What A/PPP & Incarnates for Toxic Tides

[Scarlet Shocker]

I have to respec my Poison/Water Defender, which is now at 50 and has now started working on my Alpha, having run a couple of BAFs.

 

It does really badly need respeccing and I'm thinking this is an opportunity to make it really good. I've enjoyed it a lot on the journey so far and I feel like it could be truly excellent.

 

There's no APP/PPP that really leaps off the page for me personally, so I thought I'd throw it out there and see what you guys think. The diversity of opinion here is sure to give me some interesting ideas.

 

Other things to consider:

• I intend to skip Alkaloid, Elixir and Antidote - this was a toon that solos a lot and I don't want to waste powers
• I took Stealth and intend to slot a Stealth IO in one of my sprints
• Combat and Superjump - because she needs to be on the ground for many powers
• Manoeuvres and Tactics because

 

You can tell from that she's not terribly geared to team play (but has proven invaluable on a team) so that may influence feedback

 

[Bionic_Flea]

Scorpion Shield is a classic choice to get your defender to softcap defense to S/L and possibly E.

 

Another thematic option is Leviathan Mastery - You can have Sharks circling in your whirlpool and it traps things there!

 

You can also pick up Hibernate for an "Oh crap!" save, Shark Skin for S/L/C resist, and a very procable Hold in Spirit Shark Jaws

Edited June 15, 2021 by Bionic_Flea

[Scarlet Shocker]

5 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Scorpion Shield is a classic choice to get your defender to softcap defense to S/L and possibly E.

 

Another thematic option is Leviathan Mastery - You can have Sharks circling in your whirlpool and it traps things there!

 

You can also pick up Hibernate for an "Oh crap!" save, Shark Skin for S/L/C resist, and a very procable Hold in Spirit Shark Jaws

 

 

That sold me. I do like Leviathan, I think it's under used but this is something I'd never considered and thematically as you say it goes with the theme. I had considered her back story (Science) as having been infected with Coralax genes by Crey or some similar outfit - that would work wonderfully and I think I even get a pet too.

[JuggernautJ]

I am in exactly the same boat!

My Poison/Water Defender just hit 50 and I BAFed enough tonight to open my Alpha Slot...

 

So what are the best Incarnate abilities for a debuffing Defender?

I am using Hasten and find I can stack several debuffs on an AV with the recharge boost.

Is that a sound strategy? What have others tried?

Any advice will be much appreciated!

[Bionic_Flea]

I took Agility Core (defense and recharge), Diagmagnetic Core (additional debuffing), Cryonic Core (seemed thematic with Water), Clarion Radial ( mez resistance as well as boosts to defense and special) and Support Radial (defense, damage, special)

[Scarlet Shocker]

Thanks. Good info.

 

This is a build I've come up with but it's lacking and I'm not great at Mids but I'd welcome input:

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Toxic Tides: Level 50 Science Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Water Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Envenom -- AnlWkn-%ToHit(A), AnlWkn-DefDeb(3), AnlWkn-Acc/DefDeb(15), AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg(17), AchHee-ResDeb%(19)
Level 1: Aqua Bolt -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), Dcm-Build%(7)
Level 2: Weaken -- DarWtcDsp-Slow%(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(9), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(21), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(23)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(5)
Level 6: Neurotoxic Breath -- PcnoftheT--Rchg%(A), PcnoftheT-Acc/Slow(7)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(11)
Level 10: Water Burst -- PcnoftheT--Rchg%(A), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(11), FrcFdb-Rechg%(13), Ann-ResDeb%(25)
Level 12: Whirlpool -- Ann-Acc/Dmg(A), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(13), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Ann-ResDeb%(33)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(15)
Level 16: Tidal Forces -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit(17)
Level 18: Paralytic Poison -- BslGaz-Slow%(A), BslGaz-Acc/Hold(19), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(34), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(36), Lck-%Hold(36)
Level 20: Dehydrate -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(21), AchHee-ResDeb%(37)
Level 22: Tactics -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-Pcptn(23)
Level 24: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25)
Level 26: Poison Trap -- PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(A), PreOptmz-Acc/Rech(27), PreOptmz-EndMod/End(27)
Level 28: Water Jet -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(46)
Level 30: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(31)
Level 32: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-Slow%(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(37), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(39), AchHee-ResDeb%(39)
Level 35: Steam Spray -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(42)
Level 38: Geyser -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(39), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(42), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(42), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(43), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(43)
Level 41: Shark Skin -- ImpSki-Status(A), Ags-Psi/Status(43), GldArm-3defTpProc(45), UnbGrd-Max HP%(45)
Level 44: Spirit Shark Jaws -- Lck-%Hold(A), Lck-Acc/Hold(45), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Summon Coralax -- ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(A), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(48), SlbAll-Build%(48), SvrRgh-PetResDam(48), EdcoftheM-PetDef(50), SlbAll-Dmg(50)
Level 49: Hibernate -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-EndRdx(A), UnbLea-Stlth(5)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(3), Mrc-Rcvry+(34)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-+Heal(A), PrfShf-End%(9), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(33)
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
Level 1: Shield Drone Pet
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Vanguard Medal
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

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[Bionic_Flea]

How does this look?  More expensive for sure, but it looks good to me.  I took out stealth because most of the defense it's granting you suppresses in combat -- any attack you make, blinkie you click, or critter that attacks you makes most of that defense go bye-bye.  I added back Antidote and Alkaloid so you can at least pretend to heal and buff teammates and your Coralax pet.  They also mule some nice globals IOs for you.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Toxic Tides - Flea revision: Level 50 Science Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Water Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Envenom

• (A) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
• (45) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Defense Debuff
• (45) Analyze Weakness - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
• (45) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 1: Aqua Bolt

• (A) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage
• (5) Superior Defender's Bastion - Damage/Recharge
• (7) Superior Defender's Bastion - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (7) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (11) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (11) Superior Defender's Bastion - Recharge/Chance for Minor PBAoE Heal
  

Level 2: Weaken

• (A) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff
• (43) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/ToHitDebuff
• (46) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
  

Level 4: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (23) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 6: Kick

• (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
  

Level 8: Combat Jumping

• (A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
• (9) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
• (9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 10: Water Burst

• (A) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage
• (13) Superior Vigilant Assault - Damage/RechargeTime
• (13) Superior Vigilant Assault - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (15) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (17) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (17) Superior Vigilant Assault - RechargeTime/PBAoE +Absorb
  

Level 12: Whirlpool

• (A) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage
• (19) Superior Frozen Blast - Damage/Endurance
• (19) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (21) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (21) Superior Frozen Blast - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
• (23) Superior Frozen Blast - Recharge/Chance for Immobilize
  

Level 14: Maneuvers

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (15) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
  

Level 16: Tidal Forces

• (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
  

Level 18: Paralytic Poison

• (A) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold
• (46) Superior Entomb - Hold/Recharge
• (46) Superior Entomb - Endurance/Recharge
• (47) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold/Endurance
• (47) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold/Endurance/Recharge
• (48) Superior Entomb - Recharge/Chance for +Absorb
  

Level 20: Dehydrate

• (A) Apocalypse - Damage
• (34) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (36) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
• (36) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
• (37) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
• (37) Healing IO
  

Level 22: Alkaloid

• (A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
  

Level 24: Tough

• (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• (25) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
• (25) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (27) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (27) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (29) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
  

Level 26: Poison Trap

• (A) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• (29) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• (31) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Accuracy/Endurance
• (31) Neuronic Shutdown - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• (31) Neuronic Shutdown - Accuracy/Endurance
• (34) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
  

Level 28: Water Jet

• (A) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
• (37) Superior Winter's Bite - Damage/RechargeTime
• (40) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (42) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (43) Superior Winter's Bite - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
• (43) Superior Winter's Bite - Recharge/Chance for -Speed & -Recharge
  

Level 30: Super Jump

• (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
• (34) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
  

Level 32: Venomous Gas

• (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff
• (33) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
• (33) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
• (33) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
  

Level 35: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 38: Geyser

• (A) Ragnarok - Damage
• (39) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
• (39) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (39) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
• (40) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
• (40) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
  

Level 41: Shark Skin

• (A) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
• (42) Aegis - Resistance
• (42) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 44: Summon Coralax

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance
• (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (49) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
  

Level 47: Antidote

• (A) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance
  

Level 49: Hibernate

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 1: Vigilance

Level 1: Brawl

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Celerity - +Stealth
  

Level 2: Rest

• (A) Empty
  

Level 2: Swift

• (A) Run Speed IO
  

Level 2: Hurdle

• (A) Jumping IO
  

Level 2: Health

• (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
• (5) Miracle - +Recovery
  

Level 2: Stamina

• (A) Power Transfer - EndMod
• (3) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self
• (3) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  

Level 1: Combo Level 1

Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
Level 1: Shield Drone Pet
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Vanguard Medal
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 30: Double Jump
Level 50: Clarion Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Support Radial Embodiment
------------

 

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

I take your point about Stealth but I often take it since with an IO slotted it gives great invis and is cheap.

 

I like the build, but I did notice you'd sold me on the sharks in the whirlpool and then omitted them.

 

I do like Neurotoxic Breath. It seems to be very effective against all levels of foes, for relatively cheap cost, I guess that's why its cone is so narrow. I also hate hate hate the fighting pool because of the fact it takes three powers to get the good stuff. That's not to decry the benefits of the end result, but it means at least a couple of powers I'd ordinarily want to take have to be left out.

 

I do take your point about Alkaloid and Antidote for the Coralax. He's going to be a fundamental part of my attach chain so I need to keep him/her/it/them/they alive

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Scarlet Shocker

[Bionic_Flea]

It's your build.  Make it to suit you.  I just tossed some ideas your way and made changes to your initial build to something that would suit me.  There are almost always painful choices to make when you have limited power and slotting selections.

 

The shark I was talking about was the AoE Cone immobilize, School of Sharks.  A group of sharks get launched from you to target and then swim in a circle.  If you have Whirlpool going it looks like they are swimming in the pool.  Spirit Shark Jaws is a single target hold that looks like a single giant Great White breaching up from the ground.  It can look like its coming from the whirlpool if active, but its animation is over in a second while the school lingers a bit longer.

 

I have School of Sharks, Shark Skin, and Hibernate on my Water/Storm Corrupter but Scorpion Shield with other stuff on my Poison/Water.  I have never taken Neurotoxic Breath on any poison because a narrow cone slow with only 25% chance of a mag 2 hold doesn't seem worth it to me.  But again, that's me.  You gotta make what you like.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Bionic_Flea

[Scarlet Shocker]

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Toxic Tides R3: Level 50 Science Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Water Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Prv-Absorb%(7)
Level 1: Aqua Bolt -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), AchHee-ResDeb%(11)
Level 2: Envenom -- AnlWkn-%ToHit(A), AnlWkn-DefDeb(13), AnlWkn-Acc/DefDeb(13), AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg(15), AchHee-ResDeb%(15)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(5)
Level 6: Weaken -- DarWtcDsp-Slow%(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(17), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(17), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(19)
Level 8: Neurotoxic Breath -- Range-I(A)
Level 10: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(21)
Level 12: Whirlpool -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(25), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(25)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(27), Rct-ResDam%(27)
Level 16: Tidal Forces -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 18: Paralytic Poison -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(29), SprEnt-End/Rchg(29), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(31), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(31), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(31)
Level 20: Dehydrate -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), ThfofEss-+End%(33), Pnc-Heal/+End(33), Mrc-Rcvry+(33)
Level 22: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(34), UnbGrd-Max HP%(34), UnbGrd-ResDam(34), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 26: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(36)
Level 28: Water Jet -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg(37), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Apc-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 30: Water Burst -- Ann-Acc/Dmg(A), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(39), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Ann-ResDeb%(40)
Level 32: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-Slow%(A), DflEgo-RecDeb%(40), AchHee-ResDeb%(42)
Level 35: School of Sharks -- GrvAnc-Hold%(A), GrvAnc-Immob(42), GrvAnc-Immob/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Shark Skin -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(43), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(43), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(43), ImpSki-Status(50)
Level 41: Geyser -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(45), Artl-Dam/Rech(45), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(48), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(48), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(50)
Level 44: Summon Coralax -- CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(A), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(45), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(46), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(46), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(46), EdcoftheM-PetDef(48)
Level 47: Antidote -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A)
Level 49: Hibernate -- Pnc-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(3), PrfShf-End%(3)
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: Vanguard Medal
------------

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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I've spent all morning on this!

 

I thought NtB was better than that. It certainly seems to make foes grind to a halt

 

But here's what I've come up with.  By junking Poison Trap I can Hover which is my preference I think,  though if what you say about NtB is right I might have to rethink. But it's a very cheap power

[Onlyasandwich]

May I ask what priorities you are focused on in your IO slotting? I see some various investments in different types of defense, but it's a bit all over the place.

 

From a power choice perspective:

• If you are grabbing a hold, Spirit Shark Jaws is a much better hold than Paralytic Poison. It is more proc-friendly, and has a faster cast time. /water lacks in single target punch, so it is really worth proccing out a hold for damage.
• Poison Trap isn't a game-breaking power, but I think it's a mistake to skip it on Poison. It is more powerful than NTB, and can be a very effective proc bomb, as it takes a bajillion of them and has desirable recharge stats for it.  It also provides a more consistent aoe control effect, though neither are amazing at this.
• Healing your Coralax is a losing battle. Alkaloid is a weak heal, and will take more animation time than it is worth. I would only consider alkaloid as perhaps a mule for the absorb proc.
• Steam Spray is one of /water's all-star powers. It has excellent damage, a wide cone, and provides extra proc opportunities for more damage - especially useful on a defender. I would consider picking this up. Easy drops would be Alkaloid, antidote, or even NTB.
• I think NTB looks fun (vomit, woo!), and works sort of okay, but the cone is too narrow. I would pick it up if I had powers to spare, but it's very second tier in my book.

 

There is much more that I would personally change in a full rehaul, but here are some observations on current slotting:

• The deflated ego recovery debuff proc is not useful at all. Same goes for the chance for recharge slow, both in Venemous Gas. The achilles is okay here if you have nowhere else for it, but you already have it slotted in more effective powers like dehydrate, and steam spray would be good for an aoe option. VG is strong as a one slot wonder with a tohit debuff/end enhancement of some type. I like using an HO myself.
• You have over-invested in Coralax. It's a perfectly fine pet, but APP pets are not very durable, and investing the extra pet aura IOs isn't going to make a lot of difference.
• The absolute amazement in geyser is a waste. The proc especially is going to wear off before the stun does anyhow.
• The extra bits of psi resistance thrown in with IOs aren't adding up to anything useful. These slots would be better served in something like filling out Steam Spray if you grab it.
• Shark Skin is underslotted for resist, even though you have five slots in the power.
• You could leverage the Defender ATOs better. You are one shy of six slot easy recharge bonus in aqua bolt, and the achilles has very bad proc chances here. You are also not using the other ATOs at all, which provide a great split 3 slot recharge bonus, and the other ATO proc provides an excellent extra layer of absorb in your attack chain.

 

Overall, this build will probably get along on the strengths of defender modifiers for poison's strong baseline power, but I would advise choosing some specific goals and focusing on them for IO investment. Power choice is always going to be personal to a degree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Scarlet Shocker]

2 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

May I ask what priorities you are focused on in your IO slotting? I see some various investments in different types of defense, but it's a bit all over the place.

 

From a power choice perspective:

• If you are grabbing a hold, Spirit Shark Jaws is a much better hold than Paralytic Poison. It is more proc-friendly, and has a faster cast time. /water lacks in single target punch, so it is really worth proccing out a hold for damage.
• Poison Trap isn't a game-breaking power, but I think it's a mistake to skip it on Poison. It is more powerful than NTB, and can be a very effective proc bomb, as it takes a bajillion of them and has desirable recharge stats for it.  It also provides a more consistent aoe control effect, though neither are amazing at this.
• Healing your Coralax is a losing battle. Alkaloid is a weak heal, and will take more animation time than it is worth. I would only consider alkaloid as perhaps a mule for the absorb proc.
• Steam Spray is one of /water's all-star powers. It has excellent damage, a wide cone, and provides extra proc opportunities for more damage - especially useful on a defender. I would consider picking this up. Easy drops would be Alkaloid, antidote, or even NTB.
• I think NTB looks fun (vomit, woo!), and works sort of okay, but the cone is too narrow. I would pick it up if I had powers to spare, but it's very second tier in my book.

 

There is much more that I would personally change in a full rehaul, but here are some observations on current slotting:

• The deflated ego recovery debuff proc is not useful at all. Same goes for the chance for recharge slow, both in Venemous Gas. The achilles is okay here if you have nowhere else for it, but you already have it slotted in more effective powers like dehydrate, and steam spray would be good for an aoe option. VG is strong as a one slot wonder with a tohit debuff/end enhancement of some type. I like using an HO myself.
• You have over-invested in Coralax. It's a perfectly fine pet, but APP pets are not very durable, and investing the extra pet aura IOs isn't going to make a lot of difference.
• The absolute amazement in geyser is a waste. The proc especially is going to wear off before the stun does anyhow.
• The extra bits of psi resistance thrown in with IOs aren't adding up to anything useful. These slots would be better served in something like filling out Steam Spray if you grab it.
• Shark Skin is underslotted for resist, even though you have five slots in the power.
• You could leverage the Defender ATOs better. You are one shy of six slot easy recharge bonus in aqua bolt, and the achilles has very bad proc chances here. You are also not using the other ATOs at all, which provide a great split 3 slot recharge bonus, and the other ATO proc provides an excellent extra layer of absorb in your attack chain.

 

Overall, this build will probably get along on the strengths of defender modifiers for poison's strong baseline power, but I would advise choosing some specific goals and focusing on them for IO investment. Power choice is always going to be personal to a degree.

 

 

Ok good question and some interesting points thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.

 

I was going for an "all round" build - one that would give me a broad basis for soloing against different enemies.

 

As for the rest, you've given me thoughts to consider and process. If you have a build based around your suggestions I'd love to see it.

 

[Onlyasandwich]

3 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

build

 

I put together a build that represents broadly where I would go if I kept the spirit of your build. 

 

There is 100% further optimization to be done here, but hopefully some of the choices shown will be helpful to you. Note that this build leverages procs heavily. Both aoe and ST damage as a result are much higher overall. I don't prefer the Bastion ATO set in whirlpool, but it is a practical compromise in this combo.

 

If this were purely my own character, I would remove School of Sharks entirely and cannibalize those slots to round out bonuses elsewhere. I know I said that coralax was overslotted, but I did keep it at 6 just for the sake of some set bonuses. Again, this is by no means a final version - I suspect we could eke out softcap ranged and maybe some other bonuses with some extra iteration.

 

The philosophy here is to focus on ranged defense as much as possible without sacrificing much damage. You can typically allow your debuffs between VG and Weaken to make up the difference. You don't have great melee defense, but there again you will be hitting poison trap to mitigate melee, and VG will be within range to debuff melee at all times.

 

There are a few powers that were taken basically just to mule a single IO (Alkaloid and Elixir) and save precious slots. If you dropped school of sharks, you could mule the absorb proc into Hibernate instead, and actually have a useful power instead of Alkaloid. Meanwhile, Elixir does get occasional use.

 

This build is begging for Musculature Radial, and most likely Clarion in incarnate land.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Water Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Envenom -- HO:Lyso(A)
Level 1: Aqua Bolt -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(37), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 2: Weaken -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(3), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(3), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(19), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), CldSns-%Dam(34)
Level 4: Water Burst -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(5), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(5), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(9), PstBls-Dam%(17), FrcFdb-Rechg%(17)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(9)
Level 8: Elixir of Life -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 10: Whirlpool -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(15)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Tidal Forces -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 18: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), HO:Ribo(43)
Level 20: Dehydrate -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(21), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), TchoftheN-%Dam(25), TchofLadG-%Dam(34), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(23), Rct-Def(23), Rct-Def/EndRdx(25)
Level 24: Alkaloid -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 26: Poison Trap -- Arm-Acc/Rchg(A), Obl-%Dam(27), Erd-%Dam(27), NrnSht-Dam%(33), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(33), Arm-Dam%(33)
Level 28: Water Jet -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(29), ImpSwf-Dam%(31), GldJvl-Dam%(31), Apc-Dam%(31)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Venomous Gas -- HO:Enzym(A)
Level 35: Steam Spray -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), AchHee-ResDeb%(36), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(36), PstBls-Dam%(37), TchofLadG-%Dam(37)
Level 38: Geyser -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(39), Artl-Dam/Rech(39), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(39), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(40), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(40)
Level 41: Shark Skin -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam(42), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Spirit Shark Jaws -- HO:Nucle(A), GldJvl-Dam%(42), GldNet-Dam%(45), NrnSht-Dam%(46), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(46), UnbCns-Dam%(46)
Level 47: School of Sharks -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(50), Artl-Dam/Rech(51), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(51), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(51), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(51)
Level 49: Summon Coralax -- ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(51), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(51), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(51), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(51)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(7)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(7)
Level 1: Combo Level 1 
Level 1: Combo Level 2 
Level 1: Combo Level 3 
------------

 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Scarlet Shocker]

Thanks Onlyasandwich, that was interesting.

 

I've looked at your build and Flea's too and come up with this which I'm pretty happy wtih. Re-reading Frosticus' guide to Poisons I realised I'd misunderstood what NtB was so I did junk it but that allowed me to add Poison Trap. I also junked Hibernate -  it's a very useful "Oh shit" button but I figure I've got enough holds, Def & Res to be able to run away instead if stuff gets difficult

 

I'm pretty happy wtih this, I think it gives me good all round protection and allows me to deliver some good damage, especially when on song so many thanks for your help chaps! 😀

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Toxic Tides Final: Level 50 Science Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Water Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Alkaloid -- HO:Ribo(A)
Level 1: Aqua Bolt -- SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(A), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(7), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Envenom -- ShlBrk-%Dam(A), ShlBrk-DefDeb(3), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(11), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(15), Ksm-ToHit+(15)
Level 8: Weaken -- DarWtcDsp-Slow%(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(17), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(17), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(19)
Level 10: Water Burst -- Ann-Acc/Dmg(A), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(19), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Ann-ResDeb%(23)
Level 12: Antidote -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A)
Level 14: Whirlpool -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(25), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(27), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(29)
Level 16: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(29), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(46)
Level 18: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 20: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(31), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(33), GldArm-3defTpProc(33)
Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(33)
Level 24: Paralytic Poison -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(34), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(36), SprEnt-End/Rchg(43), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(46), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(46)
Level 26: Tidal Forces -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 28: Dehydrate -- ThfofEss-+End%(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(34), Mrc-Rcvry+(34)
Level 30: Poison Trap -- Lck-Acc/Hold(A), Lck-%Hold(36)
Level 32: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-Slow%(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(36), DflEgo-RecDeb%(37)
Level 35: Steam Spray -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(37), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(45)
Level 38: Geyser -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(39), Artl-Dam/Rech(39), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(40), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(40), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(40)
Level 41: Shark Skin -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(42), Ags-ResDam(42), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), ImpSki-Status(43)
Level 44: School of Sharks -- GrvAnc-Hold%(A), GrvAnc-Acc/Rchg(45), GrvAnc-Immob/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Summon Coralax -- ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(48), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(48), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(50), EdcoftheM-PetDef(50)
Level 49: Spirit Shark Jaws -- Lck-%Hold(A), Lck-Acc/Hold(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- NmnCnv-Heal(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(5), PrfShf-End%(5)
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
------------

 

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Edited June 18, 2021 by Scarlet Shocker

[arcane]

Psychic would also synergize well. World of Confusion synergizes with Venomous Gas, and Dominate helps your single target damage. Though the synergy is even greater on a controller where you can do things like 3 PBAoE toggles (Adding Conductive Aura/Hot Feet/Arctic Air) and mez protection. 
 

My Poison/Dark has procs in both Venomous Gas and World of Confusion constantly adding extra damage and -res in melee while I’m scrapping.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I'm finding I need a bind to turn Whirlpool into a targetted AoE rather than a Ground AoE

 

Is there a good bind for Poison Trap too?

 

 

 

[Onlyasandwich]

No bind is really applicable for Poison Trap, as it just casts at your feet. Fortunately, it also casts super fast.

 

Use the powexeclocation command set to Target for Whirlpool.

 

Example: bind e "powexeclocation Target Whirlpool"

 

A few notes for the final build:

• I would heavily advise accuracy in Weaken. It is not auto hit, and does not have strong base accuracy. For this reason, it is much better suited to accurate tohit debuff sets than regular tohit debuff like Dark Watcher.
• There is no good reason to slot panacea and miracle in an dehydrate instead of health. Health will guarantee they tick even when not firing a power. Dehydrate is a good attack, and it is a shame to see it neglected as such. 
• You have hit aoe softcap defense, but no others. Aoe is probably the least important vector to softcap. 
  • If you are focusing on an aspect of defense, melee and ranged are much more important, or Smash/Lethal/Energy if your powers are better suited for slotting in that direction.
• Poison Trap is not really a great power if you are underslotting it and just using it as a hold. I still think its better than NTB in that case, but its true power comes from filling it with procs.
• I see that you dropped Water jet, and Spirit Shark Jaws is only slotted as a hold (no damage procs). Water jet is your bread and butter single target in /Water. Even with it, the set suffers without a good punch in a proccy hold. Without it, you will take an eternity to kill harder targets.
• There is no reason to use the deflated ego recovery debuff in any build, but especially not this build. You could potentially make an edge argument for it in a sapper build with /electric, but you don't have any sapping ability, so this will do literally nothing.

 

You still have a lot of odd choices that I would not make in the build, but do what you enjoy! You have seen my previous input and I'm sure accounted for your own preference. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Bionic_Flea]

I agree with everything Sandwich says!