Ninjitsu vs Super Reflexes opinions.

[GhtRayleigh]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm interested in making a scrapper and I got the primary (StJ or Titan Weapons) and the Secondary (Ninjitsu vs Super Reflexes), and as far as the secondary powers go I'd like to know what do people think of them?

 

What are the major pro's and con's of them that I'm not seeing?

 

Because it seems to me Ninjitsu might be better because it comes with a bit more utility, while with SR you need to dive into other power pools to get the utility you need. EX: The self heal in Ninjitsu, you need to go into First Aid to get that with SR because it doesn't come with it. So you have to carry skittles with you until you can get it.

 

Now one of the things I've noticed that goes in SR's favor is that it gets capped for Defense Debuff Resistance, while Ninjitsu lacks that and so mobs that can debuff me might be a problem.

 

But is that enough to take Ninjitsu over SR? I'd love to hear other peoples opinions on this and give me some information.

 

Thanks ahead of time. 😄

 

(Edit: Spelling)

Edited April 2, 2021 by GhtRayleigh

[Thrax]

I love SR.  I much prefer it over NIN.  They are making some changes to NIN on beta so worth checking out.  I don't like being invisible but you come out of it when you attack.  I would base it on the theme of the toon.  They both perform very well at 50.  SR levels up worse on the way to 50 but 95% DDR is awesome.  Especially if you run a lot of +4 ITFs it is a huge difference.  

[Doomguide2005]

Everytime I see this type of question come up a few things pop into my mind:

--> 1000 characters per server

--> time to level, oh look I'm 50!

 

     Yes Ninjitsu has tools, fun stuff.  Self heal, self +end, self stealth, ways to add a number of globals SR has to add via pool picks (like 2 +3% defense (all) uniques).  But no knock protection until lvl 28+ (but really how long does that take) and its DDR is not going to help much against a number of common high level foes.

     And yes SR does essentially one thing.  And does it exceedingly well.  Its DDR is second to none and you'll be dead from straight up punishment before anything truly defdebuffs you.  Cascade failure is not going to happen.  The defense you have is yours to keep.  You can readily get the softcap without any set bonuses at all.  That leaves you in a position not often seen on defense builds, a complete freedom to chase other set bonuses.  On mine I stacked up enough +max health to add hundreds of hit points to her maximum (2100+ health).

     I'd make both (see those things I mentioned at the top of the post) but my first ever character, my first 50, my 'main of mains' is a Claws/SR a scrapper.  Then again my first villain was a Claws/Nin stalker so ...

 

     I will say I've never found the need for Aid Self on my scrapper for survival/urgent healing.  Her current build has it, my last version on Live had it.  In both cases it's a mule for set bonuses and Aid Another for chasing the Healing related badges.  I could count on one hand the number of times I've used it to survive and have 5 fingers left.  If she needs a quick boost because some Incarnate AV smacked her hard she has Rebirth.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Doomguide2005
Typos, clarity

[Aracknight]

I tried /nin.  It didn't feel as sturdy as SR.  I liked the +end and the heal clicks, but i fill those gaps on SR with temp powers that do the same thing.  The main draw for me with /nin was the movement speed, but that's being changed with the new page on beta sooo....

 

 

A lot of folks call SR a one trick pony, but it isn't.  I think that the scaling resistances are a big deal.  if you can grab 15% resistance to all through set bonuses/tough, then at 40% hit points you're at the scrapper resist cap, while at the defense soft cap, and with some accolades and other set bonuses, that 40% number is pretty good (My scrapper has 2007 hit points.).  I rock a rebirth regen destiny slot, and the defense/scaling resist/regen gives me some *really* good layered mitigation.

 

Nin just felt way more fragile to me the entire time I played it.  Even when built out to the soft cap, I got sent to the hospital *way* more often than with SR.

 

[Pzn]

I love both sets.  For me the pros of Ninjitsu are a self heal, endurance click, toxic resistance, and psionic resistance.  Combined with good positionals this means that a ninjitsu build essentially has no holes outside of powerful defense debuffs.  Like you said, that's the main strength of SR in comparison.  That along with quickness for additional recharge.  Ninjitsu also requires less power picks to get the majority of it's best powers while SR requires 8/9 picks to maximize it's effectiveness.  The toxic and psi resists in ninjitsu are both stackable (in the heal and mez click respectively) and really complement the rest of the set since those attacks often bypass positional defense.  It really just depends on the content you expect to be running.  SR can tank defense debuffs all day but will die quickly to anything that bypasses it's defense.

[xl8]

If you're relatively new to the game, I'd suggest /nin for the playability.

If not, I'd say go with whichever power fits your character's identity better, because that will make you want to play it more in the long run.

[BrandX]

/Nin may lack KB Protection until level 28, but it's a defense based set, so you're not getting hit, to get knocked back as often as a resist based set with no KB Protection.

 

Get over that 45% to help with -Defense.

 

/Nin also has two powers to skip (if one chooses) while /SR is just one.

 

/Nin's +SPD is just being moved, it's not disappearing, so it still has that 🙂

[DreadShinobi]

/nin can pick up the knockback protection sg base buff whenever playing below level 28.

[Diephoon]

On 4/3/2021 at 3:57 AM, DreadShinobi said:

/nin can pick up the knockback protection sg base buff whenever playing below level 28.

Would you please elaborate and enlighten me on this?  I was not aware there are sg base buffs.

[Grindingsucks]

@Diephoon

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Supercollider

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Mystic_Crucible

[GhtRayleigh]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the info and the opinions that have helped me make a decision. 

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. It was SR 😄

[Crysis]

Note that it’s not that hard to up your DDR on a /Nin....it won’t equal what you can do with /SR, but it is a nice second place relatively speaking especially once you start looking at Incarnate Radial branch DDR bonuses and double stacking what /Nin has natively.

 

But I tend to play them a bit differently overall.  /SR is the classic no-fuss/toggle-up-and-forget-it kind of set.  It synchs very well with primaries that require a lot of clicking or that utilize combo’s.  /Nin is a far more active set for damage mitigation and I prefer it for simpler primaries that just let me mash buttons.  And, of course, for themed builds.

[ninja surprise]

On 4/5/2021 at 5:05 PM, GhtRayleigh said:

I just wanted to thank everyone for the info and the opinions that have helped me make a decision. 

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. It was SR 😄

 

Which primary did you go with? I would have suggested /Nin to go with Titan Weapons, because the +end recovery power saves your hide more often than the heal does. You'll defeat stuff super quick but run out of endurance in the second spawn.  Plus, doing a massive AoE from hide with auto-crit is a blast! But if you get good endurance discounts via set bonuses, it's fine.

 

Street Justice / SR is a great combo though.

 

On 4/1/2021 at 10:11 PM, Aracknight said:

A lot of folks call SR a one trick pony, but it isn't.  I think that the scaling resistances are a big deal. 

 

Plus it has the auto power with +speed and +recharge and I love it so much I totally miss it on any other toon. 

[Gobbledygook]

On 4/11/2021 at 11:04 AM, ninja surprise said:

Plus, doing a massive AoE from hide with auto-crit is a blast! 

 

Wait, what?

Critting out of hide, on a Scrapper?

Is that on /Nin?

If so, now I have another alternative to roll.

[ninja surprise]

Yep, but they just changed it overall in today's patch. It was auto-crit after hiding for 20 seconds, now it's very big chance to crit after 8 seconds -- about how long it takes to run down a hall and find some badguys.

 

• Quote

   

  •  Scrapper > Shinobi-Iri
    • This power no longer grants movement buffs (as they would be absorbed into the new stacking mechanics)
      • This power no longer accepts Jump, Run and Universal Travel enhancements
      • The buff has been toned down and moved to Kuji-In Rin
    • Stealth crit mechanic has been significantly improved
      • Now kicks in after 8s of no combat, rather than 20s
        • This allows the bonus to be used every encounter without requiring you to stop for 20s
      • Stealth crit chance for single target attacks is now 65%
      • Stealth crit chance for AoE attacks is now 30%
    • Power icon updated
  •  Sentinel > Shinobi-Iri
    • This power no longer grants movement buffs (as they would be absorbed into the new stacking mechanics)
      • This power no longer accepts Jump, Run and Universal Travel enhancements
      • The buff has been toned down and moved to Kuji-In Rin
    • Stealth damage buff has been doubled from +20% to +40%
    • Power icon updated
  •  Scrapper | Sentinel | Stalker > Kuji-In Rin
    • This power now grants a small run speed and jumping buff (and as a click power, this will stack with all other movement buffs)
      • This power now accepts Jump, Run and Universal Travel enhancements
    • This power now accepts damage resistance sets (which will improve the psionic resistance component)

   

  •  

[Heraclea]

Biggest issue I have with Ninjitsu is remembering the names of the powers and relating them to what they do.  For me, the real names of the powers are 'the melee defense toggle, the other defense toggle, the click mez protection, and etc.'

[Doomguide2005]

6 hours ago, Heraclea said:

Biggest issue I have with Ninjitsu is remembering the names of the powers and relating them to what they do.  For me, the real names of the powers are 'the melee defense toggle, the other defense toggle, the click mez protection, and etc.'

Shhhhh, shouldn't you be giving them Greek names?

[JayboH]

If redraw is a thing for your character, SR will have you doing it a lot less.

[TheMoncrief]

2 hours ago, JayboH said:

If redraw is a thing for your character, SR will have you doing it a lot less.

Can't you just disable redraw in your power customization? Or are there some weapon sets where redraw cannot be disabled?

[JayboH]

5 hours ago, TheMoncrief said:

Can't you just disable redraw in your power customization? Or are there some weapon sets where redraw cannot be disabled?

 

8 hours ago, JayboH said:

If redraw is a thing for your character, SR will have you doing it a lot less.

 

[Gobbledygook]

On 4/21/2021 at 12:08 AM, ninja surprise said:

Yep, but they just changed it overall in today's patch. It was auto-crit after hiding for 20 seconds, now it's very big chance to crit after 8 seconds -- about how long it takes to run down a hall and find some badguys.

 

• •  

Getting ready to roll the new toon up this weekend, just had a thought pop up in my head though.

With Shinobi-Iri having 65% crit chance on a single target attack from hide, with the Scrapper global proc, does that, does anyone knows how those affect each other? Would we be able to get a near guaranteed crit out of hide on our big single target hitter?

I mean, I know it's no  Stalker AS, but, hell maybe I'm just to damn tired, and I've been playing too many Br00Ts lately so my head is fried.

 

If you're feeling adventurous, try and answer, if not, I understand, lol.

[Heraclea]

43 minutes ago, Gobbledygook said:

With Shinobi-Iri having 65% crit chance on a single target attack from hide, with the Scrapper global proc, does that, does anyone knows how those affect each other?

I am currently levelling a Staff/Ninjitsu character, a pure concept character, an attempt to build a light retiarius gladiator that has naught to do with Japan.  I have the +crit chance proc in Guarded Spin, my opener.  Guarded Spin does seem to both crit when done out of stealth, and proc the proc so that Eye of the Storm, which usually follows, will crit against several targets.  Not sure I am getting the most out of my stealth bonus this way, but it has worked so far. 

[Galamane]

So what do you guys think about martial arts /ninjitsu /soul mastery. 

I'm thinking about rolling one for a theme hero. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Galamane

[ninja surprise]

1 hour ago, Galamane said:

So what do you guys think about martial arts /ninjitsu /soul mastery. 

I'm thinking about rolling one for a theme hero. 

 

Sounds good do it!

[Galamane]

Working on it now lol.