P2W Option: Reject White Salvage Drops

[Snowdaze]

 

7 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

You made a terrible argument about how it will affect the market (it won't), you tried to say it doesn't affect people (for their time in the game), when it does. Again, inspirations and recipes already have this option, honestly less problematic than how much salvage stacks up in comparison. 

 

You possibly make significantly more money in the process by rejecting white salvage, which will lead you to possibly gaining more orange salvage (via the inventory not being full). If you just leave the inventory full, or are in a mission when it is, you are very possibly missing out on actually good salvage because your inventory is choking from the tedious amounts of salvage it has. *(Hence why it SHOULD be reject-able)

 

It is not just laziness that drives this, and honestly even if so... who wants to go /ah after just about every mission to avoid salvage filling up? I certainly don't. I mentioned before just how easily the time accumulates to sell this stuff through the AH, I wouldn't call people "lazy" for not wanting to sell it to be quite honest. What takes you, someone who is practiced at keyboard clicking/typing 30 seconds to do, may take another individual much longer, be very aware of that and do not assume and apply your situation to everyone. Even taking your estimates, I have demonstrated the amount of time and tedium that selling the salvage presents itself. 

I'm gunna field this one. Salvage capacity is much higher then INSP or Recipe capacity. So you can go much longer. I really just regularly clean up after myself though and don't normally have a problem. Also not collecting white salvage doesn't change the rate at which one gets other salvage. Though I very much find this a "is the juice worth the squeeze" issue. It really depends on if it's a feasible code to implement. I wont call you lazy...but... isn't that what most QoL issues boil down to? A group of people find something more work then they are willing to put in?

[ShardWarrior]

8 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

You made a terrible argument about how it will affect the market (it won't), you tried to say it doesn't affect people (for their time in the game), when it does.

I made no such claims that it would affect the market or cause some kind of crash.  I simply stated that having an abundant supply is what helps keep prices low.  That is basic knowledge of economics, and as far as I know, not all items are seeded in the AH. 

 

And I am sorry to be blunt, but calculating out the literal seconds it takes you to dump salvage over a years length of time as "proof" that it takes a long time to dump unwanted salvage is asinine.   You are spending far, far more time in game waiting for load screens, traveling to mission doors and such.  Should those have a P2W options to get rid of those too?  The amount of Developer effort to make this is far longer than it would take for you to delete or vendor unwanted salvage, which is wasted time that could be spent on something far, far more important in my opinion.

[ZacKing]

23 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

It is not just laziness that drives this, and honestly even if so... who wants to go /ah after just about every mission to avoid salvage filling up? I certainly don't. I mentioned before just how easily the time accumulates to sell this stuff through the AH, I wouldn't call people "lazy" for not wanting to sell it to be quite honest. What takes you, someone who is practiced at keyboard clicking/typing 30 seconds to do, may take another individual much longer, be very aware of that and do not assume and apply your situation to everyone. Even taking your estimates, I have demonstrated the amount of time and tedium that selling the salvage presents itself. 

Yeah man it totally about laziness and has nothing to do with some weird complex series keyboard clicks.  If you don't want the stuff, go to any vendor and click the sell button a few times.  Problem solved.   you're assuming every single item available in the game is being seeded into the market.  where's the list? 

 

the amount of Dev time needed for this is a lot more than your whacky time calculations and that's time much better spent on other things. 

[Zeraphia]

37 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I made no such claims that it would affect the market or cause some kind of crash.

 

3 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Having an abundant supply is a good thing.  This is what keeps the prices low.

That sounds like it would affect the market by "keeping prices low"... I don't understand this logic /shrugs. You can't say how something would affect the market (you literally said "an abundant supply is a good thing. This is what keeps the prices low." this statement clearly reflects that you believe the abundant supply is affecting the market, as such keeping the salvage forcibly on is what is what will keep the salvage prices low), then turn around and say you made no such claims of how it would impact it. 

37 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You are spending far, far more time in game waiting for load screens, traveling to mission doors and such.  Should those have a P2W options to get rid of those too?  The amount of Developer effort to make this is far longer than it would take for you to delete or vendor unwanted salvage, which is wasted time that could be spent on something far, far more important in my opinion.

Do you know how long exactly it will take? Or the effort to produce this? The technology appears to be there, there already is rejections for recipes and inspirations, of various kinds. There are certainly a lot more things Homecoming has added several things that I am fairly certain required less work to implement than this would. The example demonstrated actually 1/4 a year (literally a season), at very casual conditions, definitely not something someone more serious/more into the game would spend and it didn't even factor in things like farming. I'd hazard to say as well that it can take a lot of people a lot longer than even the 30 seconds projected. Once again, I am only guessing like you are, but I do not think this will take as long to implement as say, Katana animations, a new powerset, new IOs, etc. all of which arguably could potentially impact a lot less people than this QoL change could. 

 

Asking to resolve load times has several components that are not easy to fix or even resolvable period. This isn't comparing the same things. 

 

I do not think this is even an "unimportant" suggestion, there are lots of people who I've talked with in game who really want this feature. I myself thought this feature even existed, and was disappointed that it didn't. I've seen help requests for it in the "Help" channel actually several times (like how to reject them, they don't know that it just doesn't exist.) This would be a massive QoL feature for many people. If you don't want the feature, you don't have to have it, but there are many who do want this feature. 

43 minutes ago, Snowdaze said:

 

I'm gunna field this one. Salvage capacity is much higher then INSP or Recipe capacity. So you can go much longer. I really just regularly clean up after myself though and don't normally have a problem. Also not collecting white salvage doesn't change the rate at which one gets other salvage. Though I very much find this a "is the juice worth the squeeze" issue. It really depends on if it's a feasible code to implement. I wont call you lazy...but... isn't that what most QoL issues boil down to? A group of people find something more work then they are willing to put in?

That is true, but the rate at which salvage drops is higher than all of those, by a significant margin. I would not say "you can go much longer" you actually go about the same if not less. In specific, "not collecting white salvage doesn't change the rate at which one gets other salvage" is very misleading. The white salvage can BLOCK the other salvage by filling up your inventory so quickly. 

 

You also use inspirations during battle (so you have higher turnovers), you don't use salvage during battle. 

 

Recipes drop significantly less than salvage does.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Zeraphia

[ShardWarrior]

4 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

Do you know how long exactly it will take?

No, but I will be you real money it will take longer than the few seconds it takes for you to dump unwanted salvage.

[Zeraphia]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

No, but I will be you real money it will take longer than the few seconds it takes for you to dump unwanted salvage.

The several hours?

 

I'm not claiming I've dealt with it all at once, but over time as I've demonstrated, it adds up significantly. This is again totally ignoring the fact you have to sell them, or "get rid of them" over and over and over and over and over again.

[ZacKing]

6 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

That sounds like it would affect the market by "keeping prices low"... I don't understand this logic /shrugs.

Didn't pay attention in economics class in school I take it...

 

7 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

Do you know how long exactly it will take? Or the effort to produce this? The technology appears to be there, there already is rejections for recipes and inspirations, of various kinds. There are certainly a lot more things Homecoming has added several things that I am fairly certain required less work to implement than this would.

Yeah guaranteed it's going to take a hell of a lot longer than it would for you to vendor salvage or delete the stack. 

[Zeraphia]

1 minute ago, ZacKing said:

Didn't pay attention in economics class in school I take it...

 

Yeah guaranteed it's going to take a hell of a lot longer than it would for you to vendor salvage or delete the stack. 

You keep looking at it per stack, you aren't addressing that you have to deal with it constantly the entire time you're playing the game.

 

Made an A, and took it two years ago. The market is seeded. It makes no difference whether the option is there or not because it is seeded, will never end, this person claimed it would keep the prices low, then claimed it wouldn't affect the market... 

[ShardWarrior]

4 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

The several hours?

 

I'm not claiming I've dealt with it all at once, but over time as I've demonstrated, it adds up significantly. This is again totally ignoring the fact you have to sell them, or "get rid of them" over and over and over and over and over again.

Sorry, it just does not take several hours to delete salvage and trying to claim that over a year period it may in total add up to a few minutes is a very poor argument.  You have to clear unwanted recipes, enhancements, inspirations and the like too.  Should those all have options to disable as well because over the course of your entire lifetime you will have spent a few minutes clicking to sell or dump them? 

[ZacKing]

1 minute ago, Zeraphia said:

You keep looking at it per stack, you aren't addressing that you have to deal with it constantly the entire time you're playing the game.

So what?  It still isn't a lot of effort. 

 

1 minute ago, Zeraphia said:

The market is seeded.

With what?  In what quantity?  How often? 

[Zeraphia]

Just now, ZacKing said:

So what?  It still isn't a lot of effort. 

 

With what?  In what quantity?  How often? 

There is an infinite supply of all salvage....

[ZacKing]

3 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

There is an infinite supply of all salvage....

So if I log in the game right now and look up a Pangean soil, the quantity available will say infinity??   You didn't answer what gets seeded how often and in what quantity....

[Zeraphia]

1 minute ago, ZacKing said:

So if I log in the game right now and look up a Pangean soil, the quantity available will say infinity??   You didn't answer what gets seeded how often and in what quantity....

ALL salvage is SEEDED there is an INFINITE supply, that's where there are BILLIONS of them like the other poster pointed out...

[ZacKing]

Just now, Zeraphia said:

ALL salvage is SEEDED there is an INFINITE supply, that's where there are BILLIONS of them like the other poster pointed out...

I ask again, if I log into the game right now, the amount of Pangean soils available will say infinity?  And I'm still waiting to hear what items are seeded how often in what quantity.  A link to a dev post that specifies this would be sufficient.  I'll wait.

[Zeraphia]

2 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

I ask again, if I log into the game right now, the amount of Pangean soils available will say infinity?  And I'm still waiting to hear what items are seeded how often in what quantity.  A link to a dev post that specifies this would be sufficient.  I'll wait.

 

05/09/19

 

• Arenas Enabled
• Salvage Market seeded to keep costs down: 10K for common salvage, 100K for uncommon salvage, 1M for rare salvage, and 50K for a Brainstorm Idea

This has continued to be the case since this patch.

[ZacKing]

4 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

This has continued to be the case since this patch.

LOL this doesn't mean they just dump every bit of salvage in there every day.  It's still relying on players putting salvage into the AH. It also doesn't say what items how often and in what quantity.  For all you know, they drop a few dozen items in once a quarter for stuff that is low in supply to keep the prices down.

Edited May 13, 2020 by ZacKing

[Zeraphia]

1 minute ago, ZacKing said:

LOL this doesn't mean they just dump every bit of salvage in there every day.  It's still relying on players putting salvage into the AH. 

Actually yes... yes it does... feel free to get a dev or GM to comment on this.

[Snowdaze]

29 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

That is true, but the rate at which salvage drops is higher than all of those, by a significant margin. I would not say "you can go much longer" you actually go about the same if not less. In specific, "not collecting white salvage doesn't change the rate at which one gets other salvage" is very misleading. The white salvage can BLOCK the other salvage by filling up your inventory so quickly. 

 

You also use inspirations during battle (so you have higher turnovers), you don't use salvage during battle. 

 

Recipes drop significantly less than salvage does.

While yes, salvage is more common then recipes, I can still run a 5 arc farm with my farmer and not fill up my salvage. I think sell/craft/store everything, and repeat.
It just takes soooo much time to fill salvage up, that you have ample opportunity to clean out.

[MTeague]

I don't object to a refusal option existing. I'd never use it, but really, what is the difference between an annoyed player right now every so often taking time to look at their salvage and delete stacks of white salvage vs a happier player having an auto-refuse option?

 

[ShardWarrior]

6 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

Actually yes... yes it does... feel free to get a dev or GM to comment on this.

This is still reliant upon players adding things to the auction house.

[MTeague]

9 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

LOL this doesn't mean they just dump every bit of salvage in there every day.  It's still relying on players putting salvage into the AH. It also doesn't say what items how often and in what quantity.  For all you know, they drop a few dozen items in once a quarter for stuff that is low in supply to keep the prices down.

I doubt GM's did it by hand the first time or an ongoing basis.  I'm sure they have a Loop or SQL Query they run to identify salvage with seeded inventory less than X, X-Actual = Z, add Z much more stock at seeded price to bring it back up to their preferred levels.  Whether they truly do this every 24 hours or 1xWeek or even 1xMonth is irrelevant. They can do it, and if salvage levels dropped to a level they considered to be threatening the stablity of the game, thye would act. 

 

Doesn't necessarily mean they'd act to preserve what player-posted pricing has been... maybe every so often I'd need to pay 10,000 for a piece of common salvage.

Would I blink a few times in disbelief at first?  Sure.

Would it really be anything even remotely approaching a problem as long as there is still some available?  No.

[Chance Jackson]

4 hours ago, Zeraphia said:

let's say 1 second to recognize it's there

another 2 to open the ah

another 3 to wait for the prompt and put in 1

that adds up to hours of time after how frequent they drop dedicated toward selling them or ignoring them and not getting any good drops.

this is all for chicken feed in terms of inf gain.

 

there is an abundant supply, that doesn't mean it's a good thing. this is a seeded economy with billions of them already, we dont need players to put in more or contribute to the supply because it's endless. the prices are hardly dependent on what players sell due to the seeding and the massive volume of them.

 

they clog up my inventory, they're awful, they're a waste of time, there are often hundreds of them after selling is done.

 

no thank you. reject!

Only sell them when you're up to 100-130 salvage & dump each type at 10 at a time

[ZacKing]

9 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

Actually yes... yes it does... feel free to get a dev or GM to comment on this.

Players still need to sell stuff for this man.  Seeding doesn't auto set everything to infinity, it just fills in the gaps to keep it within a threshold the devs want.  There's a whole subforum about marketing here with people buying and selling stuff all the time. 

[ZacKing]

2 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I doubt GM's did it by hand the first time or an ongoing basis.  I'm sure they have a Loop or SQL Query they run to identify salvage with seeded inventory less than X, X-Actual = Z, add Z much more stock at seeded price to bring it back up to their preferred levels.  Whether they truly do this every 24 hours or 1xWeek or even 1xMonth is irrelevant. They can do it, and if salvage levels dropped to a level they considered to be threatening the stablity of the game, thye would act. 

Of course.  that doesn't mean infinite supply though.  It's still relying on players to contribute.

[MTeague]

1 minute ago, ZacKing said:

Of course.  that doesn't mean infinite supply though.  It's still relying on players to contribute.

A non-infinite quantity in the billions or trillions is ... mighty close to effectively infinite when you're dealing with a player base in the thousands.  

I have zero fear that anything would actually become unavailable.

I do think player-stocked inventory might become unavailable, but that's a different beast.