Ninjitsu vs Super Reflexes opinions.

[SomeGuy]

A ninja having to take protection from falling down. It's freaking stupid. Nin melee has lots of neat tools that are in the grand scheme of things...useless. SR is just...GOOD.

[Doomguide2005]

On 5/16/2021 at 4:11 PM, SomeGuy said:

A ninja having to take protection from falling down. It's freaking stupid. Nin melee has lots of neat tools that are in the grand scheme of things...useless. SR is just...GOOD.

     They get it late compared to SR, but they do get KB protection at level 28.  Dark Armor now, they don't get any KB protection.  And, of course, IO protection is easy to acquire for any AT or set.

[SomeGuy]

4 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     They get it late compared to SR, but they do get KB protection at level 28.  Dark Armor now, they don't get any KB protection.  And, of course, IO protection is easy to acquire for any AT or set.

 

When did this change happen for Ninjitsu? I have experience with it on stalkers.

[Doomguide2005]

22 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

When did this change happen for Ninjitsu? I have experience with it on stalkers.

Honestly no idea haven't direct experience with Ninjitsu since Live on my Stalker.  And reading up a bit more (HCwiki) the power only exists in the Sentinel and Scrapper versions of Ninjitsu.  It doesn't indicate when it was ported to Scrappers but I'm guessing the same time Sentinels got it which was i25.  So looks like Stalkers missed the memo and need the IOs.

[SomeGuy]

11 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Honestly no idea haven't direct experience with Ninjitsu since Live on my Stalker.  And reading up a bit more (HCwiki) the power only exists in the Sentinel and Scrapper versions of Ninjitsu.  It doesn't indicate when it was ported to Scrappers but I'm guessing the same time Sentinels got it which was i25.  So looks like Stalkers missed the memo and need the IOs.

 

Yup. Looking at it now. Scrap ninjitsu gets KB protection (5.19) with Bo Ryaku. Stalks got screwed.

[Oysterhead]

10 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

Yup. Looking at it now. Scrap ninjitsu gets KB protection (5.19) with Bo Ryaku. Stalks got screwed.

 

Yea, the Stalker Ninjitsu is underwhelming for certain. The changes from Scrapper:
Shinobi-Iri gone to make room for Hide. Makes sense, Shinobi-Iri is the 'almost-hide' power, but it has 3,38% M/R/A defense, where Hide has 1.88% to all defense. So Stalker is down a bit of Defense.

Seishinteki Kyoyo (the +end click) is dropped for Caltrops. That +end click is one of the more attractive items in Ninjitsu in my mind on scrapper, so that's a big loss. Caltrops does add some area damage for stalkers, though its slow.
Bo Ryaku dropped for Smoke Flash. Not only is this the KB protection, but 7.5% resist to all. So Stalker is down more survivability. An extra placate / escape was more attractive in the old style of stalker play, perhaps some of the stalker Ninjas still find this useful, but with chance to hide ATO, this is pretty meh in my mind. 

 

Scrapper Ninjitsu lets you be an almost-stalker, getting from Hide crits and some heal and end recovery that isn't reliant on enemies being nearby. Stalker Ninjitsu is very thematic but numerically inferior at just keeping you alive and on your feet.

[siolfir]

3 hours ago, Oysterhead said:

 

Yea, the Stalker Ninjitsu is underwhelming for certain. The changes from Scrapper:
Shinobi-Iri gone to make room for Hide. Makes sense, Shinobi-Iri is the 'almost-hide' power, but it has 3,38% M/R/A defense, where Hide has 1.88% to all defense. So Stalker is down a bit of Defense.

Seishinteki Kyoyo (the +end click) is dropped for Caltrops. That +end click is one of the more attractive items in Ninjitsu in my mind on scrapper, so that's a big loss. Caltrops does add some area damage for stalkers, though its slow.
Bo Ryaku dropped for Smoke Flash. Not only is this the KB protection, but 7.5% resist to all. So Stalker is down more survivability. An extra placate / escape was more attractive in the old style of stalker play, perhaps some of the stalker Ninjas still find this useful, but with chance to hide ATO, this is pretty meh in my mind. 

 

Scrapper Ninjitsu lets you be an almost-stalker, getting from Hide crits and some heal and end recovery that isn't reliant on enemies being nearby. Stalker Ninjitsu is very thematic but numerically inferior at just keeping you alive and on your feet.

It's nitpicking, but nothing was dropped from Ninjitsu and replaced with standard powers for Stalkers. The set started off as a Stalker-exclusive set that Scrappers coveted for years while the game was live because "I want to play a Ninja because I watched too much Naruto and that's my theme but don't want to play a Stalker because I don't want to be like a sneaky spy or assassin (unspoken: you know, like an actual ninja)."

 

It received several buffs for everyone except Stalkers when it was finally proliferated post-shutdown, presumably because whoever did the proliferation is the same idiot who nerfed Heat Loss for Corruptors (where the power originated) because the Defender version wasn't ported correctly and both ATs had the same -resistance values. Sure, Hide needed to be replaced with something but there's no excuse for making it anything beyond a stealth clone or replacing the useless noob-trap called Smoke Flash for a much better power but only for non-Stalkers, and I don't see why Caltrops couldn't have stayed and don't care if someone wants to take it in Weapon Mastery also.

Edited May 19, 2021 by siolfir

[SomeGuy]

Wow. Stalker ninjitsu sucks compared to scrapper ninjitsu. Caltrops is pretty crap unless you like runners. Like, REALLY like runners.

[TheMoncrief]

Caltrops is amazing on a Mastermind. I can't imagine ever wanting it on a melee class though. Stalker Ninjitsu just does not seem like a well designed set.

[Oysterhead]

2 hours ago, TheMoncrief said:

Caltrops is amazing on a Mastermind. I can't imagine ever wanting it on a melee class though. Stalker Ninjitsu just does not seem like a well designed set.

 

It made more sense back when Stalkers were first out. I kind of recall Ninjitsu was even considered the premier Stalker set at the time? Stalkers also weren't very impressive back then 😃 It was very much assassinate, placate, assassinate, poke at things a bit and wait for placate to come back up. Ninjitsu gave you an additional placate and caltrops could let you snare things, run away, drop into hide and come back to assassinate. Before Assassin Focus stacks were introduced, Stalkers played very weird. It was an entirely legit strategy to just stand in place for 8 seconds and wait to go back into hide... and lots of stalkers did it. It was probably better to just scrap still, but that was the only way to get the big numbers!

[Android Nim]

On 5/16/2021 at 1:30 PM, Galamane said:

Working on it now lol.

I'm levelling one now....lvl 17....not bad so far.