tested until June 2025. Four months.
They only spent two weeks on testing Sonic Melee before announcing it was feature locked (and will maybe get another look after it's released). That's what's frustrating about this.
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21 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
@Wravis, have you actually tried Sonic Melee on the test server?
And if so, when? Because it has gone through several changes.
I have, yes. Several redacted days during closed, and the first two days of open, and then again yesterday, and some more today. What I see, I feel, is a bandage over a broken bone. It's a patch up that doesn't fix the underlying issue.
That said... I'd go back through all of my posts and try to edit my tone to be less hostile if I could, but at this point it'd be pointless because I've already gotten on the nerves of the people who were meant to see my feedback.
If you can/would like to hide/delete this thread, that'd be ideal. But you can also leave it up so people can reference it when they want to point out how not to interact with the GM/Dev team.
Either way, some time in the near future I'll probably write a hopefully much more polite feedback post, to give my suggestions for what I feel is an ongoing issue regarding feedback and decision making. I'll wait until I'm less frustrated by my interactions during this testing period.
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1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:
Whomever CPC is, could use their help with some bugs!!!
Not taking your demand on a particular thing in the set does not mean we don't listen. You need to separate "you did not agree with me" from "you don't listen".
Every page of feedback on the Focused Feedback thread, and nearly every person giving feedback on attune on Discord, stated that attune is an awkward, clunky feature, that, at best, is something they'll skip or suffer with, at worst, makes people not want to play the set at all. It's not about you disagreeing with me. It's everyone echoing the same sentiment.
1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:For one, I literally said to keep the feedback coming. There will be more changes in the post-launch update. Does that mean changing the toggle thing? Maybe, maybe not. Mostly depends on what potential new engine tech can be added, or what unused techniques can be leveraged to get the desired results.
Telling us to keep the feedback coming, after stating "we're pushing this through, no big changes will be made" is very contradictory. Especially given how rushed through the set was, compared to everything else that was being tested. It's hard to trust that any feedback will be considered, when this set was so rushed out the door. One week of closed beta. One week of open beta. Two weeks of you refusing to consider that maybe Attune as a feature is not working out. You stated you have a vision for the set, and dug your heels in.1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:You turn a blind eye to it, but some players have enjoyed the core idea and have provided positive reactions after the multiple iterations to improve on it.
You turn a blind eye to the MAJORITY of players stating the opposite. It's easy to ignore the negative feedback and latch on the positive. This is your creation. You want to see the positive. It's hard to hear that people don't like something you made. But if you're going to claim "some players have enjoyed it" to dismiss the overwhelming majority, you need to reevaluate how you handle feedback.
1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:The most negative reaction was on Attune's own strength being boosted by the T1 and T2, or the boost to other powers also requiring their use. That has been entirely removed. Attune itself is now a single click unlock for the set's mechanics. A toggle Disintegrate that you only need to click once if you will. It being a toggle allows for a smoother interaction between the power and Fury and other AT inherent abilities like team crit bonuses on stalkers or crit fluctuations from whatever source on a scrapper. It also allows for procs to potentially passively trigger every 10s, and prevents the need to be regularly spamming an attack to re-establish the set's mechanic on a hard target.
These are things that simply can't happen on a click mechanic driver.
Although there are still some dislike on toggles in general, the main issues have been addressed (visual feedback, cooldown after shutdown, shutdown due to moving too far, etc).
You personally don't need to love every set. We are never going to make every set be loved by everyone.
No. You have it reversed. Most of the negative reactions were about how awkward it is to have a single target toggle power in a melee set. It doesn't work well. It doesn't feel good to play. It makes for a bad level up experience.
And if your desired feature doesn't work well due to game limitations, it's time to consider a new feature that does work, instead of forcing a bad one through.1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:We do push for some minimum and maximum performance levels, but the playstyle to get there is not going to be the same for every set. We will aim to broaden a set's appeal as much as we can, so long it does not sacrifice set uniqueness in the process.
This is the sentiment that makes it feel like you do not listen as a consistent pattern, and not just regarding Sonic Melee, and attune.
This is the same sentiment you used to defend how awful Storm Blast felt to play. You were so proud of your ramp up design. The storm building. Even though the majority of players who tested it said it felt bad to play in groups, because it took too long and was too stationary. But you refused to budge on the grounds that "it makes the set unique".
Being unique made it not fun. And you went back and changed it to make things mobile, and reduce the ramp up, because it turns out all of those people who said it felt bad to play were right.1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:As for the feature lock: a lot of the team have families and, well, lives. Thanksgiving is coming in the US, as well as many holidays globally. Update cycles [to live] become nearly impossible for that period. We might still have continued open beta development happen, although likely at a slower iteration pace since, as I just noted: people will be taking time to spend with their families.
Why did you push this set through so rapidly if you knew there was a short deadline? Why not wait to test it out for the next patch? The way it was handled makes it seem like you never had any intention of considering feature changes. One week of closed and one week of open beta testing? When other sets spent months being worked on and tested.
If you needed it to be ready by the end of November, you should have started testing it when the other sets were starting testing.-
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14 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
Words have meanings. The statement I quoted was you stating as fact, and a quote even, that "we're done listening." That's not at all what he said. He said the opposite of that. Your statement is obviously and provably false. You should stop doing that. As far as ignoring you . . . I think I will ignore you . . . at least for the rest of tonight.
Optics are important. When we're told "give feedback, I swear we're listening" and then the same day we're told "feedback's done for now, we'll get back to it at a later time", it reads like "this is done now. No more reason to give feedback".
And it especially stings when the feedback period was so short, and the feedback given was the same sentiment throughout.-
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8 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:
You should stop stating things that are obviously and provably false. The quote above shows that CPC is still welcoming feedback and anticipates additional changes.
Sometimes the boss tells you to stop making changes, so you stop making changes for now and fix it later.
You should read everything I'm saying and not just fixate on the things you think you can hit me with a 'gotcha' to shut me down.
One of my pieces of feedback in this thread is that a design philosophy of "we're not taking your feedback now because we need to release this, we'll fix it later" is terrible.
8 minutes ago, LightMaster said:Wravis does make a point on devs needing to pay more attention to feedback.
But if the feedback is presented in an aggressive tone, or if disagreeing with what the others said without proving it? Then we run into a problem of aggressive feedback that can put far more stress to the devs than they already got.
I got aggressive because people are being ignored. And then told they are not being ignored.
Getting feedback that is consistently saying "this thing is not good" and having it not be addressed, and sped through to the next phase, and then getting the SAME feedback, and speeding it through to release, IS ignoring feedback.
It does NOT mean they never listen to any feedback ever. But it's ignoring feedback.-
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[OPEN BETA] Patch Notes for December 19th, 2025
in [Open Beta] Patch Notes
Posted
That's fair. Not everyone likes the holidays, or celebrates the same way, or at all.
It does feel like communication could be better, both within the homecoming team and with players, but that's true for everyone and everything. And your posts make it clear it's being worked on.
It's appreciated.