Am I the world's worst MasterMind player or is it a class design I don't understand?

[Neiska]

56 minutes ago, kiramon said:

Lol. 

Did we just try to make fetch happen?

No idea what you mean by that, but what I meant is when your pets start dying off your res will be overwhelmed, due to fewer pets being able to share the body guard damage. Once you loose 3 or 4 you get over taken very quickly, with regards to farming half the moon map at a time.

[DrBasics]

Well I guess this can just be boiled down to a bit of both? I amt he worst MM and also I don't understand the class because it takes too much micromanaging for results that equal minimal effort on other AT's. (Understand that I am not hating and I am not trying to disrespect the MM AT, I love MMs but this is the conclusion I came to after reading comments on this thread and others)

[Force Redux]

I just did a TPN this week, which has the team running all over, and did just fine with my Demon/Dark. Lost the occasional minion, but resummoning periodically isn't a big deal. Especially because unlike a Defender, you can use your secondary while still putting out damage. MMs are the ultimate multitaskers. 🙂

 

MMs give you the best of two worlds: solid support and good sustained damage, but you do have a little bit more work to do managing pets to keep that advantage. If you can manage the peaks and valleys, is a great class.

 

Of course, it's okay if it doesn't ring your bell. Loads of players love blasters and brutes but I find them both unsatisfying. Doesn't mean they are bad...

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Force Redux

[IronJuke]

On 8/3/2020 at 8:43 PM, TheSpiritFox said:

My thugs/time, thugs/traps, and demons nature are my three tankiest mms, all 3 can handle +4x8 solo. Council is easy, something like malta or arachnos is legit harder and can be time consuming. 

Spirit, can you (or someone else) share your Thugs Time Build?   I have almost leveled my TT MM up all the way but am finding it dissapointing.

 

I have a friend who absolutely loves the build and is doing really well with it.   

 

OP, great post!  I can relate, maybe MM's aren't for everyone 😞  

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by IronJuke

[Nyghtmaire]

Agree whole-heartedly with @Force Redux. MMs invite a playstyle in which you’re directing your damage (ie pets) as a way to interact with the game, on top of any support, debuffing, or direct damage from the player itself. It’s a different layer of engagement. This type has more in common with playing a strategic board/war game, while ALSO playing COH in the *usual* way.

[TheSpiritFox]

On 8/18/2020 at 6:59 PM, IronJuke said:

Spirit, can you (or someone else) share your Thugs Time Build?   I have almost leveled my TT MM up all the way but am finding it dissapointing.

 

I have a friend who absolutely loves the build and is doing really well with it.   

 

OP, great post!  I can relate, maybe MM's aren't for everyone 😞  

 

I did not save it in mids I just kinda built it as i went. Its not even overly optimized as a build. But with all the pet uniques in place. Bonfire really helps with survivability at higher levels but even so this is a build designed around the pets tanking, all of my MMs I end up enjoying are. I have and will never build an MM around taking provoke. If I wanted to taunt things I'd play an actual tanking class. I send the pets in and follow them into melee and short of losing a pet to the alpha once in a while, once they're all in my -tohit aura with softcap in place stuff is pretty damn hard to kill before the AOE heal that's a really solid heal for MMs with the up front part and the over time part helping prevent overhealing. 

 

At the same time I mean I put two slots in vengeance for Christs sake. That's a wasted slot that could have at the very least given gang war another recharge. I'm just too lazy to respec to move a few slots around. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by TheSpiritFox

[TheSpiritFox]

On 8/19/2020 at 11:29 AM, Nyghtmaire said:

Agree whole-heartedly with @Force Redux. MMs invite a playstyle in which you’re directing your damage (ie pets) as a way to interact with the game, on top of any support, debuffing, or direct damage from the player itself. It’s a different layer of engagement. This type has more in common with playing a strategic board/war game, while ALSO playing COH in the *usual* way.

I build and play my MMs as support characters with a directable pocket team. And I really feel like if that's your playstyle, the class like fully shines. Personal attacks are always underwhelming for me. Like I get it, the pets are there we can't give MMs a real attack chain of their own that's silly but at the same time even if the damage added can be somewhat significant if I wanted to play a direct damage character I mean I have a bunch of those too. Playing an MM is the most relaxing thing for me because I just take and maximize my secondary contribution, max out what my pets can do, and build every MM as if I am a blastless defender with a pocket team or something. I give myself two travel powers because why tf not, I take TP friend when I can and take it early along with super speed for stealthing things if need be or just helpfully warping a dead body where it can be rezzed. 

 

Making my MMs support focused with their personal power use lets me play MMs that pretty well stay on the strategic board/war game level during engagements I don't have to do damage, my pets do it for me.  This also means at this point I honestly do not enjoy playing non demons/thugs mms because those sets have both the defenses and the damage to allow me to build a support focused character with respectable DPS that's tanky as fuck and the other MM sets simply do not add up to the balance of damage and survivability that thugs and demons can field with a remotely good build. I would have 5 bots MMs if they gave Bots a fucking mule power for pet sets. 

 

But someone in a group I was in once said everyone else in City of Heroes is a star in an action movie while MMs are more like sitting back in a directors chair watching and i kinda build my MMs towards that concept and it's fun as hell. Chillest MMO playstyle in existence. I actually get to watch what's going on in the game, not just watch my power bars for power recharges. Its like the opposite of scrapperlock. 

 

And at the same time, some of the support secondaries are kinda bannanas in what they can be made to do. Dark, Rad, Traps, Time, Thermal, and now Elec are all crazy good support sets in their own ways that can let you pretty effectively neuter enemy spawns. And no group ever complains when they realize that their mastermind qualifies as a support as much as DPS. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by TheSpiritFox

[Force Redux]

@TheSpiritFox That pretty much sums up my MM experience. And it is a "master mind" so the director's chair experience is part and parcel of the archetype concept. You coordinate, plot, plan and orchestrate! 🙂

 

Yeah, unless its Demons/Thugs/Beasts, I tend to not play those...other than Necro, because I like Necro even though they are not the pinnacle, they are fun. 

[TheSpiritFox]

Just now, Force Redux said:

@TheSpiritFox That pretty much sums up my MM experience. And it is a "master mind" so the director's chair experience is part and parcel of the archetype concept. You coordinate, plot, plan and orchestrate! 🙂

 

Yeah, unless its Demons/Thugs/Beasts, I tend to not play those...other than Necro, because I like Necro even though they are not the pinnacle, they are fun. 

I gave Zombies/Elec a try and like I really tried to like it, but I realized that zombies as melee pets are just underwhelming as fuck and without like the zippiness of beast/kin melee pets are always just irritating as fuck to have to try to control and wait for them to wander around to smack enemies a few times. It felt slow solo and worse in groups. The best thing they could do for Zombies that would make me actually play them is give them some 28 Days Later fast zombie animations so they can at least like sprint from group to group with some kinda actual menace. No the zombies hurr durr their way around the level and it feels like I am babysitting disabled people not playing a class. 

[Nyghtmaire]

2 hours ago, Force Redux said:

other than Necro, because I like Necro even though they are not the pinnacle, they are fun. 

I have a soft brain spot for necro. They’re my favorite primary. I know they have mediocre damage relative to others, and their AOE... lets not talk about that either. It’s a pacing I enjoy and, at this point, the controls are like second nature. 
 

@TheSpiritFoxi really like the director analogy. Sublime summation.

[Force Redux]

1 hour ago, Nyghtmaire said:

I have a soft brain spot for necro. They’re my favorite primary. I know they have mediocre damage relative to others, and their AOE... lets not talk about that either. It’s a pacing I enjoy and, at this point, the controls are like second nature. 
 

@TheSpiritFoxi really like the director analogy. Sublime summation.

I like my Necro/Dark as a damage dealing controller/debuffing hybrid. In that role it excels 😀☠️. It's like a Dark controller, but more damage. That's cause Lich mini controller abilities, plus KD zombie procs and Knock up Knights are a thing that go so well with Dark Fluffy and the rest. It's truly the one Necro combo that really comes off as top tier if you like control and debuffs. 😎