Mind/fire? Mind/Psi ? Fire/Psi? Dark? cant decide

[warlyx]

gaaahhh cant decide what dom to play so many good options

 

pros/cons?

 

i want to be able to solo , maybe farm ?, prefer ranged and avoid melee attacks (outside pbaoe attacks )

 

leveled a mind/psi but lacks dmg (still low lvl ) guess is a late bloomer 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Coyote]

/Psi is a low damage secondary, with its claim to fame that it's probably the best defensive secondary. Drain Psyche is probably the best single power in Dominator secondaries, so that makes the set fine overall... but note that it's still a defensive power, with the only real offensive benefits being against AVs and helping you attack more without running out of Endurance. So if you want good damage, this really isn't it. It does, however, shore up defensive holes for sets that may have problems... for that reason, I run a Fire/Psy since Fire does good damage but needs help both in surviving and in Endurance management.

 

Mind/Fire is an excellent combination. I run that also. It's all ranged/cones, as skipping the melee range attacks from Fire isn't a problem. It gets good benefits from Domination since all Mind powers except Telekinesis benefit from it, and it works well with Fire's single-target focus in that it's good at locking down a small numbers of mobs so they do nothing at all, and having Fire burn them down. It can solo well at high difficulties but not at high team numbers, and it doesn't farm well.

 

Generally, Dark > Mind. Mind has an AoE Confuse as the advantage, but both have a similar single-target Confuse, and Dark has better controls otherwise (a Stun and Immob combo instead of Sleep and Telekinesis), and two pets to help with damage. I would say that Dark/Fire is a really good and powerful pairing.

 

Still not a farmer, though, hehe. The only sets I would suggest for farming are Fire Control and Plant Control, and AoE secondaries are probably Earth, Thorns, and Savage. Maybe Martial. So... Plant/Thorns? Fire/Earth? Plant/Savage?

[oedipus_tex]

I can farm, kind of, on my Elec/Psi Dominator. The damage isn't there to compete with a Brute of course. Not even close. But I can run at x8+4 against Energy using mobs (hand picked similar to how you do for a fire farm; Energy because Energy Defense is always paired with Ranged Defense). Plus generally run through most of the more standard enemy groups, like Circle of Thorns and Council. Just not Arachnos (Arachnos have -Recharge, which is Dominator kryptonite).

 

Plant is a genuine all around curb stomper. Plant/Psi is a good pair because Plant has damage to help cover Psi's holes. Altho most of the damage is AoE.

 

Gravity/Psi might be one of the rare pairings for Gravity Control on Dominators that could work out. Lift/Propel can help fill in for Psi's poor single target blasts and the ability to Wormhole>Drain Psyche will never not be amazing.

 

If you notice I keep mentioning Psi that's because altho it's the lowest damage set I just can't seem to get my other Dominators to the survivability levels it provides and the ability to roll through x8+4 content. Dominators just eat too much damage. It's possible I'm just not as skilled as other players though. 

 

FYI there's a certain point with any Dominator where you kind of go "Might I not be better rolling this as a Blaster for the huge damage or a Controller for force multiplication?" And it's kind of true in the current meta that those archetypes (IMO) have a leg upon Dominators in a lot of scenarios, specifics depending. But the archetype is still fun, if not quite the front runner it used to be back in i24.

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Mezmera]

Dark has better controls than Mind?  That's news to me!  Mind is the all being control power set if anything.  You substitute a pet for a mass control that also gives you 16 pets, you substitute haunt for a massive cone of aoe soft control, then there's the aoe hold as opposed to a clunky target location hold, there's the mass sleep that causes no aggro and lastly should you need any more control you have a toggle that holds another small groups.  I mean nothing has the control toolkit that Mind has but yeah.  

 

To the OP I'd say Mind/Fire if you're looking for range damage but should you feel a bit brave I'd recommend something that'll give you a better variety of damage with a great mix of range and melee.  All your targets should be held mostly anyways so why ever would you feel so scared that you want to stay at range? Give /energy or /earth a try.  But yeah mostly doms damage are late bloomers from mid 20's to 40's.  

Edited March 8, 2020 by Mezmera

[oedipus_tex]

Just now, Mezmera said:

Dark has better controls than Mind?  That's news to me!  Mind is the all being control power set if anything.  You substitute a pet for a mass control that also gives you 16 pets, you substitute haunt for a massive cone of aoe soft control, then there's the aoe hold as opposed to a clunky target location hold, there's the mass sleep that causes no aggro and lastly should you need any more control you have a toggle that holds another small groups.  I mean nothing has the control toolkit that Mind has but yeah.  

 

I agree with Coyote that Dark Control offers better control than Mind Control.

 

I also politely disagree about Dark's AoE Hold. IMO it's the best AoE Hold in a Control set. It's both an immediate AoE Hold followed by a 45 second duration -ToHit field. Unlike the similar-ish Earth power Volcanic Gasses, it Dominates on first cast and the effect is immediate. The only drawback is the shorter Hold duration, to the extent that matters.

 

Overall I just don't really like Mind Control much at all. I used to main it for a while on live, but with Dark around these days I just find that so superior, lacking only Mass Confusion, with its 240second recharge self.

[Mezmera]

4 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

I agree with Coyote that Dark Control offers better control than Mind Control.

 

I also politely disagree about Dark's AoE Hold. IMO it's the best AoE Hold in a Control set. It's both an immediate AoE Hold followed by a 45 second duration -ToHit field. Unlike the similar-ish Earth power Volcanic Gasses, it Dominates on first cast and the effect is immediate. The only drawback is the shorter Hold duration, to the extent that matters.

 

Overall I just don't really like Mind Control much at all. I used to main it for a while on live, but with Dark around these days I just find that so superior, lacking only Mass Confusion, with its 240second recharge self.

That's cool rookies aren't really gonna do well with Mind anyways.  Yeah I'll give you that the -tohitt is nice but what does it really matter since Mind's hold is immediate (in domination mind you or with the mag proc) as well and the group will be held much longer and dead well before that -tohitt will have an effect.  

 

You're welcome to come scope out my Mind/Energy to see how it's played in an experts hands.  I'm on excelsior if you'd like to some time.  

Edited March 8, 2020 by Mezmera

[oedipus_tex]

Just now, Mezmera said:

That's cool rookies aren't really gonna do well with Mind anyways.  Yeah I'll give you that the -tohitt is nice but what does it really matter since the group will be held and dead well before that -tohitt will have an effect.  

 

You're welcome to come scope out my Mind/Energy to see how it's played in an experts hands.  I'm on excelsior if you'd like to some time.  

 

While I am not 100% positive because I have not tested it explicitly, I'm fairly sure the -ToHit portion of Shadow Field is autohit, so part of the attraction is even the things you actually miss still can't shoot back at you. Loose canons are always a problem for Dominators. 

[Mezmera]

Well  things like Soul Drain also give the badguys -tohitt and your defenses should be tip top anyways to anticipate those rogues that somehow miss out getting held.  

[oedipus_tex]

2 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Well  things like Soul Drain also give the badguys -tohitt and your defenses should be tip top anyways to anticipate those rogues that somehow miss out getting held.  

 

 

Dark Control far outstrips Soul Drain in area of effect and ability to layer -ToHit, especially once you factor in the pet with its own -ToHit effects to reduce pressure on animation time. The only set that can really compare is Dark Blast, due to Blackstar.

[Mezmera]

Yeah I'd rather have all the targets permanently held and give myself 120% more damage and 40% more tohit.  Darks hold has one small bonus everything else is better in Minds AOE hold and has NOTHING on Soul Drain sorry!

Edited March 8, 2020 by Mezmera

[oedipus_tex]

21 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Yeah I'd rather have all the targets permanently held and give myself 120% more damage and 40% more tohit.  Darks hold has one small bonus everything else is better in Minds AOE hold and has NOTHING on Soul Drain sorry!

 

Dark Control can also take Soul Drain.

 

Mind Control relies on two 240 second recharge AoEs for its hard controls. It has a cone Fear (so does Dark, a better one IMO) and a Sleep. There's nothing remarkable about Mind's AoE Hold. It's the same AoE Hold all Controllers get. Mind is just more reliant on it because it doesn't have better tools.

 

Mind frankly needs a buff IMO. The recharge on Mass Confusion should be closer to 120-160 seconds. Til then, I wouldn't say Mind Control out controls any set other than Ice Control. Most other Controllers have excellent control powers that recycle so much faster. Mass Confuse is a good power when it is up but it's up 1/2 - 1/4 as often as powers in other sets, including AoE confuses. 

[Mezmera]

Soul Drain is a complimentary power was using it more as a point to show that you can get -tohitt from other things on top of getting massive damage and tohit.  

 

Terrify is way better, the cone is massive and it does damage.  On a Mind dom you do actually have lots more AoE control than any other control set so who cares that the recharge is longer?  It holds the targets much longer so that they are actually dead before the hold should wear off which kind of nullifies your -tohitt argument, then the next mob you can use Mass Confusion, or Terrify or Mass Hypnosis then the next mob your hold is recharged again.  

 

The bonuses of Dark are that it gets its ST hold in the first selectable powers, haunt and the pet add to your dps (but then so does mass confuse) and yeah when fighting an AV the -tohitt a few of those powers would be nice but nothing earth shattering better than what you can also do with Mind control.  

Edited March 8, 2020 by Mezmera

[Mezmera]

21 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

Dark Control can also take Soul Drain.

 

Mind Control relies on two 240 second recharge AoEs for its hard controls. It has a cone Fear (so does Dark, a better one IMO) and a Sleep. There's nothing remarkable about Mind's AoE Hold. It's the same AoE Hold all Controllers get. Mind is just more reliant on it because it doesn't have better tools.

 

Mind frankly needs a buff IMO. The recharge on Mass Confusion should be closer to 120-160 seconds. Til then, I wouldn't say Mind Control out controls any set other than Ice Control. Most other Controllers have excellent control powers that recycle so much faster. Mass Confuse is a good power when it is up but it's up 1/2 - 1/4 as often as powers in other sets, including AoE confuses. 

Like I said don't take my word for it.  Seeing is believing, make something on Excelsior and I'll PL you a bit in PI or DA if you like.  A Mind dom is an amazing creature with someone that knows how to play it.  

[SaddestGhost]

As much as I love mind (I had mind/nrg and /fire doms and mind /kin, /rad, and /emp trollers), I find Dark to be a  bit stronger overall as well.  Rather than clunky, I find Shadow Field pretty darn handy, allowing you to cast around corners and, if you don't like placing it, a simple macro can cast it on your target (powexec_location target Shadow_Field).  If  I recall correctly, it also has a chance to tick a brief hold on enemies that enter into the area after it's been cast.  In situations where control fails, i.e. Cims and their Shout of Command or Nemesis where Jaegers resist sleep, fear, and confusion, Dark still provides mitigation via its debuffs.  On top of that there is the hard control of Heart of Darkness.  On an recharge heavy build, you can bring it down to under 25 seconds cooldown, short enough that it can self-stack if a fight is dragging out.

 

I give Mind credit for two things that I think go a bit overlooked: aggroless controls and lacking ranged/aoe typing.  Prefacing Mass Domination or even Terrify with Mass Hypnosis to cut back on return fire and using Mass Hypnosis to temporarily route an ambush without drawing aggro to yourself are two ways that I leverage the lack of aggro generation.  And having on psi typing on most of its controls lets Mind circumvent some troublesome mobs.  But those advantages don't overwhelm what Dark has to offer, IMO.  As for TK, I've tried to leverage it, but found it too situational.  The low target cap, heavy endurance cost, and reliance on geometry have always hampered my use of it.

 

Even though I love mind, I must admit it is outdone by Dark.  I really do wish Mind would see some love.  Given that electric now has a much faster charging aggroless confuse, I think there's some grounds to look at reducing the recharge on Mass Confusion.

[Mezmera]

Not saying that other control sets might not be better but in terms of control Mind's got everything covered and then some.  Some of the newer powers are balanced better like plant and dark for more damage and such but I don't see Mind needing any major revamp.  To reduce recharge on Mass Confusion it would just be massively OP if it was in constant use.  One thing I'd do maybe would be to swap the ST hold up so it would be selectable right off the bat like all the other powersets, other than that Mind is just fine.  

[Frosticus]

23 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

  To reduce recharge on Mass Confusion it would just be massively OP if it was in constant use.  

Ya plant is pretty crazy at times. Many plant users dont even take their aoe hold and almost no one takes its aoe sleep.

 

[Frosticus]

5 hours ago, warlyx said:

gaaahhh cant decide what dom to play so many good options

 

pros/cons?

 

i want to be able to solo , maybe farm ?, prefer ranged and avoid melee attacks (outside pbaoe attacks )

 

leveled a mind/psi but lacks dmg (still low lvl ) guess is a late bloomer 

 

 

 

 

 

 

all doms tend to be late bloomers.

dark/fire is a  extremely good ranged option and probably one of the highest dps doms you could make. 

 

/psi likes to stay close for drain psyche and psy shockwave. 

 

mind is a good ranged control set. It may have issues once you start adding in aoe damage from epics like fireball or sleet. But if you just focus on a handful of enemies at a time it is super safe.

 

Plant is probably the primary you want for farming. You likely wont be at range in a farm though, so that runs counter to your ranged preference. 

[warlyx]

 

2 hours ago, Frosticus said:

all doms tend to be late bloomers.

dark/fire is a  extremely good ranged option and probably one of the highest dps doms you could make. 

 

/psi likes to stay close for drain psyche and psy shockwave. 

 

mind is a good ranged control set. It may have issues once you start adding in aoe damage from epics like fireball or sleet. But if you just focus on a handful of enemies at a time it is super safe.

 

Plant is probably the primary you want for farming. You likely wont be at range in a farm though, so that runs counter to your ranged preference. 

uhm i see , but why not mix mind and epic /fire? its because mind use sleep a lot , and of course dmg and dots break the control?

 

 

4 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

I can farm, kind of, on my Elec/Psi Dominator.

i have seen one of your videos , but its not the playstyle i want sadly 

Quote

 

FYI there's a certain point with any Dominator where you kind of go "Might I not be better rolling this as a Blaster for the huge damage or a Controller for force multiplication?"

 

and yeah sometimes its feel why im play this combo on dom and not blaster? in my case because i love Control powers , and because while blaster are fun , is just that , dmg and nothing more. I prefer a bit less dmg and bring something to the table.

 

 

2 hours ago, Mezmera said:

Not saying that other control sets might not be better but in terms of control Mind's got everything covered and then some.  Some of the newer powers are balanced better like plant and dark for more damage and such but I don't see Mind needing any major revamp.  To reduce recharge on Mass Confusion it would just be massively OP if it was in constant use.  One thing I'd do maybe would be to swap the ST hold up so it would be selectable right off the bat like all the other powersets, other than that Mind is just fine.  

 

yeah mind has soo many CC , confuse , holds , sleeps , with fast cast / recast , and invis to be able to create chaos on the shadows 😉 ( + who doesnt like finishing those pesky missions of kill 1 boss or click 1 terminal fast ?) superspeed is a good altenative i guess 😛

 

hmmm guess gonna give dark/fire a try , i wanted a ranged DOM that can solo at 50 (maybe farm even if slow, but i guess i can create a farmer char) , and on teams when CC isnt much needed dont feel useless and help on dmg.

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by warlyx

[oedipus_tex]

Mass Confuse in a non-notify power that hits all targets at once and should probably have a Recharge longer than Synaptic Overload or Seeds of Confusion. Still both of those powers recharge four times faster, at 60 seconds. Surely Mind Control would be fine with a 120 second recharge on this power. which would bring it down on a good build global recharge build to around 40 second recharge. For Electric and Plant, their recharge gets down to 15 seconds or so, whereas right now the best multi billion Mind builds get Mass Confusion to around 60 seconds.

Edited March 8, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Mezmera]

30 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Mass Confuse in a non-notify power that hits all targets at once and should probably have a Recharge longer than Synaptic Overload or Seeds of Confusion. Still both of those powers recharge four times faster, at 60 seconds. Surely Mind Control would be fine with a 120 second recharge on this power. which would bring it down on a good build global recharge build to around 40 second recharge. For Electric and Plant, their recharge gets down to 15 seconds or so, whereas right now the best multi billion Mind builds get Mass Confusion to around 60 seconds.

Well seeds is a little too good for what else you can do with plant imo.  That ones recharge could be raised a smidge. 

 

You're telling me you want both of Mind's aoe hard controls to recharge so that they'll be available for every mob?  As is alternating the two every mob is almost a bit too good, with that change the AI will have no chance.  You'll have a bunch of new OP Mind doms running around just accidentally being good, the Titan Weapons of doms.  

 

Sure there's a few small subtle tweaks that could be made to make Mind control more mainstream friendly but also some rebalancing could be justified for the newer control sets also.  With that time I'd rather just see a new dom assault set or some new endgame content added.  

Edited March 8, 2020 by Mezmera

[oedipus_tex]

3 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

You're telling me you want both of Mind's aoe hard controls to recharge so that they'll be available for every mob?  As is alternating the two every mob is almost a bit too good, with that change the AI will have no chance.  You'll have a bunch of new OP Mind doms running around just accidentally being good.  

 

I'm talking about Mass Confusion.

 

• Seeds of Confusion - 60 seconds
• Synaptic Overload - 60 seconds
• Flashfire - 90 seconds
• Wormhole - 90 seconds
• Stalagmites - 90 seconds
• Heart of Darkness - 90 seconds
• Mass Confusion - 240 seconds

 

One of these is not like the others. 

[Mezmera]

Mass Confusion is the substitute for the lack of a pet so it's kind of hard to compare a t9 to those ones if you take the intention of the powersets as a whole into context.  You kind of have to look at this power in terms of what makes it as good as a pet.  Almost all instances I'd rather have this hard AoE control that'll speed up the time spent on that mob compared to a pet that does almost no damage in comparison.  Soloing AVs is about the only time I'd rather have the pet other then that I have all contingencies covered with another hard AoE control. 

 

Mass Confusion available every mob would be dumb, it'd be much easier to take the crutch away from a few of those other powersets like Seeds or Bonfire users.  Or give Mind a new mechanic not unlike Momentum.  

Edited March 8, 2020 by Mezmera

[Redlynne]

Mind Control/Energy Assault/Psionic Mastery ... for the Power Boost from Energy Assault (which combined with Perma-Dom nets you Perma-Lockdown!) along with Link Minds, Indomitable Will and Psionic Tornado.  You have Psionic damage AND Smashing/Energy damage for dealing with stuff that is resistant to Psionic damage.  Build for high recharge (for Perma-Domination) and proceed to faceroll your opposition.

[Frosticus]

6 hours ago, warlyx said:

 

uhm i see , but why not mix mind and epic /fire? its because mind use sleep a lot , and of course dmg and dots break the control?

 

Yes. Once you add in aoe damage terrify starts to degrade. Especially dot damage like fireball/rain of fire or sleet. Dark has this issue with fearsome stare as well, but dark's version carries a large tohit debuff to compensate.

 

Not an issue against a handful of enemies, but the return fire from a x8 team can be problematic on a low hp AT with limited access to heals. Building for defense can help compensate.

 

Mass hypnosis breaks if you even look at them wrong. It is a great power for halting ambushes or a few corner cases of splitting tough groups. It fails immediately in an aoe environment.

 

Mind basically has to cycle 2 ultra long recharge powers to be as effective as other doms with a single power (ie flash fire, or seeds). Those other sets still have that same aoe hold in their arsenal as well. Every set has some tricks beyond their hard controls, mind's are cool and highly effective at times, or remain totally untouched in your tray in most situations.

 

Even if you build for excess recharge and forgo good proc opportunities to reach a 4x recharge factor (+300%) you still have a 60 sec timer on massconfuse/aoe hold. Alternating them means every 30 sec. That sounds great, but a single aoe stun will be up every 22.5 sec in that same scenario. 1 power instead of 2 being fully slotted out. I value power picks and slots a lot.

 

I think a lot of people rate mind above its station because

1. It used to be really good in pvp

2. It used to be one of the only successful tactics for the LRSF

3. It solo's extremely well right from the start, which used to be more important for various reasons

3. Every power says "dominate" so you feel awesome. I don't need earthquake to tell me it is dominating my foes - I can see it for myself.

 

That isn't to say that a mind dom can't crush content, or keep a team safe. It's to say that just about every dom can.