Dark/Cold soloing ability (AVs?)

[selfunconsciousness]

Hey everyone, I'm pretty new to theory-crafting on this game and have been looking into a powerset combination to really sink my time and effort into (main it basically).  I want it to be something that doesn't feel like it completely leans on one game-breaking or altering mechanic in order to be strong like perma-PA (no disrespect) or seeds of confusion.  I also like having abilities that are powerful but only if used correctly, and force me to have a more tactical playstyle.  For context, I currently have a plant/storm at level 38 which I thoroughly enjoy, but I feel like my single target damage is low enough that soloing AVs (something I'd like to do) may be difficult with no -regen in storm.  Also, I just got a painful surprise whooping from Longbow when they resisted my seeds of confusion which makes me feel like it too heavily leans on the confusion mechanic to be strong.  

 

I'm interested in Dark/Cold because it seems to have several strong powers that are also situational enough to require more thought than just memorizing a rotation, as well as team support and -regen in /Cold.    I'm curious if anyone has experience with this powerset combo that could help me make a decision to more deeply invest into it.  Does Dark/ put out enough damage to solo AVs?  If not, would adding sorcery with Arcane Bolt/Enflame help?  Does /Cold have enough -regen to solo AVs?  Does not having a self heal present a challenge?   Am I being a fool for reconsidering my Plant/Storm for the reasons above?

 

I've also toyed with the idea of Fire/Dark, but at first glimpse Fire/ seems too simple for my tastes (stand in the middle of enemies while untouchable and DoT them down).  I may be wrong though.  I’m also open to other archetypes completely if they play similar to the way I’ve described above. I’ve never touched dominator or VEATS. 

 

Thank you in advance for any insight you can offer!

Edited February 24, 2020 by selfunconsciousness

[Zeraphia]

Dark/ as a primary is indeed viable and does fairly well, cold as well really is desired and the -regen from cold is absolutely enough for you to water it down. Lore will help you with some of the damage on super hard targets, there's lots of proc opportunities, this is a very viable solid combination for what you wish to do. Be warned though, it does not deliver the same kind of killing AOE potential without procs that the plant/storm will. 

[Coyote]

28 minutes ago, selfunconsciousness said:

Does Dark/ put out enough damage to solo AVs?  If not, would adding sorcery with Arcane Bolt/Enflame help?  Does /Cold have enough -regen to solo AVs?  Does not having a self heal present a challenge?   Am I being a fool for reconsidering my Plant/Storm for the reasons above?

 

Dark puts out good single-target damage for Controllers, and Cold makes it a lot easier due to strong -Resist and -Regen.

Cold has -500% which can be made perma, and other than Traps this is about the highest you're going to get.

Not having a self-heal IS a challenge... the -ToHit from Dark is noticeable and will make it easier to survive AVs due to lower incoming damage, but incoming damage will still happen and when you're depending on just regeneration then you really have to throttle incoming damage down a lot. Also, AVs that put out -Defense are going to be really nasty. Not unbeatable, but really difficult.

Plant/Storm is, IMO, a better pair overall... but it does suffer from the bag-of-single-trick that Plant is prone to. Facing Nemesis, Longbow, and Rularuu with it is painful. The Stuns from Storm help, but it's still a tough slog against them. Storm's damage output is really nice, so it's actually equivalent to -Regen from other sets, so I don't really consider it as much worse than Cold against most AVs. It's less effective against high-resist AVs, but frankly unless the AV has a lot of 50% resists, you can usually power through it by the application of more explosives to the problem (in the form of Tornado/Storm). But Cold really helps with -Resist, -Regen, and -Heal.

[oedipus_tex]

Can Cold do it? Maybe.

 

I feel like Cold has taken a big stumble since it's heyday though. Back before inherent Stamina was a thing, Cold stood out as one of the few sets that with enough Recharge could bypass the Fitness pool entirely, which opened up more build choices than other secondaries.

 

The set is still good and has lots of -Resist. But without the sustainability of a self heal I feel like it would struggle.

 

Overall I think Dark/Dark has much a better, easier shot. You lose some -Resist but that's it. Unlike Cold, with Dark your +Defense works on you, the caster. 

 

Dark Control still wouldn't be my first pick for an AV slayer. But it can probably do it.

[oedipus_tex]

Also, while I am not sure it would work, I suspect Gravity/Dark could lay serious hurt on an AV. I've not run numbers to confirm this. 

 

You'd want to take the single target Immobilize for the Containment damage. Impact should work whether they are actually Held or not, as long as you tag them occasionally with your Hold. Propel deals excellent damage for a Controller. Also the pet is very much up to the task of surviving AV damage. He even spams Holds to keep your Impacts going.

 

 

[selfunconsciousness]

Thank you all for your input.  I've seen in several places (here included) that Dark/Dark is a powerful combo.  I'm interested in going that route.  However, I've also heard that Dark/ is already defensive due to its -tohit, meaning that it pairs better with a more offensive secondary.  Is /Dark as offensive as it is defensive?  What do you all think is a good secondary combo for Dark/?

[Frosticus]

what kind of AVs? lvl 50 ones? 

 

yes absolutely, it actually isnt hard for cold at all if you have high recharge and it isnt because of the -regen. Though that is helpful, but considerably more so vs gms. 500% -regen is good for about 70 dps vs a lvl 50 AV

 

benumb does -50% damage. -damage is a funny debuff because it is boosted by -res. cold also does a lot of -res.

 

a cold with benumb and double sleet will reduce a lvl 50 AVs damage by 80%. Put achilies in infrigidate and  you now floor said AVs damage to 10%. That means if it would have hit you for 1k (ie a dangerous foe) it will now hit for 100 before your resistances. 

So survival is pretty trivial for a very high recharge cold. Which is pretty important for non illusion trollers. 

 

Yes it takes time to double stack sleet. cold spikes them with sleet plus heatloss for about  the same results at the start of the fight.

 

Miss with benumb and then you might have issues. 

 

Move on to +lvl AVs and you start to encounter other issues because your debuffs lose effectiveness for each level of difference. 

your debuffs are 65% as effective vs a +3.

 

So that same benumb +double sleet + achillies only debuffs by 49% -damage. Additionally, a +3 hits way harder and has a bit of an accuracy bonus. 

 

tohit debuffing isnt a very effective route vs AVs. It isnt worthless but it takes a lot of tohit debuffing to make a dent as a lvl 50 AV has 85%? (maybe 87%) resistance to tohit debuffs. +lvl AVs will punish you if your primary tactic is tohit debuffing. 

 

 

[oedipus_tex]

2 hours ago, Frosticus said:

what kind of AVs? lvl 50 ones? 

 

yes absolutely, it actually isnt hard for cold at all if you have high recharge and it isnt because of the -regen. Though that is helpful, but considerably more so vs gms. 500% -regen is good for about 70 dps vs a lvl 50 AV

 

benumb does -50% damage. -damage is a funny debuff because it is boosted by -res. cold also does a lot of -res.

 

a cold with benumb and double sleet will reduce a lvl 50 AVs damage by 80%. Put achilies in infrigidate and  you now floor said AVs damage to 10%. That means if it would have hit you for 1k (ie a dangerous foe) it will now hit for 100 before your resistances. 

So survival is pretty trivial for a very high recharge cold. Which is pretty important for non illusion trollers. 

 

Yes it takes time to double stack sleet. cold spikes them with sleet plus heatloss for about  the same results at the start of the fight.

 

Miss with benumb and then you might have issues. 

 

Move on to +lvl AVs and you start to encounter other issues because your debuffs lose effectiveness for each level of difference. 

your debuffs are 65% as effective vs a +3.

 

So that same benumb +double sleet + achillies only debuffs by 49% -damage. Additionally, a +3 hits way harder and has a bit of an accuracy bonus. 

 

tohit debuffing isnt a very effective route vs AVs. It isnt worthless but it takes a lot of tohit debuffing to make a dent as a lvl 50 AV has 85%? (maybe 87%) resistance to tohit debuffs. +lvl AVs will punish you if your primary tactic is tohit debuffing. 

 

 

 

 

These are all excellent points and a nice rebuttal of what I said earlier about Cold. Perhaps I haven't given it a fair shake. I hadn't considered the -Damage aspect.

 

 

[Frosticus]

58 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

These are all excellent points and a nice rebuttal of what I said earlier about Cold. Perhaps I haven't given it a fair shake. I hadn't considered the -Damage aspect.

 

 

It can be a pretty potent debuff, but it is a far more widely available tactic for traps (seeker drones) and poison (weaken+venomous gas)and of course the king of -damage, dark.

 

Everyone talks about poison being junk, but a poison defender can floor a lvl 50 AV's damage in less than 4 seconds... permanently with SO's. 

Poison troller (troller thread after all) will cut it by 70%. 

 

Some other sets have a bit of -dam, but generally not enough, or the ability to boost it themselves, to really enter this discussion. 

 

Cold can only do it vs 1 target and even the most geared build won't have it up full time.