Poor review etiquette. Can anything be done?

[cranebump]

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

 

According to you, it's your content.  You posted earlier that some of the arcs you wrote were 1 starred as "revenge".  Yes, I read the portion of the conversation that you posted.  I don't know what else might have been said as I'm only seeing one side of the story.  There are jerks everywhere in the game, best to just ignore them and move on.

It's already been stated, but, to be clear: you've got me confused with the OP. And we obviously disagree about whether to hold this person accountable, so I won't belabor the point.

[Excraft]

My point still stands.  Making 1 star reviews reportable is a bad idea in my opinion.  Whomever the jerk was that 1 starred did nothing but hurt the OPs pride.   They were a jerk and a troll.  Best not to feed them.  If the content is good, it's pretty much given future reviews will eliminate that 1 star rating anyway. 

[Take One]

14 hours ago, Excraft said:

If the content is good, it's pretty much given future reviews will eliminate that 1 star rating anyway. 

 

A single 1-star review will nuke a 5-star rating and you will need four more 5-star ratings to get back to 4.5 stars which will show as 5 stars (I think, maybe you even need five 5-star ratings to make up for each 1-star, depending on how the results are rounded.) This isn't the live servers and getting less than 5 stars on your arc isn't as much of a death sentence as it used to be - rather, all our story arcs are still-born as long as the first X pages of the AE are filled up with farms. I'll just keep asking that the stars system is replaced with a "thumb up" or "like" system, so there is no way to leave a negative score, and only a way to leave a positive score. An arc's rank would then be determined by the number of likes/number of plays ratio.

[Excraft]

On 7/19/2021 at 2:20 AM, Take One said:

A single 1-star review will nuke a 5-star rating and you will need four more 5-star ratings to get back to 4.5 stars which will show as 5 stars (I think, maybe you even need five 5-star ratings to make up for each 1-star, depending on how the results are rounded.) This isn't the live servers and getting less than 5 stars on your arc isn't as much of a death sentence as it used to be - rather, all our story arcs are still-born as long as the first X pages of the AE are filled up with farms.

 

All that happens here is an author gets their pride bruised a bit.  Jerks and trolls aside, negative criticism isn't a bad thing. 

 

On 7/19/2021 at 2:20 AM, Take One said:

I'll just keep asking that the stars system is replaced with a "thumb up" or "like" system, so there is no way to leave a negative score, and only a way to leave a positive score. An arc's rank would then be determined by the number of likes/number of plays ratio.

 

A system that only allows positive feedback is completely useless in my opinion.  Why bother with any kind of rating?  Then again, this does sound like a match made in heaven for this server.  No one here seems to want to hear anything other than praise.

[Take One]

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

Jerks and trolls aside, negative criticism isn't a bad thing.

 

Criticism is one thing, ratings another.

 

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

No one here seems to want to hear anything other than praise.

 

I invite all critique of my arcs, which are easily found by following the instructions in my signature.

 

I have already explained why star ratings are bad, not just because a one-star rating skews the score of a perfect 5-star arc disproportionally but because nobody can agree on what the stars actually mean. This arbitrary and subjective madness is vastly inferior to what I suggested. Everyone can agree on what "recommended" means, unless there's some kind of language barrier.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Take One

[GastlyGibus]

7 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

All that happens here is an author gets their pride bruised a bit.  Jerks and trolls aside, negative criticism isn't a bad thing. 

 

Please go back and read my original post. This is not criticism we're talking about. Unless you're sincerely trying to make the argument that this player managed to fully play through and read three 4-5 mission long story arcs and write a review of each one in the span of sixty seconds, then we're not talking about real, genuine criticism.

 

Like most people, I fully welcome people to play my arcs and give me feedback. If you didn't like it, tell me why, and I'll see if it's worth fixing. That is not what happened here. Let me reiterate for you the sequence of events.

 

I play Random Man's story. I play through it all, send in a review at the end from AE, rate it and move on.

I suddenly get a message from Random Man, insinuating that I'm being pretentious and also that I'm an idiot for not liking his story.

Less than two minutes later, I get sent a nasty "review" on my story arc. I go and check my stories, and in that same less-than-two minutes timeframe, Random Man has rated all of my stories 1 star.

 

Criticism is one thing. Ratings are another. Random Man did not offer criticism on my stories. Random Man threw a temper tantrum and said "Oh, you didn't like my story? WELL, YOUR STORIES ARE STUPID! SO THERE!" and then rating-bombed my stories. Now they show up at 1 or 2 stars each. Now, if any other player looks at the rating, their first thought is likely to be "Wow, this story is rated 2 stars. It must be garbage," and they'll skip over it. 

 

I used to manage a small restaurant. You have no idea of how bad reviews and ratings can severely hurt your business and turn away potential patrons. I have long railed against terrible "rating" systems used by sites like Yelp, where people can freely rate anything 1 star without actually writing a critique of why they rated it that, without even needing proof that they actually went to my restaurant. Even if I get tons of 4 or 5 star ratings on Yelp, it greatly hurts the overall score when just one guy with no profile rates one star with nothing written except "this place sucks," if they even bother to write anything at all. 

 

I'm sorry, I can't fix "sucks," because you didn't actually tell me what the problem is. Now Yelp refuses to do anything about this abuse of the system (and in fact actually encourages it) and my ratings are now impacted by these folks, which then reflects poorly on my business. That is what happened here with AE. My overall rating is now significantly lowered because of one random tantrum-throwing child, with absolutely no proof or evidence that they even played the stories in question, and now everyone who sees the story won't see any of that, they'll just see two stars, and think "this story must be pretty bad," and look over it. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by GastlyGibus

[Excraft]

5 hours ago, Take One said:

 

Criticism is one thing, ratings another.

 

 

I invite all critique of my arcs, which are easily found by following the instructions in my signature.

 

I have already explained why star ratings are bad, not just because a one-star rating skews the score of a perfect 5-star arc disproportionally but because nobody can agree on what the stars actually mean. This arbitrary and subjective madness is vastly inferior to what I suggested. Everyone can agree on what "recommended" means, unless there's some kind of language barrier.

 

Criticism and rating go hand in hand.  Of course no one can agree on what a star means.  Taste is subjective. No offense meant to you as your intentions are probably in the right place, but you're asking to change a system to only skew ratings one way.  From the sound of it, you just want positive feedback.  That's skewing things just as much as those 1 star reviews are. 

[Excraft]

49 minutes ago, GastlyGibus said:

Please go back and read my original post. This is not criticism we're talking about. Unless you're sincerely trying to make the argument that this player managed to fully play through and read three 4-5 mission long story arcs and write a review of each one in the span of sixty seconds, then we're not talking about real, genuine criticism.

 

I think you may want to go back and read what I posted.  This isn't what I suggested at all.  Whomever that player is was a tool, but you didn't really lose out on anything.  People can still find your arc and still play it and still offer higher (or lower) ratings on it.  Star rating really has no value other than ego and pride.  You can advertise for others to try your arc and future positive ratings will negate that 1 star over time. 

[GastlyGibus]

8 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

Criticism and rating go hand in hand.  Of course no one can agree on what a star means.  Taste is subjective. No offense meant to you as your intentions are probably in the right place, but you're asking to change a system to only skew ratings one way.  From the sound of it, you just want positive feedback.  That's skewing things just as much as those 1 star reviews are. 

No, I don't just want positive feedback. I want feedback in general, which is not what I was given. If Random Man actually played my stories (which, again, I must reiterate that it is literally not possible for him to have played all of my stories in two minutes) and have me actual, real feedback, I'd be fine. 

 

This was originally just me asking if I could do anything about this. I reported it, for what it's worth, but now it's turned into a discussion on the overall effectiveness of the rating system, which I'm fine with. This issue has clearly demonstrated that the system is flawed and needs to be fixed.

 

I'm not asking for the entire system to be upended. I'm not asking for the rating system to be removed entirely. I'm asking for the system to be tweaked so that randoms who haven't played the stories don't have the option to just rating-bomb whatever they'd like with impunity. Or, as someone else mentioned, possibly add in some kind of completion ratio showing how many players actually completed the Arc in question and how many quit before the end. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by GastlyGibus

[Excraft]

On 7/24/2021 at 7:24 AM, GastlyGibus said:

No, I don't just want positive feedback. I want feedback in general, which is not what I was given. If Random Man actually played my stories (which, again, I must reiterate that it is literally not possible for him to have played all of my stories in two minutes) and have me actual, real feedback, I'd be fine. 

 

This was originally just me asking if I could do anything about this. I reported it, for what it's worth, but now it's turned into a discussion on the overall effectiveness of the rating system, which I'm fine with. This issue has clearly demonstrated that the system is flawed and needs to be fixed.

 

I'm not asking for the entire system to be upended. I'm not asking for the rating system to be removed entirely. I'm asking for the system to be tweaked so that randoms who haven't played the stories don't have the option to just rating-bomb whatever they'd like with impunity. Or, as someone else mentioned, possibly add in some kind of completion ratio showing how many players actually completed the Arc in question and how many quit before the end. 

 

My reply that you're quoting wasn't directed at you, but if you want to inject yourself into it that's fine.  I get it.  The player who 1 starred your arc was a tool, but you're pretty much throwing as much of a tantrum as they did.  People don't need to play through entire arcs to offer a rating.  As far as  them not playing through your entire arc, you only need 1 bite to know you don't like the food.  Sure it's possible the person was a jerk, then again maybe not.  Like I said before, you didn't suffer anything other than a bit of a bruised ego.  Others can still find your stories and play them.   

[cranebump]

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

 

My reply that you're quoting wasn't directed at you, but if you want to inject yourself into it that's fine.  I get it.  The player who 1 starred your arc was a tool, but you're pretty much throwing as much of a tantrum as they did.  People don't need to play through entire arcs to offer a rating.  As far as  them not playing through your entire arc, you only need 1 bite to know you don't like the food.  Sure it's possible the person was a jerk, then again maybe not.  Like I said before, you didn't suffer anything other than a bit of a bruised ego.  Others can still find your stories and play them.   

The whole "take a bite, the decide," statement doesn't hold water. You can put a rating on arc without even entering the mission. Just load it, abandon it, rate it. So you can "decide" without even sampling it, which is very (VERYVERYVERY) likely what the revenge rater did. 

 

Based on the evidence offered (the offender's own words), It's also pretty much beyond "possible" that the revenge rater is being a colossal jerk. Not sure why you're defending them, unless you happen to know who they are, and/or you know something the rest of us don't.

[Excraft]

10 hours ago, cranebump said:

The whole "take a bite, the decide," statement doesn't hold water. You can put a rating on arc without even entering the mission. Just load it, abandon it, rate it. So you can "decide" without even sampling it, which is very (VERYVERYVERY) likely what the revenge rater did. 

 

How do you know for certain that's what the person the OP mentioned did?  We don't know all the facts, just one side of the story here and we're only seeing part of the conversation. 

 

10 hours ago, cranebump said:

Based on the evidence offered (the offender's own words), It's also pretty much beyond "possible" that the revenge rater is being a colossal jerk. Not sure why you're defending them, unless you happen to know who they are, and/or you know something the rest of us don't.

 

I don't disagree if that's what the person did, then they're a jerk.  I've said that several times here,  I guess you missed that.  I'm not defending the person at all either.   All I've been saying that jerks are going to be jerks no matter what and that someone 1 starring an arc really doesn't mean much of anything.  Throwing a tantrum and wanting to revenge report people for 1 star reviews is a can of worms best left closed in my opinion.  And no, I don't know any of the people involved.