Help with Fire/Will design

[Harleigh]

Good day all.  I have a character concept based on a well known magical character from a series (author is Jim Butcher). I have just been playing away getting whichever power I wanted at the time, but now that he needs to be respec'd I am hoping for some direction on powers and slotting.  I have exclusively played scrappers and masterminds until now, so I feel I am out of my depth.  The only absolutes are that he needs to have the magical power pool and the ice pool when that opens up.  

 

Fire Blasting powers make sense, fireball is 6 slotted as is the high end blast,  but optimizing the rest is tricky.

 

The willpower defence is also tricky.  Which powers should be 6 slotted and which ones skipped?

 

Thank you in advance 

 

[oldskool]

Fire Blast isn't too complicated.  May seem like it at first, but it really isn't.  The following powers are all candidates for skippage: Fire Blast (T2), Fire Breath, and Rain of Fire.  

 

Generally, Wizards in Chicago do not use their hands or mouths as flame throwers.  It is their hands that tend to get in the way of flamethrowers and give them throbbing scars to remember their stupidity.  Calling down rains of fire also isn't really in the schtick either.  So conceptually passing on those powers works.  Big fuego Fireballs is what it is all about.  

Fire Blast, the power, isn't really a good power when you get into the nuts and bolts of it.  However, it may be useful to you to help bridge a gap in your attack use.  You want to be constantly hammering the forces of darkness with your best attacks while questioning your own moral character.  Fire Blast isn't really one of those best power picks, but it can help if you're not building up high levels of recharge.  Maybe your in house air spirit didn't want to craft you a potion of haste today.  I hear certain air spirits get uppity. 

 

For Willpower you don't really need to 6 slot anything.  High Pain Tolerance is the only one that really benefits from 6 slots in the most generic of ideas.  This is because you can enhance both the hit points and resistance of the power.  Maximizing those features would take 3 SO or common IO quality sockets each.  Depending on your choice in sets you could mix and match too.  There are a lot of varieties that can make the power effective.  

The other powers like Mind Over Body and the like can be functional at 3 to 4 slots regardless of your enhancement choices.  You could opt to fully slot a set into any of those powers, but the point is you don't have to.  If slots look tight, then consider reducing the slots in Willpower first.  Prioritize attacks.  Big fuego makes wizards happy.  You can skip Resurgence and possibly Strength of Will.  I personally like SoW.  I personally tend to think people don't see the value in it for the endurance steroid it can be and focus way too much on the resistance effect of Smashing/Lethal.  You see, as a Tanker, my Willpower Tanker doesn't *need* the extra S/L resistance.  I'm *well* aware of this.  However, that power does push my other resistances which has value to me.  Even with a ton of endurance procs and two passive end powers the Super Strength side of that character *still* drains end fast AF.  This is because that Tanker can chain cast Knockblow, Foot Stomp, and Cross Punch.  Yes, I have that much recharge as well as Force Feedbacks.  Fire Blast when using Fireball rotationally can be consuming as much as 4 to 5 endurance per second.  So unless you plan to shoehorn your Destiny pick into Ageless, SoW can have a purpose.  This can let you consider either Rebirth or Barrier as alternatives which are considerably strong steroids for Willpower.  

 

Word of warning: Willpower cannot max out defenses on Sentinels.  Especially not if your unwilling to stack the crap out of additional +defense sources like Maneuvers, Weave, Hover, Combat Jumping.  Willpower on Sentinels is hurt by the lopsided nature of the IO system.  What I mean here is that Willpower is really strong on melee because melee IO sets disproportionally support a range of +defense set bonuses.  Sentinels just don't have access to this unless you have the influence to tap multiple versions of the Winter Set category.  Slotting in that manner can, potentially, hurt your damage output.  Those sets are highly focused on defense and not so much on things like recharge.  

Without knowing just how many powers out of the Sorcery pool are desired or how many of the Ice Mastery powers are desired I really can't help much more than that.  This is *your* character.  Not mine.  As long as you understand that Willpower is going to have some fragility to it when making a concept build you'll be OK.  Rune of Protection in Sorcery isn't a bad choice here.  

Another thing to think about is that if you plan to mix things up by calling on the mantle of a certain seasonal effect you may be in melee a good bit.  The Melee Genome series of Hybrid Incarnates might be appealing to you.  Assault Genome is just the standard damage one, but Melee is a decent defense one.  

As you can see, coming up with a build in a vacuum has a crapload of considerations to it.  I even go into some Incarnate choices because Willpower will always have holes.  At least until we get more sets that have defense traits that aren't just +range/energy/negative.  Incarnates are good at plugging some of those holes.  

 

*edit: ... If you're used to playing Scrappers, then Sentinels actually have far more in common with that AT than it seems.  It is generally a mistake to view Sentinels as anything close to comparable with Blasters, Corruptors, or Defenders.  Unfortunately, Sentinels don't quite do the damage of Scrappers nor do they have their wide diversity in set choices.  Still, the two ATs have a lot of conceptually similar traits going for them.  Lean more on that and the Sentinel won't seem so intimidating to build.  

Edited November 24, 2020 by oldskool

[Meknomancer]

Having no idea which powers you want from which pools i just threw in stuff. I have water/wp its quite fun, but i don't consider it a high damage dealer and i don't think this will be either:

 

 

  

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

FIRE WP ICE: Level 50 Magic Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Flares                SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb:50(A), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(5), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(7), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg:50(9), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg:50(9)
Level 1:    High Pain Tolerance        Prv-Heal:50(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(11), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(11), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(13)
Level 2:    Fire Ball            SprOppStr-Rchg/+Opportunity:50(A), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(15), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31), SprOppStr-Dmg/Rchg:50(31), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg:50(34)
Level 4:    Mind Over Body            Ags-ResDam:50(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx:50(5), Ags-ResDam/Rchg:50(37), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 6:    Blaze                SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(40), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(40), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(43), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc:50(43)
Level 8:    Aim                GssSynFr--Build%:50(A)
Level 10:    Fast Healing            Prv-Heal:50(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 12:    Indomitable Will        LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(46), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(48), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48)
Level 14:    Hover                LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), Rct-ResDam%:50(15), Ksm-ToHit+:30(37)
Level 16:    Up to the Challenge        NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), NmnCnv-Heal:50(17), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg:50(25), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg:50(27), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx:50(27)
Level 18:    Blazing Blast            Apc-Dam%:50(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(19), Apc-Acc/Rchg:50(19), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(21), Apc-Dmg:50(23), OvrFrc-Dam/KB:50(25)
Level 20:    Quick Recovery            PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(21)
Level 22:    Mystic Flight            BlsoftheZ-Travel:50(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx:50(23)
Level 24:    Spirit Ward            Prv-Absorb%:50(A)
Level 26:    Rune of Protection        Ags-Psi/Status:50(A), Ags-ResDam/Rchg:50(50), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg:50(50)
Level 28:    Heightened Senses        LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), ShlWal-Def:50(29), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(29), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31)
Level 30:    Kick                Empty(A)
Level 32:    Inferno                SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc:50(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(34)
Level 35:    Tough                Ags-ResDam:50(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx:50(36), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), Ags-ResDam/Rchg:50(36)
Level 38:    Weave                LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), ShlWal-Def:50(39), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(39), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39)
Level 41:    Frostbite            Bmbdmt-+FireDmg:50(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End:50(42), Bmbdmt-Dam:50(42), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech:50(42), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech:50(43)
Level 44:    Block of Ice            SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc:50(A), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg:50(45), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End:50(45), SprEnt-End/Rchg:50(45), SprEnt-Acc/Hold:50(46)
Level 47:    Hasten                RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(48)
Level 49:    Strength of Will        GldArm-3defTpProc:50(A)
Level 1:    Brawl                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Opportunity    
Level 1:    Prestige Power Dash        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Slide        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Quick        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Rush        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Surge        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Sprint                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Rest                Empty(A)
Level 4:    Ninja Run    
Level 2:    Swift                Flight-I:50(A)
Level 2:    Health                Mrc-Rcvry+:40(A), Pnc-Heal/+End:50(3)
Level 2:    Hurdle                Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2:    Stamina                PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(3)
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1469;691;1382;HEX;|
|78DA6594494C53511486EF6B5FC5D23289C83C164ACBF06801D7260235554910549|
|60D2997F2B0B658705ABA74A9261AE3BC13A79D7BE3B073DC29E8C29DC6A026AE49|
|3D7DFFCF90F4A5CDF77AE673EEB91DBF30EA7F76E8D20165948FA467969612533AB|
|36C6774DA333E93B2934A1E5F2C3E39D6363DD1161F192B91DF0D9B2689C9994C4A|
|CF5A313BA71307C57B795B35AAE77466495BD3763ABD983DAF7355F1CCBCCE89DAD|
|A7CF14D64B3692B96B653F3CB7EE77D2A9B4BEADCC532280A723B932A856A51EBD9|
|FAB1453B696DE5882775625CB28A4B9DD4D525DF6C50F1C97BD42753A9A8A9CC8FE|
|0AE0FE47B70F73BF22DA843E26638BE6EF5C3EDC84A7F92BF407FAD18349BEA4C90|
|A692C7F8067FFF57B07C0D6C5925BF80ED9FC139C9E3661EF7B0811A236067941C0|
|27392C7C33C9E87F0EF5E211F918FC19E27E453F0ACF896C05795ACB81C594A727B|
|91DBF0B2C77EF6382F3A1FEBF2D5207FFF11E80662641CF44AE032D8BACA685BFE0|
|FBACE0DE5CCE87958A90AD8782A4EC2A6F204791CAC9B021B26C963E039A9BD8A7D|
|574551FB9E083900EEB5C07D7D60DD77E45F903EAAD963F50DDA5E05AFC992D420A|
|E51B34AFF35F08AE86A39AFDA75C4BA2EB27AC8DCF5FB515B946714E5194507C153|
|92B791F36BE44C9A0E234E13E7D7C2F9B9647ECDCCD59C97475D968E5BD971EB039|
|C60DB7DF21E79979B7487BC0DBA255A07337770A302DCA800AB0CB06A536CBB68DB|
|C52A83AC32C82A83ACF2A67414424D66C8E571646183DC40EE709E5BA720BF250EB|
|D886FF6BE81AEEF35F98A7C09F6BF003BA4268B2766F52A6C1A795AE24538A9C820|
|A7696EDD72F914A6B7102EDCDDC24DC9E77B8AB4912249B448325424192E921C2D9|
|24C985BFF03CA7024DE4AB9DD90E4D74B456B501B403F7FB6658671585EBA651BDA|
|D1D7EF9DF621D8FFDD69CF6D76719BFF03221AF0CA|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

[oldskool]

32 minutes ago, Meknomancer said:

i don't consider it a high damage dealer and i don't think this will be either:

 

The damage on paper is better than you may give it credit.  This gets even better when using Musculature Core Alpha, the Assault series, and a high damage Interface like Reactive or Degenerative.  

The build can run Blazing Blast -> Blaze -> Fire Ball -> Flares -> 0.5 second pause -> repeat.  That's pretty solid all ranged damage potential during Hasten.  During the downtime window of Hasten more Flares will be used to fill in gaps.  Using Frostbite or Block of Ice are just utility choices at the expense of damage uptime.  

Still, the above is better than what Water Blast is capable of on single targets due to the nature of how Water Blast works.  Water Blast, should be a bit ahead on AoE due to the options that exist in that set and the strength of powers like Steam Spray and Whirlpool.  

Also, the build you shared illustrates my previous point on just how expensive it can get to try to raise defense.  The build soft-caps elemental defenses, but still has 22% smashing/lethal which is quite common.  Also, without any defense debuff resistance that 22% gets shredded by any enemies with a automatic weapon.  The near cap resistances to S/L, even outside of SoW/Rune are absolutely helpful though.  

 

18 individual Winter Set IOs.  Each ranging between 18 to 20+ million per slot.  The OP is looking at around half a billion influence just to slot 4 powers using buy-it-now pricing.  It is something to be mindful of.  

 

Again, it is a good build but it has a lot of considerations to it that need to taken into account.  Unknown budget, power preference, and all of that you mentioned (This is more for the OP than anything).
 

Edited November 24, 2020 by oldskool

[Meknomancer]

Agreed i dislike having to slot winter sets just to get defence numbers i still think recharge is king in this game and i really hate not taking leadership on toons, anything i run without tactics and a kismet+acc seems to miss so many attacks i'd rather drop the epic/patron powers. But i totally understand the themed toons that wanna run specific pools they are a lot more fun to play and it is still a team game despite it becoming more solo friendly. 

[Underfyre]

I made one too out of morbid curiosity. Usually I start builds by dumping 6 slots in every attack and figuring out what goes where. This one I started with focusing on S/L defense and where I could eek some out. I got it up to 43% for S/L/F/C. I haven't dumped the numbers in the spreadsheet, but I'm sure they're abysmal with the poor choice of epic powers and focus on defense.

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1446;686;1372;HEX;|
|78DA65944B6F12511886CF5C6885424BEFA52D5090D2422932EA428DA689D636604|
|9B02C5C12DA9ED2A90410F0B674E9CE6B4CAC3FC07ADBF92FBC2DD5EA4F509B98B8|
|C58FF95E2809939067E63BE77DCF3BDF9943FACEB2F3DDEABD25A1F45F2AE66BB55|
|C5696EA6649166DE97CC1DC14CDAB977E93AD7A6E3D5F2AC8ADF88A5995B98B24A9|
|1F0D2DCB6D59AAC9F835B358AC946FCBAA7065CAE522CD2DECD08C82D37A5A93F90|
|A3D8CB41EB664B5B66356721BB29E7758C56C45CA2DCFE58AB9196F7B2737652E4D|
|ABC9EADD09CA334BBF7258E06AD8C44B5D08431723FBE02BE6C46B66E00DF89629E|
|749A6585A4DF8E866CE2E8EF9C100D31164DE0863AA68E8CA07D6473F829FC0CFCC|
|D817E636F96BF0D7E0AFC3BF07FE3DF0AF92BF0DEF618BA9A4B78BC022331467861|
|3CC3943B5FCE7629AC59B61DE1FD2AABD7B34364CB95F3087F6796E81B2D8398B6E|
|9F665DCC0BFA988B7E7086B9439A3E68FA4615ABE65CD1AC0CCE55A63BC51C4A321|
|50AE2E22C9A2B4308EAA2FF2AB8CE746799EF23420CB0BF180809CBFF16BDCB20FA|
|30F895FBB8F88D79E23B7800FE601A3F99BB947798FD94E143DDCA63FCE33195728|
|D22D728D61F43BE31E49B443E8DE68EC367BC79E3A56FE824F744A7310F7AE2414F|
|2657786C7A154C326752CCEB946B0A9A29687C18F341EB6B69AE30C7681D2F7AE38|
|5E63EF5C68FDEF8CFF0BECE9CC5B7708E19390F5E0097D8EF396508421B7CC03D39|
|FE107C043E66869E824F98F9289D35CEA2CE224BD80DFE65FF3DF29F677F31DFA04|
|B6C906A016FB01010D66E8CD35BC5312B6ECD0A5225815E2716F81B30C069BD7DB6|
|3581BD51B1672AF64CC75EEE469A67B979821A8DE891AEF948AB24BA2A4657E5545|
|7E5745765ADAB92D1DBFF0B42B12A76379D7AAE347E396854E91CFDD3594935CFBE|
|2E7E77CD3AECAC3CE39DFC0F74C2E4C1|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

[oldskool]

Just for future readers; Sentinel Willpower really doesn't require soft-cap defenses in order for it to function.  The higher the defense stacking gets the less reliant on purple inspirations you will be.  However, you're still going to want those purple skittles on hand facing some enemies.  With this in mind players can decide if the return on investment in to defense is worth the opportunity cost in potential damage slotting.  In this case, Fire Blast is such a strong performer that it isn't hurt too much.  Then again, "too much" is a beauty is in the eye of the beholder statement.  Stacking defense on Willpower will never keep pace with the damage meta, period.  Then again, Sentinels have a huge problem with this as so much damage is consolidated into two specific powers in a specific epic pool.  

TL;DR: Soft-cap defense is overrated when it comes at a compromise to the goals of your character.  There is a concept of building for "just enough" where you can strike a balance.  This makes the character more flexible though a bit reliant on other sources (i.e., Incarnates, Inspiration, Teammates).  

[Harleigh]

These responses are exactly the sort of advice I was hoping for.  Oldskool, your first response was amazing  🙂

 

I do see a lot of you suggesting Flares over Fireblast though and I am curious as to why?

[Meknomancer]

Offensive opportunity vs Defensive opportunity. Most prefer damage.

[Meknomancer]

And dps cast time/animation/faster recharging attack.

[pblue]

On 11/24/2020 at 5:07 AM, Harleigh said:

Good day all.  I have a character concept based on a well known magical character from a series (author is Jim Butcher).

 

 

 

Not that it's relevant, but Jim Butcher was and still a City of Heroes player.  Apparently, back in the day he had to struggle with NCSoft to be allowed to use the names of his fictional characters in game (as he is the copyright owner of those characters).