How do Sniper attacks work?

[StrikerFox]

What's the cast time of an ancillary snipe? Is it just the regular cast minus the interrupt time? 

[aethereal]

7 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

What's the cast time of an ancillary snipe? Is it just the regular cast minus the interrupt time? 

Per the powers api, it's 1.33 seconds nominal cast time, and thus presumably 1.584 seconds arcanatime.

[beradical]

Alright everyone, thanks to your collective advice, and a week of grinding on beta tracking ST & MT dps, I'm getting close to my final build.

 

Here are my conclusions, and questions:

1. I went Charged Brawl over Havoc Punch. Base ST dps is 167 w/CB vs 145 w/HP, timing of CB > CI > CB > AS works perfectly, stacks 3 AF for crit, hit Zp & Jdgmt when up.
2. Replaced Spring Attack w Ball Lightning, my MT dps (on S&L farm) went from 268 to 287.
3. Swapped Agility w Musculature and it went to 350.
4. Switched from Assault Radial to Core, it went to 374 (stacking +15% dmg likes AoE, even if telenukes do better with radial).
5. Proc'd attacks, and my dps went to 413.

A sustained 413, up from 268. Holy hell you people are awesome. Procs are awesome on this build, the numbers are there.

 

But I noticed I was dying a lot more, esp on ITF when defense debuffs got me (Agility +def offset this previously). In looking at Frosticus's Sav/Shield Stalker I see that ignoring Resistances was my mistake. So I'm currently running this build on beta w greatly improved survivability, losing some global rech, end, dmg, acc and def.

1. This toon is much more survivable, and has OwtS for tough fights & def dbuff. The resists are noticeable.
2. Global dmg went down but my dps wasn't too impacted, maybe because procs don't scale?
   1. I can accept losing some +dmg set bonuses, but I wish I could keep Assault. Is Assault more valuable than OwtS?
3. Acc went down, but @ base 39% in mids for +4 mobs still near 95%, not even counting BU. I think accuracy is fine, and I don't need Tactics.
4. Def is no longer soft-capped, which sucks, but I'm not too far off (around 43% situationals). Can we call this close enough?
5. Rech went down, but I can still sustain continuous ST & MT attack chains, very close to perma-hasten. It's as close as I could get.
6. End starts to drop during last 30s of Ageless, esp MT fights, but I haven't detoggled (yet). OwtS give +recovery, not bad on ST fights (AV fight, etc). It's not good but manageable...

How could I improve this build? My main goal is AoE damage, that's why I rolled Elec/Shld Stalker, but I need to still provide serious ST dmg for the AV fights, and stay alive 😃

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Collateral Damage: Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(43)
Level 2: Deflection -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-ResDam%(3), Rct-Def/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-Max HP%(19), UnbGrd-ResDam(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(48)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(5), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(5)
Level 6: Assassin's Shock -- SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(A), Hct-Dmg(7), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), TchofDth-Dam%(45), Mk'Bit-Dam%(45), GldStr-%Dam(46)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(9), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(9), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(17), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--Build%(43)
Level 10: True Grit -- GldArm-End/Res(A), GldArm-RechRes(11), GldArm-RechEnd(11), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(13), GldArm-ResDam(15), GldArm-3defTpProc(17)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(15), BlsoftheZ-Travel(25), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(46)
Level 16: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), GldStr-Acc/Dmg(19), Hct-Dam%(31), Mk'Bit-Dam%(34), GldStr-%Dam(37), TchofDth-Dam%(45)
Level 20: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25)
Level 26: Thunder Strike -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(27), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(27), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Obl-%Dam(40)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg(33), Arm-Dam%(33), Erd-%Dam(34), Obl-%Dam(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(37)
Level 38: Zapp -- StnoftheM-Dam%(A), Apc-Dam%(39), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(39), GldJvl-Dam%(40), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(42), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Rgn-Knock%(43)
Level 44: Grant Cover -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 47: One with the Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 49: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Assassination
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(23)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(21)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
------------

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by beradical

[beradical]

Meh, my best advice is to ignore my advice. 

 

dps can vary wildly from fight to fight - I'll get 415 one farm clear, then 385 the next? But with 3 runs you start to get an average and a rough idea, but it would take 10s of runs per build variation to really get any objective numbers.

 

That said, I was playing around with a few more options, and went all purples for shits and giggles, and got my personal best MT dps of 433, next run 418. So I took the same build and went at a pylon,  hitting ST 238, just shy of my best pylon runs 245 w procs.

 

I don't know enough about how dmg is calculated from procs and crits, but the raw data in my combat logs shows that my best ST run was proc'd, but that cost my MT chains more than I gained. My best MT run was purp'd maxing recharge and a crap ton of dmg boost.

 

I suspect that recharge helps the dps of this AT since I'm trying to leverage two separate 4 power attack chains for ST & MT. Proc dps doesn't seem to improve with dmg or rech boosts from sets, and I dont have enough global recharge to run 2 separate attack chains without gaps. For this particular build I'm going back to some purples and set bonuses to maximize resistance. Either way I'm just not seeing the numbers to support losing set bonuses in lieu of heavily proc'd build.

 

I'll leave my telenukes partially proc'd since they have a lower damage cap, but I think this balance gives me max survivability, MT dmg, solid ST dmg, and plenty of endurance.

[aethereal]

Correct, +damage does not change proc damage.  Almost nothing affects the damage of procs -- the only thing that really will cause an enemy to take more damage from a proc per se is a -res debuff.  Aside from that, all you can do is try to get the proc to fire more frequently (ie, global recharge + using the attack as soon as it's off cooldown).

 

One generally gives up a lot to really proc out a character, because you need to, first, give up all set bonuses in several attacks that would normally carry some global recharge/defense, and second, you tend to want to build heavily for global recharge, since that's what really improves procs, and that tends to leave you Very Short On Mitigation.

 

I had hoped that the secret sauce of proccing a character was to just build a tank, since they simply don't really need significant amounts of mitigation from their set bonuses, and their lower damage modifier doesn't affect procs, but both my own few experiments there and the overall feeling of the board seems to be that, you know, procs can be good on tanks, but they still won't be competitive with other melee ATs even with a very heavily procced build.

 

(This is why I don't really believe that procs need a nerf.  I do think they need some rounds of simplification, because holy shit are they complicated.)

[Hew]

Zapp/moonbeam +ball lightning I have slotted like this:

 

 

Zapp has the insta-cast proc from experienced marksman, so I can lead or do whatever and don't have to worry about circumstances of insta-cast. I  have +tohit elsewhere in the build(s), which ups damage on the snipe as well, free of charge. The other 3 ios are all damage procs.

 

Ball lightning is 3 procs and acc/dam/end 50+5 from annihilation, the only one I could find that did NOT have a rech component and was a triple. Mids spits out a value of 288/257.5 for ball lightning slotted this way, and 407.5/324.5.

 

Not entirely sure how those numbers work, but all 3 procs in zapp are 90% chance. The three procs in ball lighting (slotted this way) have a 71.8% chance each to fire.

 

My goal with both of these was max damage on min slots, as I burnt through slots elsewhere. 🙂

 

 

[tidge]

4 hours ago, Hew said:

Zapp/moonbeam +ball lightning I have slotted like this:

 

 

Zapp has the insta-cast proc from experienced marksman, so I can lead or do whatever and don't have to worry about circumstances of insta-cast.

 

[...]

 

My goal with both of these was max damage on min slots, as I burnt through slots elsewhere. 🙂

 I get the sense that you know this, but once you are in combat, the snipes automatically become fast snipes. Setting aside the question of bonus damage from a slow snipe, why not replace the insta-snipe Global with a 50+5 damage enhancement?

[beradical]

Ok, one more sniper question -- if I use the Stalker's Guile Chance to Hide, will that cause Zapp to do the slow long animation, like how Assassin's Shock would? If so, is it even worth it if AS & Zapp are half my ST attacks?

 

And would that insta-cast proc affect the hidden mechanics? If so, I could see an argument for putting Chance to Hide in AS, but more and more I'm suspecting a dmg proc in both AS & Zapp would do more than Hide and inst-cast.

Edited September 23, 2020 by beradical

[Omega-202]

6 hours ago, beradical said:

Ok, one more sniper question -- if I use the Stalker's Guile Chance to Hide, will that cause Zapp to do the slow long animation, like how Assassin's Shock would? If so, is it even worth it if AS & Zapp are half my ST attacks?

EDIT: After some new testing, I haven't gotten a random slow snipe after a re-Hide from the proc.  I am not sure what used to happen, but currently its no longer happening.  

Also, the crits were consistently double base damage, so whatever weirdness I was experiencing in the past with "not quite double" snipe crits is no longer happening either.  

 

Revised advice is: use Zapp/Moonbeam directly after AS.  By far the best bang for your buck for the follow-up crit with Electric Melee.

 

 

Original Post for posterity:

Yes, it can force the slow snipe, but its weirdly inconsistent.  That is why I always use AS>CI or BL or in a pinch CB or Mu Bolt, and never AS>Zapp.  

 

Once you get used to the rotation, it really doesn't slow you down.  Muscle memory will kick in and you won't chain AS>Zapp.  

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Omega-202

[beradical]

Ok, and hide forces a crit, which doubles enhanced base dmg, not counting procs from incarnate or enhancements? If so, yeah, it would be more valuable than a standard proc of 71.75 dmg at 53% chance.

[Omega-202]

6 hours ago, beradical said:

Ok, and hide forces a crit, which doubles enhanced base dmg, not counting procs from incarnate or enhancements? If so, yeah, it would be more valuable than a standard proc of 71.75 dmg at 53% chance.

Edit:

Fast snipe consistently does double damage crits from hide (not counting procs or Interface etc.).  That includes the +tohit damage bonus.  

 

 

Original Post:

Sort of...

Hide doubles enhanced (and modified), non proc, non Interface damage on most attacks.  But some are weird.  Snipes are a weird case and I never finished testing exactly how a fast snipe crit from Hide works.  From Hide, slow snipe only does a half crit.

 

From the August 2019 patch:

Epic Snipes

• Will now have a base 1.75 scale damage in their quick form.
• Every point of ToHit buffing the player has will increase or decrease this damage, up to a cap of 2.3 scale damage with +22% ToHit buff.
• Slow form will do 3.56 scale damage
• Slow form crits will do 3.56 + 1.78 scale damage.
• Scrappers should now properly crit 10% of the time, instead of using Stalker requirements.

 

My limited testing indicates that something is also weird with fast snipe crits from Hide.  It's possible its only a half crit, or its possible it doesn't factor in the 22% tohit bonus damage or something.  My guess is that the crit doesn't count the + tohit damage bonus, meaning it is a crit off of a 1.75 base damage. 

 

So, while a fast-snipe might be your best followup out of Hide due to the high base damage (scale 1.75 crit), you need to use the fast snipe proc to do so, and Chain induction isn't very far behind in damage (scale 1.32 crit).  To me, might as well follow up with CI and then Zapp instead of wasting a slot in Zapp to make it useable from mid combat Hide.  

Edited September 23, 2020 by Omega-202

[beradical]

Thank you Omega, once again you've helped a ton.

 

What do you all think about Decimation: Chance of Build Up in Zapp? A 16.7% chance for a 5s BU for an attack every 8.5-9s isn't huge, but 2-4 attacks doing 80% more base dmg is sweet, esp if AS is one of those.

 

The Assassin's Mark proc is huge, seems like BU is always up, plus the Gaussian's proc in BU - but a passive BU from Decimation would be a nice addition to the active BU. In my head. And we've seen how flawed that is.

[Omega-202]

29 minutes ago, beradical said:

Thank you Omega, once again you've helped a ton.

 

What do you all think about Decimation: Chance of Build Up in Zapp? A 16.7% chance for a 5s BU for an attack every 8.5-9s isn't huge, but 2-4 attacks doing 80% more base dmg is sweet, esp if AS is one of those.

 

The Assassin's Mark proc is huge, seems like BU is always up, plus the Gaussian's proc in BU - but a passive BU from Decimation would be a nice addition to the active BU. In my head. And we've seen how flawed that is.

...meh.

 

I haven't used it in Zapp, but I tried it out on ranged epic holds and on lower tier blasts for other ATs.  It should activate more with less recharge slotting (which, for my tastes, I think you have too much +recharge in Zapp, hurting your proc chances).  

 

Let's say you get it to a 30% proc chance (~50% slotted rech redux), and say you can cycle it every 10 seconds in practice.  That's about 1.8 procs per minute.  That's 80% damage boost for an average of 9 seconds every 60, or an average damage enhancement of 12%.  That's not bad, but that's also assuming perfect usage.    

 

To me, it's just unreliable and I've never felt it was that great.  Granted, as a Stalker, you'd need Gaussian's slotted BU, Musculature and Assault Hybrid running at max, with some extra damage set bonuses to self cap at 500%, so the Decimation proc would rarely be a total waste, but all the same, it doesn't ever seem to have enough up time to make an impact.  

[aethereal]

I use AS (with chance to hide) followed by Moonbeam like literally all the time, it has never forced slow-snipe for me.  Moonbeam doesn't get slow because you're hidden, like AS does, it gets slow if you have neither attacked nor been attacked for 8 seconds.

[Hew]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

 I get the sense that you know this, but once you are in combat, the snipes automatically become fast snipes. Setting aside the question of bonus damage from a slow snipe, why not replace the insta-snipe Global with a 50+5 damage enhancement?

Sometimes just get the urge to fire it off auto! I don't like being stuck having to be in combat to activate the instant piece.

 

edit for clarity: This is for a scrappydo, which doesnt get double damage crits from hide on this. 😄 Sorry!

Edited September 23, 2020 by Hew

[Omega-202]

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

I use AS (with chance to hide) followed by Moonbeam like literally all the time, it has never forced slow-snipe for me.  Moonbeam doesn't get slow because you're hidden, like AS does, it gets slow if you have neither attacked nor been attacked for 8 seconds.

EDIT: Retest Complete - see posts above.  

 

Aethereal is correct.  Not sure what changed, but I may have done my original testing in Summer 2019 before the snipe update.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Omega-202

[beradical]

28 minutes ago, aethereal said:

I use AS (with chance to hide) followed by Moonbeam like literally all the time, it has never forced slow-snipe for me.  Moonbeam doesn't get slow because you're hidden, like AS does, it gets slow if you have neither attacked nor been attacked for 8 seconds.

Hell yeah, that just made this proc a lot more useful.

 

In fact, maybe even adding value to the Decimation proc in Zapp which I hit every time it's up.

 

It has 1 PPM (16.7%). With no rech IOs, it will average out (80%/12) to about 6.67% dmg, better than the global 3% I'd get from 4th SotM set piece. Of course, global applies to all attacks, even AoE where I won't be using Zapp as much.

 

But here's the thing - if u/macskull's formula is correct, with NO rech in Zapp, it actually has a 42% chance to proc due to long recharge. That is awesome, but somehow doesn't seem believable or everyone would take it...maybe it's for a non-homecoming build of CoH?

 

> Here's the info I'm using: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cityofheroes/comments/c5ub58/all_about_ppm_procs_per_minute/  specifically "EDIT: u/macskull has information collected into a spreadsheet here."

 

edit: here's the table used to calculate. Activation time is cast time - interrupt? longer actually improves chance to proc btw.

SINGLE-TARGET
PPM amount	1
Activation time	1.33	seconds
Base recharge	24	seconds
Recharge slotting	0.00%	in Pines/Mids
Chance to proc	42.22%

 

Either way I'll roll with it on my new build, which I think is the most balanced build I could muster, with solid def, res, dmg, acc, rech & procs. And not too expensive.

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Collateral Damage: Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Deflection -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-ResDam%(3), Rct-Def/EndRdx(3), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), TtnCtn-ResDam(48), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(19)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(5), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(5)
Level 6: Assassin's Shock -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Hct-Dam%(45), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(45)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(9), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(13), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(17), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--Build%(43)
Level 10: True Grit -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(11), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-Max HP%(15), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(17)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(50)
Level 16: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(45)
Level 20: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(25)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 26: Thunder Strike -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(27), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Arm-Dam%(29)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ScrDrv-Dam%(33), Obl-Dmg(34), Obl-%Dam(34), Erd-%Dam(40)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(36), ScrDrv-Dam%(36), Obl-Dmg(36), Obl-%Dam(37), Erd-%Dam(37)
Level 38: Zapp -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(39), StnoftheM-Dam%(39), Apc-Dam%(39), GldJvl-Dam%(40), Dcm-Build%(40)
Level 41: Ball Lightning -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(33), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(42), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(42), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(42), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(43)
Level 44: Grant Cover -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 47: One with the Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 49: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(23), Mrc-Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(21)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
------------

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by beradical

[Omega-202]

That's completely correct.  With no recharge slotted, it should be at ~42% on the snipes.  

 

25.33 / 60 = 42.2%

 

At 42.2%, assuming you can still cycle it every 10 s, which you might not be able to without any recharge slotting any more, it averages 16.88% damage boost.

 

You basically have to give up a lot of set bonus opportunity though in order to avoid recharge slotting.  And it makes you other procs way over the 90% cap.  If Decimation is at 42%, Sting is at 3.5 x that, meaning you could slot recharge and maintain 90% capped Sting proc chance.  

 

The reason not everyone slots is because it really only finds use on high base damage ATs, on ranged attacks that you don't slot recharge in.  It's a bit of a niche scenario.  

 

Edit: By comparison, slotting 5 piece Apocalypse gives you 10% recharge, 16% regen, 3% health and 4% damage, with a faster recharge time, better accuracy, more slotted damage boost (that can crit), and still lets you have one additional proc.  Personally, I prefer the consistency in 4% global damage, and a bunch more damage slotting with 10% recharge.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Omega-202

[Pzn]

5 hours ago, beradical said:

But here's the thing - if u/macskull's formula is correct, with NO rech in Zapp, it actually has a 42% chance to proc due to long recharge. That is awesome, but somehow doesn't seem believable or everyone would take it...maybe it's for a non-homecoming build of CoH?

it really is that good.  I run it on my claws/bio in moonbeam and the proc fires off consistently.

[beradical]

On 9/22/2020 at 8:04 PM, beradical said:

That said, I was playing around with a few more options, and went all purples for shits and giggles, and got my personal best MT dps of 433, next run 418. So I took the same build and went at a pylon,  hitting ST 238, just shy of my best pylon runs 245 w procs.

Full disclosure, I just didn't make a good proc build above ^. Some of you awesome people shared your own proc'd out builds with me., which were nothing like mine. Many of these sacrifice a lot in the name of damage, and I'm not quite that adventurous, but I learned a ton in going through them.

 

So I proc'd out what I could, muling less valuable attacks for purps and other set bonuses, and was able to come up with a more proc-centric build that still has "almost" soft-cap (turns out 44.5% defense in Mids equals 43% in game which sucks), decent resistances and solid dmg, rech and accuracy.

 

So then I tested it out in live (not beta), and got over 300 ST dps on a pylon, and over 700 MT dps in AE farm. Massive gains in damage, with acceptable losses in def, res, rech, dmg & acc. The loss in rech hurts the most, losing perma-haste, triple stacking Active Defense, & gapless attack chain. But that gap is ok, at least I have time to pop off AD, Hasten & Agility.

 

My favorite part is putting Stalkers Guile with Hide proc in Shield Charge, so I can go LR > BL w/ crit from hide > SC > TS w/ chance to crit from hide. I didn't like it in AS where I'd prefer dmg, plus it's usually followed up by a weak attack with minimal crity goodness.

 

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Collateral Damage: Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(15), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Deflection -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-ResDam%(3), Rct-Def/EndRdx(3), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), TtnCtn-ResDam(48), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(19)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(5), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(5)
Level 6: Assassin's Shock -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Dam%(7), GldStr-%Dam(45), TchofDth-Dam%(45), Mk'Bit-Dam%(46)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(9), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(13), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(17), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--Build%(43)
Level 10: True Grit -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(11), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-Max HP%(17)
Level 12: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(13)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 16: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), TchofDth-Dam%(34), GldStr-%Dam(37), Mk'Bit-Dam%(45)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(43)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 26: Thunder Strike -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(27), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Arm-Dam%(29)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), ScrDrv-Dam%(33), Obl-Dmg(34), Obl-%Dam(34), Erd-%Dam(40)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(37)
Level 38: Zapp -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(39), StnoftheM-Dam%(39), Apc-Dam%(39), GldJvl-Dam%(40), Dcm-Build%(40)
Level 41: Ball Lightning -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(33), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), PstBls-Dam%(42), JvlVll-Dam%(42), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(46)
Level 44: One with the Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(15)
Level 47: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(23), Mrc-Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(21)
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: Marshal 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
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