Illusion / poison / mu - Looking for suggestions and improvements

[EnjoyTheJourney]

The following build is a draft plan for an illusion / poison / mu controller. The goal is to be able to take alpha on teams for most endgame content and to contribute significantly to team clear speed. The build is quite heavily backloaded for damage, as controller builds tend to be. Also, timely use of power sink will be needed to go full out, which means probably pushing buttons less often while exemp'd down below level 44. Still, it would hopefully be a reasonable contributor while exemp'd down at least to Manticore TFs (so poison trap is still available). 

 

One key feature of the build is -res stacking, as with all -res procs active, reactive radial saturated, and the -res from poison fully stacked the -res stacking would be quite high. Even with not all -res sources engaged phantom army should hit hard and team clear speed should be pretty good. 

 

Ideas for improvements are, of course, highly welcome. Thank you in advance!

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Toxic Visions: Level 50 Science Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(5), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(34)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 2: Blind -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(7), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Apc-Dam%(19)
Level 4: Envenom -- ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(7), ShlBrk-%Dam(13)
Level 6: Weaken -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-%Dam(19), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(29), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(33), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(33), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 8: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(37), Rct-ResDam%(48)
Level 10: Deceive -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(13), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(15), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(15), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(21), CrcPrs-Conf%(21)
Level 12: Superior Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(23), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(25), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 20: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(29), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(36), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(37)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(34), RedFrt-Def(43)
Level 30: Flash -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(31), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(33), Lck-%Hold(34)
Level 32: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 35: Poison Trap -- GhsWdwEmb-Acc/Hold/Rchg(A), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(39), UnbCns-Dam%(39), Arm-Dam%(40), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(40), Lck-%Hold(40)
Level 38: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(39), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(43), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(43), AchHee-ResDeb%(46)
Level 41: Charged Armor -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-ResDam(42)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Rgn-Knock%(46), Ann-ResDeb%(46)
Level 47: Summon Guardian -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(48), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(50), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(50)
Level 49: Power Sink -- EffAdp-EndMod/EndRdx(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(9), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-EndMod(11), PwrTrns-+Heal(11)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
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Edited January 31, 2021 by EnjoyTheJourney

[DocMidknight]

One question.......where's phantasm?

 

[Normal Thomas]

1 hour ago, DocMidknight said:

One question.......where's phantasm?

 

Phantasm dies pretty easily. I love it (especially since I got Overwhelming Force slotted to make cooperate with my traps and provide more control) but I can understand not wanting to take the effort to slot the power out and keep the thing alive. Especially here since this seems like a very tight build that is dedicated to chasing lots of +recharge and defense. Not sure how to optimize that further.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

On 1/31/2021 at 8:58 PM, Normal Thomas said:

Phantasm dies pretty easily. I love it (especially since I got Overwhelming Force slotted to make cooperate with my traps and provide more control) but I can understand not wanting to take the effort to slot the power out and keep the thing alive. Especially here since this seems like a very tight build that is dedicated to chasing lots of +recharge and defense. Not sure how to optimize that further.

Thank you for your responses!

 

Above is a good summary of the key reasons why phantasm wasn't selected. Essentially, with a tight build that has room for just one pet the mu pet seems like the better performing choice, compared to phantasm. That makes the build even more backloaded for damage than if phantasm was chosen, though, which is a bit unfortunate. 

 

The main alternative choices I'm currently considering have to do with making endurance management easier, even if it costs a bit of damage and trims a little off of defenses. But, I'm hoping that ageless destiny is selected often enough by teammates that for incarnate content endurance management is more of a theoretical than a practical concern. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by EnjoyTheJourney

[DocMidknight]

  after reading what @Normal Thomas said and the way he explained it......made sense to me. I  understand tight builds as I'm going through that right now with my dark/cold controller. Looking over your build in mids and I have to say it should be a nightmare for the enemies you will be fighting.....have fun with it and good luck

[oedipus_tex]

I don't have the new mids so can only comment on what I can see big picture.

 

I'd drop Tactics and Vengeance. Tactics isn't a bad power but not something you really need for Illusion. I can't investigate your powers without the new Mids, but from what I can see at a glance they seem already well slotted for Accuracy, and your Poison powers reduce Defense. Usually Tactics is used on builds where you are skimping Accuracy (e.g. to add procs instead).

 

I'd probably take Combat Jumping over Hover here. Hover is great for other Illusionists, but as a Poison you'll be in enemy's faces a lot. You can use a jetpack when you need to get off the ground. Meanwhile the mezz protection versus Immobilize that Combat Jumping provides is vital for maneuverability.

 

I'm unsure how attached you are to the Mu APP.  Mu does offer good endurance management due to Power Sink, a resist armor that offers Energy resistance, and a good AoE blast in Ball Lightning. I'm less sold on the usefulness of the Guardian pet.

 

Just to put some alternative ideas in your head, IMO if you really want a pet that will offer destructive oomph, you could go with Leviathan for Water Spout. Then you still get your Resist armor, and a heal/recovery combo in Hibernate that doubles as an escape valve if your Poison aura pulls too much aggro. Then you could add Phantasm back to the mix (skip the slow animating Bile Spray). Some people may not like how Water Spout can make enemies turn and run if you don't use it with an Immobilize, but I've had few issues with it. Two big pluses of Water Spout is it doubles as a control, which Illusion is short on, and enemies can't kill it, so you can let it loose and not worry about what it is up to. The Spout also seems to be better than most pets about not aggroing other enemies on the map.

Edited February 4, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Thank you for the suggestion re: combat jumping. Other characters that hover-blast do sometimes get immobilized even with clarion active. It is clearly possible and it wouldn't be good for this build. One possibility would be to take combat jumping instead of vengeance. But, hover and combat jumping may or may not interact well, based on some (vaguely remembered) reading done a while back.  I still currently lean in this direction, though, because mobility is so crucial for this build to function well. 

 

You make a good case for water spout being a better pet for this build. Still, a key reason for taking mu mastery is power sink because that makes it easier to refill endurance after being (mostly) drained or when end is nearly empty and blue inspirations have run out. End management could be an issue otherwise, unless ageless is taken as the destiny incarnate pick. But, since taking clarion as the destiny incarnate pick is central to the build, taking ageless is off the table*. 

 

I tend to like tactics on many characters in part because it's frustrating to be blinded and unable to target mobs. It also helps out poison trap, which shows up as having 91% accuracy with tactics running, but only 73% without it running. It has a similar effect on flash. So, even though some key powers are overslotted for accuracy with tactics running, it still helps out a couple of powers and reduces frustration associated with being blinded. 

 

Thank you, nonetheless, for thoughtful feedback and very reasonable suggestions. 

 

* In his excellent guide on poison Frosticus makes a good argument for RoP and melee hybrid, which frees up room for taking ageless. So, taking ageless can clearly be made to work. 

[Hjarki]

Two things that immediately stick out:

• Mu pet over Phantasm. Neither is going to live particularly long, so they're largely just ExpRef mules. Given that one of these choices locks you into a weak Patron Pool, I'd argue that Phantasm is the better choice.
• Vengeance over Group Invisibility. Vengeance is almost never used as anything except a LotG mule. So why wouldn't you just take Group Invisibility for the mule and get another +1.88 Defense?

I'd also argue that Psi Mastery is virtually mandatory for this build. The whole reason to play Poison is Venomous Gas, which means you need to stand in melee range. This also means that any control effect - no matter how momentary - will kill you since it will drop the protection Venomous Gas is providing. Given that you should be building for perma-PA, you should be able to perma-Indomitable Will as well. Psi gives you another LotG mule, a standard toggle and probably the best target AE available to Controllers.

 

Some other notes:

• I'd just go with 4-slot Basilisk's Gaze in the various Holds. It's one of the best sets out there, nabbing you +7.5% recharge and +1.25% Ranged Def with a mere 3 slots. You've got 4 Holds that can take it and all 4 probably should. About the only one I'd be tempted to go another way with is Poison Trap - even then, it doesn't use procs all that efficiently and life gets busy enough that just depending on epic/patron AE will probably work.
• Alkaloid can mule 5-slot Panacea for another +7.5% recharge. It's not Basilisk's Gaze or Cloud Senses, but it's still a decent chunk of recharge.
• Elixir of Life can 6-slot Preemptive Optimizations for +3.75% Ranged Def and +3.75% recharge.

With all that mind, every combination is a potentially good choice for thematic reasons but not every combination is a good choice from the standpoint of mechanics. I don't think Illusion is a particularly good pairing with Poison since there's no good reason for an Illusion Controller to enter melee range.

 

In terms of endurance, the easiest way to manage endurance is to simply not spend it. In most circumstances, Spectral Wounds/Blind aren't really competitive with Phantom Army for single target dps so it's not a big deal to simply not use them. To a large extent, you can just stand around and watch the PA kill things while you throw a debuff from time-to-time and maybe an AE attack.

[Xiddo]

On 2/6/2021 at 12:49 AM, Hjarki said:

 

• Alkaloid can mule 5-slot Panacea for another +7.5% recharge. It's not Basilisk's Gaze or Cloud Senses, but it's still a decent chunk of recharge.

Completely unrelated but I am shocked it's taken me this long to realise this. I'd misread it, for over a year and a half, to only be a rech bonus in PvP. I am... so foolish. Thank you.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

On 2/5/2021 at 7:49 PM, Hjarki said:

Two things that immediately stick out:

• Mu pet over Phantasm. Neither is going to live particularly long, so they're largely just ExpRef mules. Given that one of these choices locks you into a weak Patron Pool, I'd argue that Phantasm is the better choice.
• Vengeance over Group Invisibility. Vengeance is almost never used as anything except a LotG mule. So why wouldn't you just take Group Invisibility for the mule and get another +1.88 Defense?

I'd also argue that Psi Mastery is virtually mandatory for this build. The whole reason to play Poison is Venomous Gas, which means you need to stand in melee range. This also means that any control effect - no matter how momentary - will kill you since it will drop the protection Venomous Gas is providing. Given that you should be building for perma-PA, you should be able to perma-Indomitable Will as well. Psi gives you another LotG mule, a standard toggle and probably the best target AE available to Controllers.

 

Some other notes:

• I'd just go with 4-slot Basilisk's Gaze in the various Holds. It's one of the best sets out there, nabbing you +7.5% recharge and +1.25% Ranged Def with a mere 3 slots. You've got 4 Holds that can take it and all 4 probably should. About the only one I'd be tempted to go another way with is Poison Trap - even then, it doesn't use procs all that efficiently and life gets busy enough that just depending on epic/patron AE will probably work.
• Alkaloid can mule 5-slot Panacea for another +7.5% recharge. It's not Basilisk's Gaze or Cloud Senses, but it's still a decent chunk of recharge.
• Elixir of Life can 6-slot Preemptive Optimizations for +3.75% Ranged Def and +3.75% recharge.

With all that mind, every combination is a potentially good choice for thematic reasons but not every combination is a good choice from the standpoint of mechanics. I don't think Illusion is a particularly good pairing with Poison since there's no good reason for an Illusion Controller to enter melee range.

 

In terms of endurance, the easiest way to manage endurance is to simply not spend it. In most circumstances, Spectral Wounds/Blind aren't really competitive with Phantom Army for single target dps so it's not a big deal to simply not use them. To a large extent, you can just stand around and watch the PA kill things while you throw a debuff from time-to-time and maybe an AE attack.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful feedback.

 

I ended up agreeing with your feedback that illusion and poison are a bit of an odd match. Also important was that damage was a bit low. I ended up making another alt as a poison defender. That character is more enjoyable to play.