Poor review etiquette. Can anything be done?

[GastlyGibus]

So I apologize if this is improper to post, but I just have to share this because it really just rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I try to go into AE and review actual, non-farm missions. I appreciate AE for what it was intended to be, and I like to go in there and check things out when I'm bored of the regular content I've played a thousand times. Now, what I like to do is find missions that haven't been played or rated yet, so I can give some feedback. I'm not going to name names or list arc IDs, but I found one arc that was... pretty bad. Loads of typos, one mission only, clues with no text, and exactly one whole enemy on the map. Needless to say, it was poorly done. I gave it a rating and gave it a critique. I don't act rude in my reviews, I try to offer constructive criticism, so just know this isn't a result of me being rude to this person.

 

Cut to few hours later. I get a tell to my global. It's from the author of said arc. Here's how the conversation went. Names withheld to protect the guilty.

 

Now you can see that last message they sent was a "review" of an arc I wrote. I know for a fact that they didn't actually play it, because that "review" came no more than two minutes after their first message. This was clearly someone throwing a tantrum and giving a bad review in retaliation for my own.

 

Has this ever happened to anybody else? Can anything be done about it? I know ratings and stuff aren't really important, but it's a bit frustrating to have someone throw a temper tantrum and review-bomb your own stories just because you gave them an unfavorable review.

[cranebump]

Can anything be done? Nope. The author of that particular arc is thinned-skin and immature. Of course, you point out typos. Then, if you're the author, you fix them. It's free proofreading, for goodness sake. And if there are a ton of them, it's a huge thing, because it detracts from the enjoyment of the story (not to mention, it makes the author look careless and/or incompetent). Bottom line: this person does not want to improve. They just want to be patted on the back. 

 

(And I still don't get the "moral compass" comment).

 

P.S. You SURE you don't want to share the Arc ID? 🙂

[GastlyGibus]

Much as I would like to, it would appear they took it down shortly after these messages, as I can no longer find it, even under the "completed" section of the search bar.

Also, I can now confirm that they went through all of my arcs and rated them all 1 star. It's honestly hilarious. Shame nothing can be done about it, though. I suppose there's always the option of unpublishing then republishing, but then you'd wipe all of your ratings. Oh well.

[cranebump]

I'd report the player. Revenge rating is abuse. You have their original reaction, and then their subsequent ratings. Feels like a conduct violation of some kind.

[Coyotedancer]

Hmm.

 

I know you want validation, GG. You want us all to read your story, nod and agree on how much of an asshole that writer was. (And yes, they definitely could have handled things better-) But I can also see why they got salty with you. 

 

They didn't ask you to critique their choices. They didn't put out a call for people to proof their arc. They didn't ask you to challenge their mistakes. They didn't solicit your opinion. You just jumped right in there in AE Critic and Copy Editor-mode, all on your own and without an invitation, and you expected them to be grateful for having been given your attention.

 

That's like walking into a minefield and expecting not to lose a foot.  If you're offering corrections and critique when it hasn't been requested you're courting poor reactions.

 

ETA: I will agree with reporting them for the one-star bombing, though. That's not a Good Thing no matter how ticked they are about the unwanted critique you gave them. 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Coyotedancer

[GastlyGibus]

12 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

They didn't ask you to critique their choices. They didn't put out a call for people to proof their arc. They didn't ask you to challenge their mistakes. They didn't solicit your opinion. You just jumped right in there in AE Critic and Copy Editor-mode, all on your own and without an invitation, and you expected them to be grateful for having been given your attention.

 

You post a story on a public forum, a public forum that specifically includes a review system for the express purpose of letting players offer feedback. Furthermore they had their arc tagged as "looking for feedback," so, yes, I believe they were asking for critique. Maybe not me specifically, but in general.

 

If you don't want people to criticize your work, you shouldn't be putting it up on a public system and tagging it as "looking for feedback." You cannot seriously fault me for using the system as it was intended. You put arcs up for the public to view. It asks every player who plays the mission to offer feedback and a rating. I did just that. If you didn't want people to critique it, then you either
A) shouldn't post it at all, or
B) put in the description that it's just for your own personal use.

Neither of those happened. "Looking for feedback." I gave them feedback. No, I do not expect them to be grateful for it. I do expect them to be more mature about handling criticism. Again, if you didn't want people to play it, you shouldn't post it, or you should make it clear it's just for you/your friend(s).

Edited July 7, 2021 by GastlyGibus

[Coyotedancer]

1 minute ago, GastlyGibus said:

 

You post a story on a public forum, a public forum that specifically includes a review system for the express purpose of letting players offer feedback. Furthermore they had their arc tagged as "looking for feedback," so, yes, I believe they were asking for critique. Maybe not me specifically, but in general.

 

If you don't want people to criticize your work, you shouldn't be putting it up on a public system and tagging it as "looking for feedback." You cannot seriously fault me for using the system as it was intended. You put arcs up for the public to view. It asks every player who plays the mission to offer feedback and a rating. I did just that. If you didn't want people to critique it, then you either
A) shouldn't post it at all, or
B) put in the description that it's just for your own personal use.

Neither of those happened. "Looking for feedback." I gave them feedback. 

 

You're making a lot of assumptions there. People post test arcs and "just f-ing around with interface to learn how it works" missions all the time with no intention for them to be played by anyone else, much less reviewed by a self-appointed content critic. (I watched my nephew do it a few weekends ago. He didn't even know how to name his contact. I suspect that little test mission is still live, just as one example.) 

 

I would also be willing to bet, based on their reaction, that they had no clue the arc was tagged with anything about wanting feedback. They obviously didn't.

 

I'm faulting you for thinking that your opinion ought to have mattered to this person, and that as a result you have a right to be offended when it didn't.

[GastlyGibus]

7 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

You're making a lot of assumptions there. People post test arcs and "just f-ing around with interface to learn how it works" missions all the time with no intention for them to be played by anyone else, much less reviewed by a self-appointed content critic. (I watched my nephew do it a few weekends ago. He didn't even know how to name his contact. I suspect that little test mission is still live, just as one example.) 

 

I would also be willing to bet, based on their reaction, that they had no clue the arc was tagged with anything about wanting feedback. They obviously didn't.

 

I'm faulting you for thinking that your opinion ought to have mattered to this person, and that as a result you have a right to be offended when it didn't.

 

My opinion apparently did matter, enough for them to revenge-rate all of my stories because they were upset. You're making several assumptions here yourself. If they really were "just f-ing around with the interface" then my feedback shouldn't have mattered at all to them. "It's just a test arc, of course it's going to be bad."

Based on their reaction, they obviously were looking for feedback.

 

"You srsly look for TYPOS? what is wrong with you? and if it does not make sense you.. maybe you are just having completly broken moral compass."

Not sure how you can look at this response and assume they had no clue what they were doing, or that they were just testing the system.

Edited July 7, 2021 by GastlyGibus

[Coyotedancer]

26 minutes ago, GastlyGibus said:

 

My opinion apparently did matter, enough for them to revenge-rate all of my stories because they were upset. You're making several assumptions here yourself. If they really were "just f-ing around with the interface" then my feedback shouldn't have mattered at all to them. "It's just a test arc, of course it's going to be bad."

Based on their reaction, they obviously were looking for feedback.

 

"You srsly look for TYPOS? what is wrong with you? and if it does not make sense you.. maybe you are just having completly broken moral compass."

Not sure how you can look at this response and assume they had no clue what they were doing, or that they were just testing the system.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about it, I guess... But honestly, I really do think you were courting disaster there. Unrequested critiques just aren't always going to go over well. This writer's response wasn't great, but it's also not surprising.  

[cranebump]

2 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about it, I guess... But honestly, I really do think you were courting disaster there. Unrequested critiques just aren't always going to go over well. This writer's response wasn't great, but it's also not surprising.  

The system has a star rating and a comments section. Anyone who posts an SFMA arc should expect to hear some sort of commentary (especially if they label it as “looking for feedback”). If it wasn’t a serious attempt at story, the author should’ve responded as such, then changed their arc description to reflect that. Instead, this childish person questioned the reviewer’s “moral compass” then proceeded to bomb them with poison pill ratings and reviews.  The writer’s response is therefore pretty surprising, given that context. You indicate here that GG is somehow at fault for offering commentary. But this seems to conveniently overlook the fact that, by postIng their work without a clear disclaimer, the writer is automatically subject to the rating system. Regardless, the author’s subsequent actions are just plain juvenile douche baggery, and should be dealt with in some way.

Edited July 8, 2021 by cranebump

[Kyksie]

You peeps have pretty much covered the bases already. OP, you're not 'reviewing' arcs so much as 'picking arcs at random and telling the author what you think', and that's not going to end well on the average. One might say that anyone putting an arc up is asking for a review, but in practice that's not how it works.

 

 

 

 

[cranebump]

15 minutes ago, Kyksie said:

You peeps have pretty much covered the bases already. OP, you're not 'reviewing' arcs so much as 'picking arcs at random and telling the author what you think', and that's not going to end well on the average. One might say that anyone putting an arc up is asking for a review, but in practice that's not how it works

 

 

Aren’t we splitting  hairs here?  I mean, I’m basically doing the same thing as the OP when I post a review (and what is the Dojo about, if not this same process?) i would also argue that a private critique might be preferable to a public review, especially if there are major issues. If it’s private, then at least my errors are not being publicly advertised. 

[GastlyGibus]

8 hours ago, Kyksie said:

OP, you're not 'reviewing' arcs so much as 'picking arcs at random and telling the author what you think'

 

You have literally described a review.

 

Regardless, anybody's opinion on how exactly the system ought to be used is irrelevant to this discussion. I explained what happened for context. The point is that a player, in "revenge" for me saying unflattering things in private about their story, decided to abuse the system and 1-star all of my arcs without actually playing or even reading them. It makes no difference if I should or should not have played their arc and offered a comment (which itself is a ridiculous argument to make anyway), what matters is the response.

 

8 hours ago, Kyksie said:

One might say that anyone putting an arc up is asking for a review, but in practice that's not how it works.

 

One would also be correct in saying that. Regardless of your actual intentions for the arc, you're posting it on a public system, one which is accessible to everyone playing the game. Anybody can view and play your arc, and once again, the system itself asks you at the end to rate and comment on it. I am literally using the system exactly as it was designed. If you post an arc up in the Mission Architect system, whether you like it or not, someone is going to play it. You are implicitly asking for people to rate and comment on it by submitting it to the public. You are giving people permission to do so by using the system. If you aren't prepared for people to critique your submission... don't submit.

Edited July 8, 2021 by GastlyGibus

[America's Angel]

@GastlyGibus I don't think you did anything wrong and I don't think you have a bad moral compass.

 

I just logged in my three accounts and 5-starred your two arcs on all three of them. That managed to push one of them back up to 3 stars.

 

I'd suggest filing a petition with a GM. 1-star revenge-reviews seem like harassment IMO.

[GastlyGibus]

6 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

@GastlyGibus I don't think you did anything wrong and I don't think you have a bad moral compass.

 

I just logged in my three accounts and 5-starred your two arcs on all three of them. That managed to push one of them back up to 3 stars.

 

I'd suggest filing a petition with a GM. 1-star revenge-reviews seem like harassment IMO.

 

I'm pretty sure the "bad moral compass" comment was in regards to the arc itself. It was classified as "heroic" and the description of the story was something along the lines of "discover what it means to be a hero..." and I could definitely see what they were attempting to do, but it was poorly executed. You walk into an empty building, click some boxes (all of which had no text by the way so you don't even know why you're clicking them.) Then suddenly this kid NPC appears, says something about saving him, and then you fight yourself (???) and boom, the mission is over. That's apparently what it means to be a hero. I said in my comment to him that it didn't make sense because there was no explanation, and somehow he took that to mean I didn't understand heroism and my moral compass was broken.

You didn't have to upvote my arcs. I appreciate it, but I'm not here for validation. I'm mainly here giving context to a situation and asking if this is a reportable offense or if anything can be done, since it was clearly someone revenge-voting my stories because they were upset with me.

Edited July 8, 2021 by GastlyGibus

[America's Angel]

4 minutes ago, GastlyGibus said:

 

I'm pretty sure the "bad moral compass" comment was in regards to the arc itself. It was classified as "heroic" and the description of the story was something along the lines of "discover what it means to be a hero..." and I could definitely see what they were attempting to do, but it was poorly executed. You walk into an empty building, click some boxes (all of which had no text by the way so you don't even know why you're clicking them.) Then suddenly this kid NPC appears, says something about saving him, and then you fight yourself (???) and boom, the mission is over. That's apparently what it means to be a hero. I said in my comment to him that it didn't make sense because there was no explanation, and somehow he took that to mean I didn't understand heroism and my moral compass was broken.

You didn't have to upvote my arcs. I appreciate it, but I'm not here for validation. I'm mainly here giving context to a situation and asking if this is a reportable offense or if anything can be done, since it was clearly someone revenge-voting my stories because they were upset with me.

 

It seems reportable. But the best person to ask is the GMs tbh.

[Kyksie]

1 hour ago, America's Angel said:

I just logged in my three accounts and 5-starred your two arcs on all three of them. That managed to push one of them back up to 3 stars.

 

IMHO, the fact that you can 1-star or 5-star an arc without playing it should tell us that the star rating system is doodoo.

[Kyksie]

BTW you can also reset your ratings by unpublishing and republishing.

[Excraft]

On 7/7/2021 at 6:36 PM, cranebump said:

I'd report the player. Revenge rating is abuse. You have their original reaction, and then their subsequent ratings. Feels like a conduct violation of some kind.

 

How does anyone know the 1 star reviews aren't legit?   Reporting this a slippery slope if you ask me.  People have differing tastes.

[cranebump]

40 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

How does anyone know the 1 star reviews aren't legit?   Reporting this a slippery slope if you ask me.  People have differing tastes.

The personal messages clearly show the person’s Intent. And regardless of taste, there’s no excuse for being a douche bag, which is how that person behaved. I’m not sure what slippery slope we’d be on, unless it’s a slide into demanding a modicum of manners.

[Excraft]

15 hours ago, cranebump said:

The personal messages clearly show the person’s Intent. And regardless of taste, there’s no excuse for being a douche bag, which is how that person behaved. I’m not sure what slippery slope we’d be on, unless it’s a slide into demanding a modicum of manners.

 

Wanting to have 1 star reviews be reportable is not a good idea in my opinion.   Maybe they really didn't like any of your content.  It does happen.

[cranebump]

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

 

Wanting to have 1 star reviews be reportable is not a good idea in my opinion.   Maybe they really didn't like any of your content.  It does happen.

Okay, a) it’s not my personal content, and b) did you read the exchanges reported here by the OP? It’s not the reviews. It’s the fact that the douche bag we’re talking about rated several arcs 1-star as a revenge move because he couldn’t handle a critique. It’s the behavior that’s the issue, not the reviews. And bad behavior is reportable.

[Triumphant]

On 7/7/2021 at 6:52 PM, Coyotedancer said:

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about it, I guess... But honestly, I really do think you were courting disaster there. Unrequested critiques just aren't always going to go over well. This writer's response wasn't great, but it's also not surprising.  

Yeah, I can't agree with you here, sorry.  When you run an AE arc, a prompt comes up with a comment box and a star system rating.  If you submit an AE mish for public consumption, you are tacitly agreeing to have that mission critiqued.

 

Honestly, if you can't handle honest, constructive (CONSTRUCTIVE, being the key word here) criticism, don't put yourself out there.  Constructive criticism does not mean complimentary, by the way.  Sometimes it is the opposite, even if phrased in a diplomatic way.

[Excraft]

7 hours ago, cranebump said:

Okay, a) it’s not my personal content, and b) did you read the exchanges reported here by the OP? It’s not the reviews. It’s the fact that the douche bag we’re talking about rated several arcs 1-star as a revenge move because he couldn’t handle a critique. It’s the behavior that’s the issue, not the reviews. And bad behavior is reportable.

 

According to you, it's your content.  You posted earlier that some of the arcs you wrote were 1 starred as "revenge".  Yes, I read the portion of the conversation that you posted.  I don't know what else might have been said as I'm only seeing one side of the story.  There are jerks everywhere in the game, best to just ignore them and move on.

[Bionic_Flea]

The key to proper editing and critiquing is paying attention to who is saying what and why they are saying it.  I think you need to try again, Excraft, you have confused two different people and their motivations.

 

As to the OP - I'm sorry this happened to you and agree that you should report it with the same chat logs to the powers that be.  While I also agree that ordinarily reviews are not and should not be subject to discipline, an exception can be made if it can be shown the review was not a difference of opinion but was a personal act of revenge.