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Sentinel DPS sheet


Underfyre
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Welcome to the Sentinel DPS Spreadsheet v2.4, Page 5. Page 5 data is added to the sheet now. Page 5 overhauled the Opportunity mechanic and increased the damage a Sentinel can pump out. We lost the proc from Offensive Opportunity, but that damage was essentially "rolled into" our basic damage. That makes the damage enhance-able, which is a good thing. It also now applies to aoe abilities, which the proc did not. This is also good. We are also no longer forced to try to time activating Opportunity on a "good target," lest it be wasted on a minion or something. Also a good thing. We lost Defensive Opportunity. For some this was apparently a big deal. I'm disinclined to agree, but it didn't affect this sheet much either way. In place of the Opportunity mechanic we now have Vulnerability, a single target debuff. Largely a side-grade from what we had, but also grants us more control of when and where we use it. So a minor upgrade. For the purposes of this sheet, I've assumed Vulnerability to be up half the time, versus having that additional 15 second burst from full Opportunity. The Opportunity Strikes proc is factored in and will show the affects of the proc when the ability it is in is used. To maximize accuracy, I would repeat a rotation until it runs longer than 30 seconds. Or at least until 50 Opportunity is built. Doing that isn't wholly necessary, but it will slightly inflate the value of Vulnerability if you don't. I'd definitely put the rotation in at least twice anyway, just to see if there are any gaps. It might not be as seamless a rotation as you think.

 

With regards to the value of the new debuff, you would have averaged roughly a 15% debuff against a hard target with the old version, where now you will see a 7.5-8.5% (with the ATO) debuff. The difference being that one is affected by the Purple Patch and one is not. After the Purple Patch, and assuming +3 mobs, you would likely have seen a roughly 9.75% debuff. It's a minor loss, but also a minor upgrade with it's usability. Against +4 mobs, it is a flat out upgrade, and obviously, a downgrade when dropping to even level mobs. I want to believe someone using this sheet is trying to max out damage against big game, amirite?

 

Anyway, have fun.

 

How to use this sheet: Make a copy on your Google Drive, drop in your own enhancement values and procs, twist all the knobs you want and see what yields an increase in damage Will this set work better with this power or that power? Find out. Is it worth it to make your enhancements +5? Find out.

 

Note: Don't bother trying to export it to Excel, Excel won't be able to handle much of anything correctly because of the types of formulas used and the use of checkboxes don't play well.

 

Version 2.4.3.1 up.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_2MAAOERAZfbjUIoYsCkSDorQPAcI8eBM1j9s1xjwP0/edit?usp=sharing

 

Patch Notes:

Spoiler

v2.4.3.1

- Changed Vulnerability calc to need 25 Opportunity instead of the full 50 for a "close enough" level of accuracy. Kind of a trade off for "perfect" accuracy over ease of use.

 

v2.4.3

- Changed healing abilities from Secondaries to just say "Healing" instead of "Damage/Healing".

     - Removed +%Damage incarnates from the enhancement totals if the ability is a heal.

- Added the same thing to abilities with "To Hit." You can now enhance your To Hit in Invulnerability > Invincible and Stone Armor > Terra Firma. Follows ED rules for To Hit correctly.

     - Added Incarnates with To Hit. Kinda dumb, but whatever. Completeness.

 

v2.4.2

- Implemented Seismic Shockwaves affect to Seismic Blast abilities Rock Shards and Stalagmite. Bonus is affected by your percent chance to have Shockwaves active.

     - Adding functionality for Seismic Force cooldown reduction is largely pointless except for Meteor. Not something I wish to pursue at this time.

 

v2.4.1

- Removed Disintegrate damage from Multi-Target.

- Fixed Damage cells breaking for Multi-Target when ability 3 was used.

- Added Galaxy Brain's adjusted resistance data for level 40+ mobs. Will be my new default.

- Fixed Lightning Field damage calc.

- Updated damage on rain spells.

- Updated damage on Secondary abilities that have a damage component.

 

v2.4

- Added Page 5 data.

     - Removed Opportunity cell from ability chunks.

     - Removed Defensive Opportunity information from ability chunks.

     - Removed Offensive Opportunity proc from ability chunks.

     - Removed second proc chance from Fiery Aura > Burn. It was fun while it lasted. F.

     - Added Vulnerability, added a toggle for it as well.

          - Opportunity builds at 1.25 per 0.75 seconds. I'm just using 1.67 per second. Same difference.

          - Opportunity Strikes proc will add the averaged amount to the Activation_Time * 1.67 when the ability is used.

     - Updated damage values to 1.1 multiplier numbers.

     - Added Stone Armor.

          - Geothermal Power (increases Brimstone proc damage) from having Geode is not tracked. Nobody is going to use that to increase their              damage. It would be a damage drop to use it mid-combat.

          - This set is currently the only set that Voltaic Sentinel doesn't gain the proc damage. I don't know if this will change for the other two,                  but it was intentional for Stone Armor.

- Fixed Voltaic Sentinel using wrong Recharge numbers for Assault Radial, Bio Proc and Molten Embrace Proc.

- Fixed mob regen calculation. This exclusively affected Beam Rifle. Factors in new -Regen resist from Vulnerability.

- My initial numbers for Seismic Blast were spot on when accounting for the 0.95 multiplier, so if you had anything built for that, you're still good.

- I still haven't worked out how Seismic Shockwaves goes off, it's somewhat random and I haven't thought of how to make that work right.

- Added an Area Factor cell to each ability chunk. Feels like doing that calculation once per chunk is better/faster than doing it 9 times per chunk.

 

v2.3

- Added Page 4 data.

 

v2.2

- Did a lot of cleanup on formulas and math.     

     - Removed division from the sheet in the hopes that multiplication will speed things up when there are multiple instances of the Rotation              Sheet.

          - For the curious, the inverse of 1/x is x^-1. I'm not sure if exponents are faster than division, but we're going to find out.

     - Removed nested IF statements where IFS would have sufficed.

     - Added named ranges for frequently referenced data.

          - New named ranges will be created for each new copy of the Rotation Sheet. I don't know if this will slow things down or not. The new named ranges will be deleted if/when you delete the new sheet.

     - Removed VLOOKUPs in favor of INDEX>MATCH, in the hopes that they also may speed things up.

- Moved Shock damage numbers from data sheet to the Rotation Sheet. No idea why I thought I should do it the way I did the first time.

- Correctly added Opportunity proc damage to pet abilities.

- Added missed procs to Patron Pets. Way to trust Mid's. Anyway, update your Mid's to show Mace Mastery pet as taking slow procs.

- Added "Hybrid Boost Very Rare" to Hybrid selection so you can show the 10% damage boost, but not have the procs active. You know, for Pylon testing purposes.

- Added "Delta" for procs to compare damage increase versus base damage. - Accuracy was pointed towards Damage enhancements instead of Accuracy enhancements in some places. Fixed.

- Added DPA to the ability list for quick comparison.

 

v2.1.3.1

- Added cap to -Regen debuffs in the unlikely event that regen values could be reduced to negative numbers. Doesn't technically pertain to Sentinels, as they have no way to reduce regen below the required 331% to delve into negative regen territory. Math was carried over from the Corruptor sheet that I'm pretty sure I've never released due to lack of interest.

- Corrected "Activation Period" of Whirlpool in it's Assault Radial proc.

 

v2.1.3

- Added Shock damage to Electrical Blast. Based off of an average of fixed endurance points, which are then affected by mob resistance to Endurance drain and Purple Patch.

- Beam Rifle was double dipping on Disintegrate damage. Removed the doubled references.

- Added Opportunity gains to secondary attacks.

 

v2.1.2

- Added Health/regen/resist pools for some GMs and a few AVs. Health pools for Kronos Titan, and villain GMs are placeholders until I can zap them with a Power Analyzer.

- Corrected damage for AR > Full Auto.

 

v2.1.1

- Added Ice Mistral proc.

 

v2.1

- Updated changes made in Issue 27, page 3.

     - Added Seismic Blast. Numbers are guesstimations based off other set numbers, design formulas using the 95% AT modifier and intuition from two years of working on a Sentinel Spreadsheet.

     - When the set is actually added to Sentinels I'll fix the numbers if needs be.

     - Recharge reductions from "grounded" casts are tracked. Took a while to get this formula to work correctly. Just know that it was hard to do.

- Updated numbers for Electrical Blast > Voltaic Sentinel.

- Added a Latency option drop down versus using pure Arcanatime. 0.282s is the averaged default I've observed, but I've included all of the variances I've seen. Arcanatime is no more.

- Added Pylon DPS.

     - Additional buff/debuff ability activations are not tracked as it creates a ridiculous amount of circular references. Predicted DPS will be higher than observed.

     - DPS from rotation is pushed through an inverse pylon formula to find kill time. Kill time is then pushed through standard Pylon DPS formula to find "new" DPS. Highlighting the problem with predicting DPS from a Pylon.

     - Inverse Time formula allows for Interface procs that reduce HP/Regen, so at least there's a positive to it.

     - Hybrid Assault now functions off of Pylon time.

- Added Diamagnetic Interface proc. Capped at 4 stacks (40%). It wasn't worth the trouble.

- Added Regen debuff values to Beam Rifle and Degenerative Interface. It was worth the trouble.

- Added "second" proc chance for Fiery Aura > Burn. Turns out the initial attack has a chance to proc, and then the pseudo-pet also has a chance to proc.

- Added melee procs to their damage type categories where I missed them.

- Single Target damage for attack 15 was referencing the wrong cell and breaking the sheet.

 

 

v2.0

- Minor fix to PPM calculations

- Added Reactive Radial/Core -Res debuff to Electrical Blast > Voltaic Sentinel.

- Extended rotation bar to increase accuracy of the calculations. The longer your rotation accounts for, the more accurate your results will be.

- Added a checkbox for Aim since apparently some mad men don't take it.

- Also added a check box for which mode you're under in Adaptation, and a check box for Molten Embrace since people want to be silly.

- Added pet calcs to Molten Embrace/Offensive Adaptation damage for Fiery Aura > Burn.

- Added pet damage cap to Fiery Aura > Burn.

- Re-tooled how Reactive Interface is calculated. Both Core and Radial are capped at 10%.

- Re-tooled how Hybrid Assault Core is calculated.

- Electrical Blast > Voltaic Sentinel and Patron Pets also apply the -5% Resist debuff for Opportunity, and you can have each apply it.

 

v1.6.2

- Updated changes made in Issue 27, page 2.

     - AR, Dual Pistols, Electric Blast T9 cast times.

     - AR > Full Auto damage updated

     - Mace Mastery > Focused Accuracy is now Coordinated Targeting. Gives 5% To Hit and 20% Accuracy.

- Fixed rain/pseudopet calcs for Assault Radial/Molten Embrace/Bio Armor.

- Changed how Interface procs work with "rain" spells. If their duration exceeded the internal cooldown of 10 seconds, it was changed to Duration/10.

- Forgot to cap pseudopets at 400% damage. Fixed.

- Toggling on Tactics/Assault will show their endurance use now. Both assume a single 53% IO and whatever other global endurance/Incarnate reductions you may have.

- Apparently Kezeal's more recent dps sheet had one more gift to give, so I've lifted how cooldowns are calced on the rotation sheet. It's now 1000% easier for me to expand how many abilities are available.

 

v1.6.1

- Almost every block in the "other procs" section was pointed towards ability 1. Fixed.

 

v1.6

- Condensed everything to a single sheet with drop downs for Primaries and Secondaries like I did with my sheets for other ATs. It's much easier to duplicate the sheet and put your own build together now.

- Took a page out of Bopper's book and color coded in an attempt to make the sheet more user friendly.

     - As long as it's blue or green it's intended/fine to edit the block. I wouldn't touch anything else tho or you risk breaking large chunks of the sheet.

- Added in endurance costs. Too many times I've made a character with some hefty endurance issues. End/s now calced off of your rotation. Added in Alphas that affect endurance as well.

- Multi-Target option re-instated. But it's one or the other.

- After doing Dark Astoria arcs I noticed I seem to have a permanent 9% damage buff, so I added that to the Buffs section.

- Changed how Decimation and the -Res debuff procs are calced over time. Unfortunately you won't see how much is applied until the ability is actually in your rotation.

- Applied defense debuff mod values from Alpha Incarnates just because.

- Found the problem with the post ED calcs between 70-100% and fixed that. Values over 100% were calced correctly.

- Changed 3 Tidal Power activation of Water Jet to also have a 1 second activation time, per game files.

- Reworked Reactive Core/Radial to apply 2.5% for 8.3s (numbers from game files) per ability with a 75%/25% chance, divided by total rotation time. More accurate than before, still doesn't make Core better than Radial.

- Applied same treatment to Hybrid Assault Core. Apparently ballparking 30% was pretty close.

 

v1.5

- Added in "pause" functionality to the rotation bar. Kind of a big deal. Maybe. We'll see.

- Fixed damage calc for Lightning Field.

 

1.4.2

- Applied purple patch to Opportunity Strikes proc. Doesn't appear to apply to pseudo-pets, but most of them have horrendous activation chances anyway.

 

1.4.1

- Somehow I neglected to attach the Offensive Opportunity damage to the check mark I made for it in all the sheets. Fixed that.

- Properly applied Purple Patch to Resistance and Defense Debuffs.

- Hamidon and Rikti Pylon have their Defense Debuff resistance values factored in.

- Corrected cooldown on Dual Pistols > Pistols and Radiation Blast > Proton Stream.

- Changed Decimation proc percent to factor how many times the ability is cast versus rotation time.

 

1.4

- Removed AOE calcs. "There's no such thing as an AOE rotation."

- Added in mob resists. There are Averaged resists for major villain groups, general resists across the game, 0 Resists, Rikti Pylon and Hamidon.

- Added in T4 Incarnate Interface procs (Reactive Radial wins).

- Added in the majority of T4 Alpha abilities that added +Accuracy, + Recharge and +Damage.

- Added in Opportunity gained per ability, and Opportunity Strikes proc average to factor in Opportunity up-time.

- Added in Offensive Opportunity damage proc.

- Added a toggle for whether Offensive Opportunity damage is applied. The T1 ability in some sets is so bad (Psychic) that it's not worth taking and may not be an option.

- Added in Defensive Opportunity heal/end for reference purposes.

- Pulled correct Bio Armor/Molten Armor proc calcs from game files.

- Moved all personal buffs to individual set pages.

- Added Defender level damage/recharge buffs/-res debuffs to the Buffs page instead. Max yourself out at +400% damage and +400% recharge. It could happen.

- Added Patron Summons and a breakdown of their DPS output. Confirmed which of their abilities will trigger the damage procs from game files.

- Added "Purple Patch" damage reductions and accuracy, worked accuracy into calcs. You can now see your accuracy from +0 to +4.

- Added Tidal Power to Water Blast to track which damage boost is active for Water Burst and Geyser. Numbers are from game files.

- Most every Fire damage over time as an "additional effect" has a cancel on miss flag, so that is now added to them instead of a flat "80% chance for X ticks of X damage."

- Added a column to show the percent damage increase from procs against an abilities base damage.

 

1.3.5

- Averaged Assault Radial and Assault Core. Assault Radial is right, Assault Core is sketchy at best. If someone can think of a better way to average it, I'll change it.

- From ability 12 down Bio Toxin, Molten Embrace and Assault Radial were pointing to the wrong cells for some reason. Corrected them.

 

1.3.4

- Removed Ninjitsu from the secondary drop down because its damage bonus only applies to your first attack from stealth.

- Added an "All Others" option for secondaries that don't add to damage potential. (To Hit, Damage or Recharge)

- The toggle next to the Opportunity buff can now be used to remove the procs average up time or not, leaving the base 5% debuff. Testing on my Fire sent had a 20 second average time to bring up Opportunity, changed its average up time from "20% * 2/3" to "20% * 15 / (15 + 20)" since it also didn't seem possible to build Opportunity when the debuff was active.

- Added Ageless Core average recharge buff.

 

1.3.3

- Added Bombardment IO Proc to sets that accept it.

- Fixed Hybrid Assault Radial proc not pointing to 6PPM.

- Fixed Javelin Volley saying Toxic on some pages, they should all say Lethal now. Not that it mattered a ton, but it's fixed anyway.

- Re-ordered proc damage in S/L/F/C/E/N/P/T order for no particular reason.

- Arbitrarily pointed Molten Embrace damage to 3.5PPM on all sheets.

 

1.3

- Added Molten Embrace bonus fire damage to all sets. It seems to use the same calcs as the Hybrid Radial with a different damage value. There are obviously outliers that don't follow the formula.

- Bio Armor also follows the Hybrid Radial formula with outliers.

- Removed all Opportunity debuff damage out of AOE calcs. AOE spells only apply the debuff to the primary target, so factoring it in to every target with a potential target cap of 30 would inflate numbers.

- Reworked PPM chance to include AreaMod in all sheets.

- Added Epic/Patron pools. Select set by drop down and it will auto-populate. Patron summon dps not calced at this time.

- Added Secondaries w/ damaging abilities and buffs to sheets. Select set by drop down and it will auto-populate and apply buffs as necessary. Selecting a secondary with a Recharge or Damage boost will apply its boost to pertinent areas.

- Added a cell at the top to show which secondary/pool is active.

- Fixed Recharge values not including Spiritual Alpha.

 

1.2

- Added Hybrid Assault Radial procs based off of research by Hopeling.

- Also added Hybrid Assault Core, assuming 4 stacks.

 

1.1

- Added Bio Armor bonus toxic damage to all sets.

- Corrected some activation and recharge times.

 

1.0

 - Initial release.

 

Sheet Tutorial:

 

First things first, choose your sets. If you use Dual Pistols, the ammo type drop down will populate with the different ammo types.

Next, update your target. I usually use Global Average at +3 because of Incarnate level shift. Set it to +4 if you plan on exemping down.

Next, select your Incarnates and put in your set bonuses. You can get these out of Mids if you're familiar enough with your sets, or if you have the character built in game already, it's easier to get them from there.

 

You can also choose whether Opportunity is active, and whether it's Offense mode or not. You can also choose your latency, but 0.282s is my observed average.

 

image.thumb.png.a54554d354f91b2911265663904d2573.png

 

Next you're going to have to fill in the data chunks for your abilities. There's no particularly fast way to do this.

 

image.thumb.png.d3b4a0108469d0b1d9f87b139b7ba827.png

 

Finally you can start putting in your rotation. Because of how Opportunity is calced in the sheet, it's best if you fill in your full rotation at least twice, especially since this will reveal whether any pauses are needed. You can select whether you're doing Multi-Target or single Target from the drop down, and you can enable whether defense debuffs are active or not.

 

image.thumb.png.c74cc3e038f87c982e6e83b02126b0cd.png

Edited by Underfyre
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There probably isn't enough general interest in the Sentinel given all of the poo-pooing of the AT since its release.  There are several folks that have shelved their Sentinels and moved on to greener pastures out of disappointment.  

 

Might be better to just post it and let feedback come as it does.  I seriously doubt you'll find "experts" in their preferred sets unless all you really want is a deluge of people talking about Fire Blast. 😉 

 

Edit 1: FWIW to anyone else, I've read it and it has some good things that can be helpful for a lot of folks.  More eyes on it can help refine it.

 

Edit 2: Can you change "New" to "Need" in the title?

 

 

Edited by oldskool
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Added Hybrid Assault Radial and Core. Core assumes 4 stacks. I confirmed the numbers of Radial Assault on Dual Pistols. According to the thread, there are some abilities that don't fall exactly in line, so there's a chance that numbers may be wrong and will only be exposed through testing.

 

Based off of info from this post: 

 It's apparently a damage loss to take Core over Radial, assuming you're averaging 4 stacks.

Edited by underfyre
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  • 2 weeks later
1 hour ago, Jotun said:

So of i am reading this right electrical blast has the lowest dps of 580?

That's the AoE number from the Rack and Stack cell.
 

Something from the very first cell "Rack and Stack's current rankings should not be taken seriously by any means". 

 

Keep in mind, Thunderous Blast has a fairly long animation time (so does Full Auto).  Short Circuit also has a fairly long animation time and it is also PBAoE (which may or may not complicate things).  Ball Lightening is the fastest animating option in the set and its decent. 

This might inform someone that perhaps they may wish to consider taking an Epic/Patron AoE option like Psychic Shockwave (or whatever floats someone's boat) to pad out gaps.  This ignores Short Circuit's other functionality as well as its ability to accept 5 different procs if you wanted to add them. 

Edited by oldskool
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On the topic of Elec's ST DPS, I think it might actually be the top Sentinel primary for that purpose. Simply because a procced out /psi epic is such a cornerstone of Sentinel performance.

I've had promising results using an attack chain of Zapping Bolt -> Dominate -> Mind Probe -> Zapping Bolt -> Tesla Cage, with Voltaic Sentinel adding its own shots.

 

How promising? Well, at the same level of incarnates and against Rikti Pylons, my Elec/Inv is dealing roughly the same DPS as my Fire/Bio. That's invul "does-nothing-for-your-offense" versus bio "hey-let's-give-you-a-permanent-25%-damage-boost-and-then-let's-throw-more-toxic-damage-on-top".


Zapping Bolt is basically Blaze without the DoT, and Tesla Cage is a proper T4 with a slightly long animation balanced by the ability to take all those juicy damage procs from hold sets (of course, the purple one still goes in Dominate).

 

The game changer in this setup is Voltaic Sentinel. Once you use a powexec_location self macro, it's an easy 3s cast for about a dozen charged bolts. Hard to beat that kind of DPA.

But, of course, this is also the caveat. While this gives you good DPS in any situation where you're only fighting one tough target, you can't control which enemy VS will attack if you're fighting several enemies.

 

For AoEs, BL -> TB -> BL -> SC does a good job at clearing stuff. Although it's interesting to see plain Fireball -> Inferno -> Fireball from Fire tends to perform better, at least for me. With TB you need to either herd or have a mob placed at the exact center of everything (and click on it fast), while with Inferno you're the center, no aim required.

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3 hours ago, nihilii said:

procced out /psi epic

Which kinda makes me sad that abusing procs in Dominate and taking Mind Probe are such huge swings in DPS.  I guess its not that much different from just stuffing the primary powers with procs, but something about relying on Epics as cornerstones just rubs me the wrong way.  Then again, I also like to play in content low enough that I lose those powers.  So there is that.  

I have been toying around with some more sets (Fire/Fire/Fire, Ice/Ice/Ice, Elec/Energy, AR/SR, etc.), and I've been having fun with that discovery.  

Lightning Bolt - Zapping - Tesla isn't horrible if you want to bypass the Epics.  

For AR, Disorienting Shot - Slug - Disorienting Shot - Burst with multiple procs has been enlightening.  SR's Quickness being a driver to get me to 185% global recharge before the generic Ageless recharge bonus.  Incinerator still works depending on how you want to slot things, but not using it has been a slight gain. 

 

3 hours ago, nihilii said:

For AoEs, BL -> TB -> BL -> SC does a good job at clearing stuff

I probably should have included that sustained AoE DPS is a bit silly in general when any of the Sentinels can clear things just fine.  Especially after using Aim, but still serviceable even for Dual Pistols.  Though sometimes I feel that opinion is held between just you and I. LOL

Edited by oldskool
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I got 213 ST DPS with a DP/NIN, no Incarnate abilities used (this includes no Alpha).  Didn't think to use any epics in the build though.  Not sure if the redraw would hurt the DPS, but I put the Purple Hold Proc in Suppressive Fire.  DW > SF > *slight pause (.2 sec I believe it was)* ES > Repeat.

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10 hours ago, oldskool said:

Which kinda makes me sad that abusing procs in Dominate and taking Mind Probe are such huge swings in DPS.  I guess its not that much different from just stuffing the primary powers with procs, but something about relying on Epics as cornerstones just rubs me the wrong way.

I hear you on that one. Even though I grew to enjoy it personally, there's definitely a design flaw in having some of our best attacks be these specific powers. Not to mention if PPM gets nerfed at some point (which Cap Powerhouse has hinted at), Sentinels will feel the hit more than other ATs.

 

ST epic attacks are weird on any AT. Either they're worst than your primary/secondary options so why bother, or they're better and they overshadow those native options. AoEs have a niche in that it's rare to have a gapless AoE rotation (and/or some sets may lack the specific kind of TAoE/PBAoE/cone/radius you want), but ST attacks are always going to fall in an useless/overpowered binary choice IMHO.

 

10 hours ago, oldskool said:

Lightning Bolt - Zapping - Tesla isn't horrible if you want to bypass the Epics.

Indeed. Zapping - Tesla - Zapping - Lightning Bolt - Charged Bolts is also a good alternative. For my own /psi abuse build, I swap to Zap - Tesla - Zap - Charged Bolts - Ball Lightning while exemplaring. Basically getting as much Zapping with Apoc and Glad procs as possible.

 

10 hours ago, oldskool said:

Though sometimes I feel that opinion is held between just you and I. LOL

Well, I have one ingame friend who shares the opinion... Hehe. Nothing like timing those Opportunities up one after another, coupled with various -res procs. My buddy's current pet project is a Psy/SR, with which he whams AVs for 4 digit damage in our duos. Psychic Blast gets a ranged Total Focus essentially, damn if that's not fun.

That is to say, coming back to AoEs... Even on Psychic Blast and its terrible AoEs, you can just skip these, leverage Aim + Psychic Wail, grab Psy Shockwave, and end up with something decent.

Edited by nihilii
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1 hour ago, nihilii said:

Well, I have one ingame friend who shares the opinion... Hehe. Nothing like timing those Opportunities up one after another, coupled with various -res procs. My buddy's current pet project is a Psy/SR, with which he whams AVs for 4 digit damage in our duos. Psychic Blast gets a ranged Total Focus essentially, damn if that's not fun.


That is to say, coming back to AoEs... Even on Psychic Blast and its terrible AoEs, you can just skip these, leverage Aim + Psychic Wail, grab Psy Shockwave, and end up with something decent.

Not a huge shock with Psy.  Before I wrote the write-up in the collaboration thread Psy/SR was one of the first experiments.  Psy/Nin was next.  Currently there is a Psy/WP in my roster as the final evolution of that concept. 

Will Dom - Scramble Thoughts - Will Dom is available to anyone that wants to push recharge which SR is great at.  Add on Dominate and Mind Probe and it gets really strong.  Even TK Blast with procs is nothing to sneeze at. 

Psychic Blast and Psychic Mastery are like a match made in heaven.  Its one of the few primary set + epic set that I'd really recommend as a deep dive.  I've also done the comparison of the Sentinel with this powers vs a ranged only psy-Fortunata.  The Sentinel is really quite good.  Enough to make the choice a blurry pick due to all of the other goodies that Widows have.  My current Fort runs a mix of melee and psi.  This allowed my head canon to free up my concept to revisit a Psi Blast Sentinel. 

At the moment, I'm aiming to play around with Psionic Strike because I want to explore it a bit more.  On paper its kind of a hot mess, but I want to give it another shot.  Plus, I like the look of it.

While I do cringe at pushing procs hard on holds + a melee, I do like to dabble into the Epics as of late.  My two natural origin weapon based concepts (DP/SR, and AR/SR) are a bit more free to push some procs in Caltrops than my DP/Nin currently can.  My elemental concepts (Fire, Ice and Electric) all take the AoE Immobilize.  That's especially nice for Fire/Fire as I'm using both Burn and Rain of Fire with Fireball spam as necessary. 

Anyway, I don't want to side track further. Though this does seem like a fine thread to discuss general discovery of the Sentinel as it is all about making effective characters at its core.  Why else would anyone care to make a spreadsheet if it wasn't to try and discover ideal power combinations?

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2 hours ago, oldskool said:

Will Dom - Scramble Thoughts - Will Dom is available to anyone that wants to push recharge which SR is great at.  Add on Dominate and Mind Probe and it gets really strong.

Hear, hear. Basically my thought after seeing my friend's character. WD -> Scramble -> WD -> Dom -> MP ought to be a competitive attack chain, following the same model of a tier3 blast with Apoc and Glad used as often as possible with the other powers slapped in between. It's great to have the epic compliment the primary so well both thematically and mechanically. Got my baby Psy/Dark (thanks 😉 ) leveling slowly in Praetoria hoping to get there one day.

(Shoot... Talking about all of this makes me want to take a look at Ice Blast, which I dismissed so far. BIB -> BFR -> BIB -> Dom -> MP ought to be pretty good. Although it requires more recharge.)

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1 hour ago, nihilii said:

(Shoot... Talking about all of this makes me want to take a look at Ice Blast, which I dismissed so far. BIB -> BFR -> BIB -> Dom -> MP ought to be pretty good. Although it requires more recharge.)

I think you should!! 

Those attacks can take on multiple categories so they have proc options.  My Ice/Ice/Ice just runs the core of Chilling/BiB/BFR and its not horrible. 

 

(Edit: P.S., Also curious to know how that Psy/Dark turns out.  Lots of Stuns in there plus Stealth should feel super safe for play along side the heavy hitters in the primary.  It was a combo I was very close to rolling myself.)

Edited by oldskool
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On 3/4/2020 at 10:28 AM, Jotun said:

So of i am reading this right electrical blast has the lowest dps of 580?

So yeah, what Oldskool said. Take the rack and stack with a grain of salt. However, I do have an Epic'd out Electric/Energy Sent, but I never transfered it's sets into the sheet. Doing that, setting it to just Energy Aura (20% recharge bonus only) puts it to more of a middling set at 930 dps with incarnates. Not awful, just not ...Water/Bio aoe numbers.

 

If anyone is curious I'm actively adding in Epic pools with a drop down option for each one that accounts for all the fun stuff automatically. It works great for the hero epic setup of TAOE/CONE->ST->ST->T/PAOE-> some other thing as the 5th. Adding in Patrons is going to throw things for a whirl since they only loosely follow that scheme. Really it's just Mu Mastery that's ruining everything.

 

I also currently have no desire on working out the dps of a patron pet. Maybe someone else already did.

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  • 2 months later

I mean this is a lot of work of course but... I have to seriously question a lot of these numbers and I have to point out the noticeable disparities in advantage that specific sets are given, and this data is super misleading. Dual Pistols and Archery are just flat out not #1 and #2 in ST DPS, and the way you've ranked it would have people believe that to be so. In the rankings that Kaeladin did, he did not include epic pool muddlings into the DPS ranking or procs because it can get extremely murky. You can't just use Dominate and Mind Probe for Dual Pistols to make it #1 while giving Fire Blast a rotation with two different sets of Flares...

 

Am I missing something? This just seems more like "I want these sets to be high up because I like them thematically over another set" but it seems to not really accurately portray how much the sets actually produce.

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Well, the welcome page BOLDLY says to take rankings with a grain of salt. Some sets I have built, others I have not. The presence of Epic pools in the #1 set is absolutely muddling its number. At this point I'm considering removing it, or at least hiding it and making people find it. You know you can make a copy of this and update the numbers to fit your sets right? The bar is set with DP/DA/Psi. Go ahead and beat it.

 

Procs are an averaged number and they will play a role in the viability of one power against another. If a proc is doing 71.75 damage 56% of the time, it's going to average 40.18 damage average of a long enough time span. That's how these kinds of sheets work. Now look at Abyssal Gaze. It does 112 damage base. Stacked with procs it will do 541 damage. Left at the devices of just enhancements it wouldn't even do half of that. Procs play a vital role in the damage output of some sets. Regardless of this, Dark is still doing middling damage even after I build it up. I'm sure I could give it Dominate and pad its ST damage, but it's already weak AOE damage would suffer even more so it'd stay in the middle anyway. Some sets aren't destined to sit on top.

 

One thing that is not considered is mob resistance. A set like Dual Pistols may suffer a bit losing up to 25% of its damage to Lethal resistance. But as it is, everything in the sheet is on an even playing field, even if the game is not.

 

 

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I'm sorry, but including procs, epics and attack rotations that are irrespective of standardized builds or enhances renders all the data invalid.

 

If you want to compare these sets you would have to remove variables that skew data so badly that it is uncorrectable 

 

Randomness alone corrupts the data, not to mention outside factors, bias and preference.

 

Sorry, but this is beyond "take with a grain of salt" and should carry a disclaimer that "dataset used for reference is invalid"

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You know, except that procs, epics, and attack rotations are an important part of the game. And direct determiners of actual in-game performance rather than some magical, nonexistent, even keel model.

And you wonder why economists are always wrong.

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7 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

As much as I appreciate the VERY rough sheet, it still makes me want to beg @oldskool for a Psi/regen build sans fly 🙂

The "sans fly" is kinda funny.  I don't run with any travel powers in my Sentinel builds at the moment.  I don't count Combat Jumping.  I generally do not play with Hover/Fly outside of my Controllers.  
 

My Blasters do not hover blast, period.  My Defender can jump right into the thick of things too.  This is all from main play of Scrappers/Brutes back from live.  

I tinkered with Psi/Regen real quick though.  I went for Psi Mastery to include Link Minds as well as all of the other damage goodies.  Link Minds allowed me to hit 30% melee, 31% Energy/Negative, 24% Smashing/Lethal, and 25% Ranged.  The others... around 16-18.  Can't have it all.  Recharge landed around 155%, not enough for me with Psychic Blast, but Ageless would help.  Hit points nearly capped and a proc or two in every single-target attack.  

It reminded me why I prefer Super Reflexes/Energy Aura/Electrical Armor.  That 20% from those sets is a big deal to me.  Still, a Psi/Regen could be pretty good.  Probably not great, but pretty good.  Bio Armor is a lot better in my opinion but that pigpen effect may not be what you want. 

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1 minute ago, oldskool said:

The "sans fly" is kinda funny.  I don't run with any travel powers in my Sentinel builds at the moment.  I don't count Combat Jumping.  I generally do not play with Hover/Fly outside of my Controllers.  
 

My Blasters do not hover blast, period.  My Defender can jump right into the thick of things too.  This is all from main play of Scrappers/Brutes back from live.  

I tinkered with Psi/Regen real quick though.  I went for Psi Mastery to include Link Minds as well as all of the other damage goodies.  Link Minds allowed me to hit 30% melee, 31% Energy/Negative, 24% Smashing/Lethal, and 25% Ranged.  The others... around 16-18.  Can't have it all.  Recharge landed around 155%, not enough for me with Psychic Blast, but Ageless would help.  Hit points nearly capped and a proc or two in every single-target attack.  

It reminded me why I prefer Super Reflexes/Energy Aura/Electrical Armor.  That 20% from those sets is a big deal to me.  Still, a Psi/Regen could be pretty good.  Probably not great, but pretty good.  Bio Armor is a lot better in my opinion but that pigpen effect may not be what you want. 

 

Well, I have a level 38 'concept' build that I am struggling with, psi/regen, named "Gorgeous", who is a rotting hulk created as one of his first bodies by Doc Vahzilok, and eventually replaced as a holder for a random brain.

The Random Brain actually turned out to be gifted much like the clock king, so, since the body was mostly unkillable and the brain was clock kinglike, I settled (almost a year ago) On a Psi-regen sentinel and have revisited it every couple of months to try to make it work.

the...incredible slowness of Psi almost always makes me throw up my hands in despair... especially when I managed to kill a mob with TK blast while waiting for Psionic strike to actually travel to the target.

 

Well, this is the crap I have so far for a build... is it recoverable or should I just give it up and rebuild as a bio?



Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Psychic Blast
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Telekinetic Blast -- Dcm-Build%(A), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Dcm-Acc/Dmg(3), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg(5), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A)
Level 2: Reconstruction -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Prv-Heal/Rchg(7), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(9), GldArm-3defTpProc(9), UnbGrd-Max HP%(11)
Level 4: Psychic Scream -- SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprOppStr-Dmg/Rchg(13), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprOppStr-Rchg/+Opportunity(17)
Level 6: Mental Blast -- Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(19), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Thn-Acc/Dmg(21)
Level 8: Will Domination -- EntChs-Heal%(A), EntChs-Acc/Dmg(23), EntChs-Dmg/EndRdx(23), EntChs-Dmg/Rchg(25), EntChs-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(27)
Level 12: Instant Regeneration -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(27), Prv-Heal/Rchg(29), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(31), Prv-Heal(31)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Dismiss Pain -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(31), NmnCnv-Heal(33)
Level 18: Psionic Tornado -- SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg(34), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg(34)
Level 20: Integration -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(36)
Level 22: Tough -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(36), Ags-ResDam(37), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(37), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(39)
Level 24: Psychic Focus -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(39), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(39), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(40), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(40), GssSynFr--ToHit(40)
Level 26: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(42)
Level 28: Resilience -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(42)
Level 30: Scramble Thoughts -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 32: Psychic Wail -- Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Obl-Dmg(43), Obl-Acc/Rchg(43), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(45), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Mind Probe -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(45), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(46), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Moment of Glory -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(46), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 44: Psychic Shockwave -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Obl-Acc/Rchg(48), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(50), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Second Wind -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Opportunity
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-+Heal(A), PwrTrns-EndMod(11)
------------

 


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2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

I'm sorry, but including procs, epics and attack rotations that are irrespective of standardized builds or enhances renders all the data invalid.

 

If you want to compare these sets you would have to remove variables that skew data so badly that it is uncorrectable 

 

Randomness alone corrupts the data, not to mention outside factors, bias and preference.

 

Sorry, but this is beyond "take with a grain of salt" and should carry a disclaimer that "dataset used for reference is invalid"

1) Please elaborate on "standardized builds." I have never once seen two people build the same exact way. Pretending that Epic attacks aren't available when comparing between builds is going to skew data more than making them available. I've already said why procs should be present. As for attack chains, a lot of attack chains would rather pause for 0.2 seconds for an ability to refresh than just keep spamming whatever is up. That's a reasonable argument. I, however, don't have the spreadsheet know-how to implement something like that.

 

2-3) You know that everything about the game is based on random numbers, right? You have between a 5% and 95% chance to hit a mob and a dice is rolled for every. single. attack. A spreadsheet like this operates between now and infinity. If I have a 95% chance to hit with an ability doing 100 damage, and you do a parse of 100 attacks, you will more than likely come up with a number around 9500. Will it be exactly 9500? Probably not. But it will be really close. Extend that to 1000 attacks, you'll probably edge closer to 95000.

 

4) The only bias in this sheet is the fact that it's for Sentinels only. There were times when I really wanted to see if modeling something would give me a result that would beat Fire Blast, such as factoring in the -res debuffs from sonic just to find out that that ain't it. Actually, one bias I'm working on is that I have the up-time of Hybrid Assault Core factored into its effect, where I don't have it factored into the Radial, which technically it would be doing half of its damage since it's up for half the time (up 120 seconds, down 120 seconds). It's a "quick" fix that I have to apply to every sheet, which makes nothing quick, but I'll probably be doing it soon.

 

At the end of the day, if you don't like it, don't use it. 

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