My spin on a widow

Hew · September 29, 2020

I don't have a free slot. I respec at 50 to drop it into ball lightning at 49.

edit: This was built to maximize effect without use of hasten (end crash sucks!). It is perma with 5.8 seconds to spare. I built with teaming as my focus. I am a little worried about end costs with 1.29/3.06, but ~35 exemp it drops to .88/3.06.

Updated: Got more this, more that. took mask presence, dropped psyscream which apparently is a load of dog poo, got a bunch of +7.5% run speeds, tinker tinker. I like this better.

GOD do I suck up a lot of end from all the toggles.

Thoughts?

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

1 left respec 50 5 slots bl: Level 50 Science Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe

(A) Empty

Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(3) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 2: Strike

(A) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(45) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(45) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(46) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(46) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge

Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(5) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
(5) Red Fortune - Endurance
(7) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
(7) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 6: Boxing

(A) Empty

Level 8: Follow Up

(A) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
(9) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(46) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
(48) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 10: Indomitable Will

(A) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
(43) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance

Level 12: Spin

(A) Superior Spider's Bite - RechargeTime/Global Toxic
(13) Superior Spider's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
(13) Superior Spider's Bite - Damage/RechargeTime
(15) Superior Spider's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
(15) Superior Spider's Bite - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
(17) Superior Spider's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 14: Lunge

(A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
(19) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
(19) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
(37) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(40) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge

Level 16: Tactical Training: Assault

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(17) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 18: Smoke Grenade

(A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge

Level 20: Slash

(A) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Recharge/Chance for -Dmg and Terrorize
(21) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Accuracy/Damage
(21) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Damage/Recharge
(23) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(23) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(37) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 22: Tactical Training: Leadership

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
(48) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance

Level 24: Foresight

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(25) Red Fortune - Defense
(25) Reactive Defenses - Defense
(34) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
(34) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 26: Eviscerate

(A) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
(27) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
(27) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(29) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
(29) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance

Level 28: Mental Training

(A) Run Speed IO

Level 30: Mind Link

(A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
(31) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
(31) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime
(31) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime
(33) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
(33) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

Level 32: Mask Presence

(A) Red Fortune - Endurance
(33) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%

Level 35: Tough

(A) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
(36) Aegis - Resistance
(36) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(36) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance
(37) Aegis - Endurance/Recharge

Level 38: Weave

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(39) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
(39) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
(39) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
(40) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
(40) Red Fortune - Defense

Level 41: Maneuvers

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(42) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
(42) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
(42) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
(43) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
(43) Red Fortune - Defense

Level 44: Assault

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(45) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 47: Electrifying Fences

(A) Empty

Level 49: Ball Lightning

(A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(50) Bombardment - Chance for Fire Damage
(50) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
(50) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)

Level 1: Brawl

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

(A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Empty

Level 1: Conditioning
Level 2: Rest

(A) Empty

Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift

(A) Run Speed IO

Level 2: Health

(A) Miracle - +Recovery
(11) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
(11) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance

Level 2: Hurdle

(A) Jumping IO

Level 2: Stamina

(A) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self
(3) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
(9) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(34) Synapse's Shock - EndMod

------------

------------ Edited September 29, 2020 by Hew

KaizenSoze · September 30, 2020

Good def and resists.

I would take Mind Link and Mask Presence as early as possible. Foresight and leadership can be take a bit later.

If you put the Celerity +Steath piece in sprint. Combined, with Mask Presence, you'll have enough stealth to stand next to most mobs.

I would swap the ATOs between Spin and Slash. You can lead with Spin from stealth and have a chance to fear multiple mobs.

From personal experience, I did not use smoke grenade enough to keep it in the end.

You have an extra slot. I would put in TT:Leadership, Gaussian chance for Build Up.

Start on your accolades ASAP to help with the end issue. Don't run all your toggles, until you're end stable. The assaults should be optional until then or you have team end buffing.

I have no idea if that heal proc in Stamina will proc enough to be worth it. It's an interesting idea!

tidge · September 30, 2020

I understand the concerns about Endurance, but you may not be getting as much Recovery as you might think from the slotting of Stamina:

Level 2: Stamina

(A) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self
(3) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
(9) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(34) Synapse's Shock - EndMod

If you want the %Heal in here (I don't think I use this on my low HP characters), I would only use two slots: once for the %+End, and a level 50+5 Endurance modification. Run Speed is one of those things that I can sometimes see the effect, but in gameplay it is less noticeable. I do see that you are chasing that bonus in multiple places, so YMMV. You can have multiple Sprints to choose from, if you want to slot things differently in each one.

If you have enough Global Recharge, and resistance to Slows: you can consider dropping some slots that are getting you smaller Global Recharge bonuses from sets (e.g. Red Fortune in Maneuvers) to move a precious slot elsewhere. There is a point of diminishing returns on Global Recharge.

tidge · October 1, 2020

I took a slightly deeper look at a few of the early choices, I didn't see a Gladiator's Armor +3% Def or an Unbreakable Guard +Max HP in the build, so I'm looking for a couple of slots for those.

Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(5) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
(5) Red Fortune - Endurance
(7) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
(7) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

I think TT:Maneuvers could be slotted slightly more efficiently. I personally don't think the tiny set bonus from 2x Red Fortune is worth chasing here. I don't take fighting pool on my widows, so I consider Tough to be overkill, YMMV. Keep in mind that you can boost (50+5) the PVP pieces. I think having a Shield Wall Defense and Defense/End boosted to 50+5, along with the Global +Resistance is providing more benefit (+2.25% Health) than the Red Fortune 2-piece resistances. Plus they exemplar down to level 7! This would get you one extra slot to play with.

Level 10: Indomitable Will

(A) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
(43) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance

Here is where I usually 2-slot the 2 Resistance pieces I mentioned.

Another place you can pick up a slot IMO is

Level 44: Assault

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(45) Endurance Reduction IO

You may not notice much difference running with a single 50+5 Endurance Reduction.

You may want to consider moving one of those slots into Ball Lightning to get the +Max Endurance bonus from Annihilation. In the long run, having a larger Max End will be more beneficial than the little extra endurance discount on a level 44 toggle power.

Gulbasaur · October 1, 2020

As always, @tidge gives insightful advice.

Personally, I think widows can safely drop the Fighting pool. Defence isn't a problem and damage resistance isn't as much of a problem as it looks like as widows have sliding resists that don't show up correctly in the build designer. I'd sooner put the slots in smoke grenade for some whole-team mitigation.

Hew · October 1, 2020

The extra slot currently in the build gets inserted when I respec at 50 (respecs let you shove slots wherever, and are not tied to leveling organization). @tidge I like this. I thought the +3% def proc wouldn't really serve, but in lower level play I can see it be of use.

Going to try and incorporate these findings. Thanks guys!

tidge · October 1, 2020

Let us know what (if any) changes you make, and how your build(s) play for you. I can only write for myself, but I often get 'stuck' in certain design theories so I like to see other player's approaches to builds and power choices. I try to not be too critical of folk's power choices because why should I "yuck in someone else's yum"? Often I learn something!

Having written that, I want to add my voice to @Gulbasaur with my own take on the Fighting pool for Widows: I see the Fighting pool as a bit of a build trap for ATs that can already slot both Defense and Resistance with Primary/Secondary power choices. I'm well aware of how Tankers and Brutes leverage Tough and Weave to achieve 'mathematical finality' on some of their stats, but doing so often consumes precious power (and slot!) picks. Don't forget that their are (Orange/Purple) Inspirations! I will write that I have some builds where I took the Fighting pool ONLY to get Tough to be able to slot Global IOs, with no intention of ever using the toggle, but the Widow set is not one of them. I can't speak for the utility of the attacks in the Fighting pool, but I am aware that some players will use them on certain AT builds.

Hew · October 1, 2020

Hmm, interesting point. Weave however gives me 8.71% def across the board, and tough (resist aside) 4.5ish% aoe. I will look into dropping slots from tough. I am curious what I could do with the extra 4 slots...

Gulbasaur · October 1, 2020

55 minutes ago, Hew said:

I thought the +3% def proc wouldn't really serve

To be honest, I think all the survival IOs are worth slotting.

Steadfast Protection (cheap) and Gladiator's Armour (expensive) Damage Resistance Slot +3% defence - 3% is excellent value for a single slot.
Unbreakable Guard Damage Resistance Slot +7.5% hit points
Reactive Defences Defence Slot +3-13% scaling damage resistance this gets higher as you lose hit points and synergises with widows' abilities well
Shield Wall Defence Slot 5% damage resistance very good value for a single slot
Preventative Medicine Healing Slot Chance for Absorb shield the chance increases as you lose hit points - again, has good synergy for widows' scaling resists and I basically use it as a warning system to when I start having to pay attention to my health
Panacea Healing Slot Chance for small (5%?) heal this also does the same for endurance and is worth taking for that reason alone

The psi-specific ones have much less value to widows who tend to have a lot of psi resistance.

2 minutes ago, Hew said:

8.71% def across the board,

How high are your positional defences? I only really think 30% is necessary for most gameplay unless you're specifically trying to solo +4x8 content all the time. Remember that teammates will often top you up and when you hit the incarnate levels you'll get about +50% from teammates half the time.

KaizenSoze · October 1, 2020

This is the beauty of Widows. So, flexible. Tidge and Gulbasaur have great advice.

I on the other hand like to have my Widows tanky. I even made a high def/resist tank version as an experiment.

So, I always take tough to get my s/l resists close to 50% and have buckets of def for soloing.

tidge · October 1, 2020

I just wanted to add a comment in the category of "things I really appreciate as a teammate, but...", springboarding from

39 minutes ago, Gulbasaur said:

To be honest, I think all the survival IOs are worth slotting.

Reactive Defences Defence Slot +3-13% scaling damage resistance this gets higher as you lose hit points and synergises with widows' abilities well

Preventative Medicine Healing Slot Chance for Absorb shield the chance increases as you lose hit points - again, has good synergy for widows' scaling resists and I basically use it as a warning system to when I start having to pay attention to my health

Every once in a while, my Fortunata will frustrate a teammate with healing powers. With Scaling Damage Resistances, a chance for an Absorb barrier, my Fortunata likes to 'live life on the edge' to the point where I will see the healer make extra efforts to drop what they are doing and chase after me to keep me alive. This is appreciated and it is being a good teammate!

However... my teammate may not realize that my build also has a very high recharge Unrelenting (*1) or that I'm probably not even using Mind Link when I am away from other teammates. I love the attention, but I always feel bad when I pull a healer away from other teammates.

(*1) The Presence pool is a favorite of mine for my Fortunata. I know it isn't everyone's cuppa tea but another PBAoE control (Invoke Panic) is a wonderful addition to to the control set, and even without Hasten it is possible to get the recharge on Unrelenting fast enough to use it as an occasional 20% buff to damage without worrying about its healing/recovery properties. The ONLY things I don't like about the set is that the single-target Intimidate is of minimal use in the end-game (would be mitigated by a 'Contagious Fear' proc) and that Pacify doesn't work like Placate (for Widows). I should note that Intimidate's fear can be used to stack with other Fear effects, so it isn't completely useless, but the only real use I've ever had for Pacify has been to get a breather in EB/AV solo fights while leveling.

Gulbasaur · October 1, 2020

1 hour ago, tidge said:

The Presence pool is a favorite of mine for my Fortunata. I know it isn't everyone's cuppa tea but another PBAoE control (Invoke Panic) is a wonderful addition to to the control set, and even without Hasten it is possible to get the recharge on Unrelenting fast enough to use it as an occasional 20% buff to damage without worrying about its healing/recovery properties. The ONLY things I don't like about the set is that the single-target Intimidate is of minimal use in the end-game (would be mitigated by a 'Contagious Fear' proc) and that Pacify doesn't work like Placate (for Widows). I should note that Intimidate's fear can be used to stack with other Fear effects, so it isn't completely useless, but the only real use I've ever had for Pacify has been to get a breather in EB/AV solo fights while leveling.

The Presence pool is something I keep looking at and like in theory but find hard to make space for in practice. I think I do with the ATO fear proc what you do with Invoke Panic. In fact, I like Leadership and Presence as pools generally - the two leadership long cooldown powers are good value and the upper tier Presence powers are pretty great. I sort of wish we had a "blank slate" AT for power pool gameplay but it's hard to pull off without very purposefully gimping yourself.

I know what you mean with the rest of it - In task forces and stuff, I have had to point out that I'm either fine or dead and I'll tell you if I'm dead.

Hew · October 1, 2020

Ok, so, suddenly I am interested in presence pool....

Bill Z Bubba · October 1, 2020

2 hours ago, Hew said:

Ok, so, suddenly I am interested in presence pool....

I'm currently rocking the presence pool on a dm/bio scrapper. Invoke Panic gives a surprising amount of damage mitigation.

tidge · October 2, 2020

6 hours ago, Hew said:

Ok, so, suddenly I am interested in presence pool....

Like I wrote, I am a big fan of this pool for certain builds. Depending on your feelings about Provoke, the set has either 2 or 3 great powers. I particularly like it for high-recharge, defense-based melee characters.

Doctor Fortune	Soulwright	Mother Blight	Brightwarden	Storm Lantern	King Solar	Corona Borealis
Blood Fortunado	Dark/Dark Corruptor	Rad/Rad Brute	Gravity/Time Controller	Storm/Water Defender	Peacebringer	Dark/Dark Tanker

The Good Missions Guide: A Heroic Levelling Journey through Story Arcs Blueside Guide	Easy IO Cheat Sheet
The Mean Missions Guide: A Villainous Levelling Journey through Story Arcs Redside Guide	Fortunatas are the Bestunatas

Doctor Fortune	Soulwright	Mother Blight	Brightwarden	Storm Lantern	King Solar	Corona Borealis
Blood Fortunado	Dark/Dark Corruptor	Rad/Rad Brute	Gravity/Time Controller	Storm/Water Defender	Peacebringer	Dark/Dark Tanker

The Good Missions Guide: A Heroic Levelling Journey through Story Arcs Blueside Guide	Easy IO Cheat Sheet
The Mean Missions Guide: A Villainous Levelling Journey through Story Arcs Redside Guide	Fortunatas are the Bestunatas

Doctor Fortune	Soulwright	Mother Blight	Brightwarden	Storm Lantern	King Solar	Corona Borealis
Blood Fortunado	Dark/Dark Corruptor	Rad/Rad Brute	Gravity/Time Controller	Storm/Water Defender	Peacebringer	Dark/Dark Tanker

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