Rework Black Hole (for PvE only)

[pearbear]

Abilities like Black Hole from Dark Miasma and Dimension Shift from Gravity Control had some utility back in Issue 1 where leveling was all "street sweeping," but now they only genuinely have a place in PvP. That is fine, but it is also very easy to rework it in PvE environments as well into some form of soft control or even a sleep. These are powers everyone skips currently, and I'd love for them to become competitive options putting more power decision in the hands of the heroes. That's all - thanks. 🙂

Edited August 25, 2020 by pearbear

[Solarverse]

What's wrong with Demension Shift? I use mine often, especially after they reworked it.

 

As far as it becoming a sleep, please not. Sleeps are pointless unless it is the AoE Elec Sleep that refreshes.

 

Can't say about Black Hole, but Demension Shift is perfect. They are only unaffected if you are standing outside the shift. If you move inside, you phase with them and can attack and be attacked.

[pearbear]

6 hours ago, Solarverse said:

What's wrong with Demension Shift? I use mine often, especially after they reworked it.

 

As far as it becoming a sleep, please not. Sleeps are pointless unless it is the AoE Elec Sleep that refreshes.

 

Can't say about Black Hole, but Demension Shift is perfect. They are only unaffected if you are standing outside the shift. If you move inside, you phase with them and can attack and be attacked.

I did not know they changed it! I just brought it up because it was like Black Hole back in the day. What about Black Hole??

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, pearbear said:

I did not know they changed it! I just brought it up because it was like Black Hole back in the day. What about Black Hole??

I honestly can't say. I *heard* that Black Hole is the same it's always been, even the description indicates nothing has changed because it's the same description.

Dimension Shift: Location-targeted AoE toggle. This power folds space in an area, immobilizing and phasing all targets within the sphere. Enemies who enter the area become immobilized and phased for the duration of the effect. Allies who enter the sphere's area of effect will enter the phase as well, allowing them to combat phased enemies. Detoggling this power ends the effect, bringing the phased creatures back into the physical world. Maintaining this dimensional distortion is taxing on the user, and cannot be done for more than 20 seconds.

Black Hole on the other hand: Opens up a Black Hole to the Netherworld that temporarily pulls in all foes within its grasp. The victims become phase shifted and are completely intangible. They are hard to see, and cannot affect or be affected by those in normal space.

 

Yeah, Black Hole could use some love...but as far as Dimension Shift, I would say that is a great mechanic and the most unique power in game. It can frustrate team mates though, since most players don't understand how it works. Most people think it's the same as the old version. So I save it for mobs that over aggro more than a tank can handle and phase them out while the team works on the other mob. If anyone complains, I explain to them that all they need to do is enter the bubble to attack the mobs. That is usually followed up with, "Oh wow, that is cool...now I'm going to have to make a Grav!"  😄

[Uun]

Dimension Shift was changed on live in I22. Black Hole hasn't changed, but really should get the same treatment.

[Solarverse]

So after getting my ass chewed for using Dimension Shift today, I feel like maybe the power could use an ever so slight tweak.

Here is what happened... The other player's name was abbreviated to conceal identity....since this is not a bash player gripe, but rather a conversation that shows maybe the power could use a slight tweak since we cannot control how other people play. Here was the situation...

It was the second to the last mission on the Yin TF, just after you go up the elevators just after the cut scene. Down this long hall, there are 4 total mobs, 2 mobs up front and 2 mobs in the back. My goal was to keep the mobs in back locked in place until the mobs up front could be dealt with, that way the mobs won't over aggro or scatter. So I used Dimension Shift on the mob in the back. I was level 25 at the time.

[Team] MF: [BLEEP]ing god [BLEEP}ed dimension shift
[Team] Australia Prime: Yeah, what's wrong with it?
[Team] MF: piece of {BLEEP} power that ruins ranged attacks.  wasted buildup and two aoes
[Team] Australia Prime: So you attacked the mob way in back instead of the ones in front of you? Also, if you go inside the bubble, you can attack them
[Team] MF: the big clumped together ones?  yeah
[Team] Australia Prime: There were two grouped up mobs, both mobs were clumped together
[Team] MF: clumped as in within visual range or clumped for aoes?
[Team] MF: perfect chance to wormhole the two groups together
[Team] Australia Prime: If I had it
[Team] MF: oof

So as you can see, due to this player's choice to skip the mobs up front and go straight for the mobs in the back, he ended up wasting his build up and 2 AoE's. Keep in mind, this is not about what he should have done or what I should have done, this is about two conflicting play styles that honestly, should not conflict with just a slight tweak to Dimension Shift. The tweak that I propose is to give it a 5 second timer before it converts mobs untouchable by players. This gives people a chance to realize the mobs have been placed in DS before they waste their powers...and if they cast their powers at the same time as you cast DS, the initial attack will still go through. If a player can't figure out by this point that Dimension Shift has been used, that's on them, but at least they will not waste their initial strikes.

Now, there is a down side to this that I think should be obvious, the caster of DS will take an alpha strike for 5 seconds before the mobs can no longer attack...for this, I suggest a Mag 6 stun for 5 seconds...this will cover the time that the caster is vulnerable to attack by the mob.

So the en result, is that the player who did not realize you were going to cast DS, does not waste their powers, and you as the caster will not suffer for using the power and everyone can be happy.


P.S. And just found out that I was placed on ignore over it...a bit extreme, but that's pretty harsh when a simple power can cause a player to be ignored by another. Just another reason why it might be a good idea to give it a slight tweak. Just by me using the power one single time was enough to get somebody to ignore me.. So it would seem players are pretty harsh about the ability as it stands...so rather me avoid using it at all, it would be nice to see it tweaked a bit.
 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Solarverse

[arcane]

16 hours ago, Solarverse said:

So after getting my ass chewed for using Dimension Shift today, I feel like maybe the power could use an ever so slight tweak.

Here is what happened... The other player's name was abbreviated to conceal identity....since this is not a bash player gripe, but rather a conversation that shows maybe the power could use a slight tweak since we cannot control how other people play. Here was the situation...

It was the second to the last mission on the Yin TF, just after you go up the elevators just after the cut scene. Down this long hall, there are 4 total mobs, 2 mobs up front and 2 mobs in the back. My goal was to keep the mobs in back locked in place until the mobs up front could be dealt with, that way the mobs won't over aggro or scatter. So I used Dimension Shift on the mob in the back. I was level 25 at the time.

[Team] MF: [BLEEP]ing god [BLEEP}ed dimension shift
[Team] Australia Prime: Yeah, what's wrong with it?
[Team] MF: piece of {BLEEP} power that ruins ranged attacks.  wasted buildup and two aoes
[Team] Australia Prime: So you attacked the mob way in back instead of the ones in front of you? Also, if you go inside the bubble, you can attack them
[Team] MF: the big clumped together ones?  yeah
[Team] Australia Prime: There were two grouped up mobs, both mobs were clumped together
[Team] MF: clumped as in within visual range or clumped for aoes?
[Team] MF: perfect chance to wormhole the two groups together
[Team] Australia Prime: If I had it
[Team] MF: oof

So as you can see, due to this player's choice to skip the mobs up front and go straight for the mobs in the back, he ended up wasting his build up and 2 AoE's. Keep in mind, this is not about what he should have done or what I should have done, this is about two conflicting play styles that honestly, should not conflict with just a slight tweak to Dimension Shift. The tweak that I propose is to give it a 5 second timer before it converts mobs untouchable by players. This gives people a chance to realize the mobs have been placed in DS before they waste their powers...and if they cast their powers at the same time as you cast DS, the initial attack will still go through. If a player can't figure out by this point that Dimension Shift has been used, that's on them, but at least they will not waste their initial strikes.

Now, there is a down side to this that I think should be obvious, the caster of DS will take an alpha strike for 5 seconds before the mobs can no longer attack...for this, I suggest a Mag 6 stun for 5 seconds...this will cover the time that the caster is vulnerable to attack by the mob.

So the en result, is that the player who did not realize you were going to cast DS, does not waste their powers, and you as the caster will not suffer for using the power and everyone can be happy.


P.S. And just found out that I was placed on ignore over it...a bit extreme, but that's pretty harsh when a simple power can cause a player to be ignored by another. Just another reason why it might be a good idea to give it a slight tweak. Just by me using the power one single time was enough to get somebody to ignore me.. So it would seem players are pretty harsh about the ability as it stands...so rather me avoid using it at all, it would be nice to see it tweaked a bit.
 

I think it's pretty obviously on him for not knowing what powers do. Not a reason to change a good power IMO.

[Solarverse]

6 hours ago, arcaneholocaust said:

I think it's pretty obviously on him for not knowing what powers do. Not a reason to change a good power IMO.

He had no way to predict what I was going to do though. He just happened to hit Build-Up and his two AoE's at the exact same time that I used Dimension Shift. To me, although I personally would not have attacked the mob in the rear first, but as long as he can handle the alpha strike for attacking the rear mob before the Tank can get there, then why not? Who am I to judge...but again, he had no way of knowing that I was going to cast Dimension Shift, so I don't really see it as him not knowing what powers do, he seemed to recognize it right away, it was just too late is all.