About that fix for Confront we discussed, well here it is.

[Lazarillo]

3 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

Leaving it as is is NOT an option, as right now Scrappers essentially only get 8 powers in their primary.

Just because people aren't taking it, doesn't mean they only get 8 powers.

And if they're satisfied with those 8 (misguided though they may be), then the 9th power isn't needed anyway.

 

It would be better to look at powers people are forced to take and don't use.

 

  

1 minute ago, sacredlunatic said:

I am just trying to make Confront worth taking.

"I don't like this power!  Remove it from the game completely so that nobody can use it ever!" is not a good argument.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Lazarillo

[Wavicle]

Just now, Lazarillo said:

It would be better to look at powers people are forced to take and don't use.

That's a separate issue.  We can do both.

[Wavicle]

Just now, Lazarillo said:

 

And if they're satisfied with those 8 (misguided though they may be), then the 9th power isn't needed anyway.

 

That's not acceptable.

[Lazarillo]

1 minute ago, sacredlunatic said:

That's a separate issue.  We can do both.

We don't need to do both, though.

 

  

Just now, sacredlunatic said:

That's not acceptable.

Nor is removing a power from the game just because it doesn't fit with your playstyle.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Lazarillo

[SwitchFade]

OP, I gotta say, you're kinda going about this backwards.

 

We're the audience, if you want a change, you have to convince your audience that there's a problem, that it's significant, that it needs changing, that your proposal is worthwhile and get buy in.

 

You're asking us to propose changes to you. Look, I don't care if confront stays the way it is, I'm not at all interested in a change. If you are, that's awesome, your job now is to get be to buy what you're selling.

 

Honestly though, telling me my reason for not wanting what you're selling is telling your audience they are wrong for not wanting what you want: instant loss of audience.

 

If your pitch doesn't work, work on your pitch.

[Wavicle]

Just now, SwitchFade said:

OP, I gotta say, you're kinda going about this backwards.

 

We're the audience, if you want a change, you have to convince your audience that there's a problem, that it's significant, that it needs changing, that your proposal is worthwhile and get buy in.

 

You're asking us to propose changes to you. Look, I don't care if confront stays the way it is, I'm not at all interested in a change. If you are, that's awesome, your job now is to get be to buy what you're selling.

 

Honestly though, telling me my reason for not wanting what you're selling is telling your audience they are wrong for not wanting what you want: instant loss of audience.

 

If your pitch doesn't work, work on your pitch.

A ton of people do think it needs to be changed.  Again, look here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/fotm-powers/

Almost literally no one takes the power.  If you can't accept that evidence then I don't know what to tell you.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Lazarillo said:

We don't need to do both, though.

Yes, we do.

[SwitchFade]

Just now, sacredlunatic said:

A ton of people do think it needs to be changed.  Again, look here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/fotm-powers/

Almost literally no one takes the power.  If you can't accept that evidence then I don't know what to tell you.

You're misunderstanding, your job is to sell your idea. I'm not sold, but I'm open to your new idea. Work on it and come back, don't ask me to sell myself on your idea. And don't tell me I'm wrong for not liking your idea.

[Wavicle]

@SwitchFade

Maybe you weren't in the discussions that have already taken place.

There is widespread agreement, with numbers that I have linked you to to back it up, that Confront is not worth taking.

I don't need to convince you personally.  That work is done.

So again, please supply your suggestion for how to fix the power or just let it go.  

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, SwitchFade said:

You're misunderstanding, your job is to sell your idea. I'm not sold, but I'm open to your new idea. Work on it and come back, don't ask me to sell myself on your idea. And don't tell me I'm wrong for not liking your idea.

You don't have to like the idea.  I still think it is the best idea that has so far been presented.

[SwitchFade]

Just now, sacredlunatic said:

@SwitchFade

Maybe you weren't in the discussions that have already taken place.

There is widespread agreement, with numbers that I have linked you to to back it up, that Confront is not worth taking.

I don't need to convince you personally.  That work is done.

So again, please supply your suggestion for how to fix the power or just let it go.  

You just lost your audience. No one said there's not people who want change, what I said refers to your proposal only 

 

I said your idea is unconvincing, so no sale. That is IRRESPECTIVE of the larger confront debate. Thanks for your idea, but your lack of listening to audience feedback has now prompted me to leave your presentation.

[Lazarillo]

4 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

A ton of people do think it needs to be changed.  Again, look here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/fotm-powers/

Almost literally no one takes the power.  If you can't accept that evidence then I don't know what to tell you.

And so you darn well need a solution that satisfies the people that do, too, especially when, by your own admission, you've got 8 other great powers that don't "need" it to be taken anyway.

 

It's as SwitchFade has said: don't go and make a topic that assumes a fix needs to be made, when you don't even know what you'd "fix" and there's plenty right with the power as-is.

[Wavicle]

Just now, Lazarillo said:

It's as SwitchFade has said: don't go and make a topic that assumes a fix needs to be made, when you don't even know what you'd "fix" and there's plenty right with the power as-is.

But I do know what I'd fix, a fix Does need to be made as has been demonstrated, and the power is currently worthless.

[Wavicle]

If you don't like my idea that's fine.  But I'm going to stop responding to any further comments that don't like the idea unless they supply suggestions of their own.

[Lazarillo]

Just now, sacredlunatic said:

supply suggestions of their own.

Don't change it.

[Replacement]

48 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

That's great. I think this one of the least desirable suggestions, thus the hard no vote. Also, it's kinda rude to tell someone their objections are not relevant. Your case for change is shaky and your proposed solution is unconvincing, I'm very sorry. 

I suggest, take the feedback, review your proposal, refine it until you get buy-in.

 

Sure, confront sucks. Bit your proposal is an instant no. I'm welcome to a reproposal and encourage you to work on your case 

Your objections are not relevant (in this thread).  Ditto @Lazarillo.

 

File them here: 

 

Edit: how do I get that stupid fucking GIF out of the preview?

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Replacement

[Lazarillo]

Just now, sacredlunatic said:

supply suggestions of their own.

Don't change it.  That is a suggestion, and a great solution for the people who use it.

You not liking the solution is no reason to shoot it down when you made a topic that is asking for suggestions.

[Lazarillo]

1 minute ago, Replacement said:

File them here: 

All the more reason a second topic didn't need to be made.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 minute ago, Lazarillo said:

And so you darn well need a solution that satisfies the people that do, too, especially when, by your own admission, you've got 8 other great powers that don't "need" it to be taken anyway.

 

It's as SwitchFade has said: don't go and make a topic that assumes a fix needs to be made, when you don't even know what you'd "fix" and there's plenty right with the power as-is.

It seems you are coming into this thread quite out of the loop. Its the Devs themselves that have made the lack of use of confront and its dire need to be changed a topic. After a number of threads since it seems this idea caught the interest of this threads OP enough to champion it. 

 

As the OP has said there is no need to even debate confront needing a fix, that has been determined a given. Most seem to concur that due to going rogue, brutes now fill the role of alt aggro magnet and that scrappers need something new, and unique to them to help define the whole arch type. Many then seemed to agree that charge abilities for melee units are so common across games that it would be a logical universal thing to drop in.

 

Now Im not saying this is the best idea though I certainly dont think it a bad one.  But i am saying that some of the combative and disruptive posts acting as if this discussion is premature come off as late to the larger discussion.

[Replacement]

Just now, Lazarillo said:

All the more reason a second topic didn't need to be made.

This is how discussion works:

 

Multiple people discuss an overarching problem.  If a few people feel there is an interesting sidepath to take it, they start their own discussion instead of derailing the initial one.  Please revive that thread, which is only a week old, with how you feel about Confront, which will require you to confront (snicker) the issues laid out there already. 

 

I'm not trying to be an ass.  But @sacredlunatic et al already went over this and you are ignoring it by jumping in here.

[Wavicle]

Just now, Replacement said:

This is how discussion works:

 

Multiple people discuss an overarching problem.  If a few people feel there is an interesting sidepath to take it, they start their own discussion instead of derailing the initial one.  Please revive that thread, which is only a week old, with how you feel about Confront, which will require you to confront (snicker) the issues laid out there already. 

 

I'm not trying to be an ass.  But @sacredlunatic et al already went over this and you are ignoring it by jumping in here.

To be clear I started that thread myself.

I had no thoughts of how to improve the power.  I sought other people's input.  After getting that input in the previous thread, I made a separate thread with My suggestion.

[Lazarillo]

3 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Multiple people discuss an overarching problem.  If a few people feel there is an interesting sidepath to take it, they start their own discussion instead of derailing the initial one.  Please revive that thread, which is only a week old, with how you feel about Confront, which will require you to confront (snicker) the issues laid out there already. 

Please explain to me why that thread wasn't revived in the first place, and a second topic had to be made.

 

And then explain to me why "it's fine the way it is, don't cottage rule a power that has its own niche and no effective way to replace it with one that is literally accomplished by moving" isn't a suggestion.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Lazarillo

[Wavicle]

Maybe that was poor forums practice.  If so, I apologize, I don't have that much experience with online message boards.

[SwitchFade]

1 minute ago, Replacement said:

This is how discussion works:

 

Multiple people discuss an overarching problem.  If a few people feel there is an interesting sidepath to take it, they start their own discussion instead of derailing the initial one.  Please revive that thread, which is only a week old, with how you feel about Confront, which will require you to confront (snicker) the issues laid out there already. 

 

I'm not trying to be an ass.  But @sacredlunatic et al already went over this and you are ignoring it by jumping in here.

I get you, but please keep in mind the OP didn't launch a discussion he offered a proposal, which is cool. After his speech, I said "I'm not sold and frankly, I have to vote no. Also, I'm open to your refining it and trying again." Now, if this were an attempt at discussing his rough idea and his ellicitation of how to make it better to collaboratively create a better world for all the children and puppies 😋 I would oblige, but it wasn't.

 

No disrespect, but, not sold on teleport ever, and no vote. And because of the lack of listening to feedback I'm now not receptive to this idea even refined.

[Wavicle]

@SwitchFade You said no.  I accept that you don't like my idea.  What more "listening to feedback" do you expect than that?