What’s with the lack of love for Fiery Melee?

[aethereal]

I think it would be reasonable for the critting classes to get the crits on fire melee and savage melee to include their bleed damage in the crit.  Brutes get to enjoy fury bonuses on the bleeds, after all.

 

(I guess the counterargument is that it's nice to have sets that push you towards particular ATs)

[Haijinx]

On 1/11/2022 at 11:42 PM, Troo said:

 

is this good or bad?

 

Bad in this case. 

[ihatethewind]

Apropos of nothing, I always thought fire melee should get burn, and fire armor should get something different.

[Murcielago]

On 1/6/2022 at 6:32 PM, leeowensoas said:

I feel like I frequently see FM brought up as a set that needs adjustment, mostly because it’s really old. Obviously mechanically it lacks any primary mitigation in exchange for more damage, so sets that out damage it and have mitigation are arguably better in most ways, but I feel like I see people talk about fiery melee as “bad” and I just don’t really feel it. Maybe it’s cause I pair it with Shield, which is godly, but I feel like my FM/SD scrap is just as solid as my WM/SD Scrap, and people are super into WM these days? Is there something I’m not seeing that explains this reputation/perception?

The real reason is that it's only strong. It needs to be pretty as well. 

[Hopeling]

On 1/7/2022 at 12:42 PM, Vanden said:

If you assume Activation Time is 0, it should be extremely simple. Just divide the damage scale of every attack by its recharge time and sum that figure up with every attack in the set. The only tricky part would be figuring out how to factor AoE size into that.

 

If nothing else it would give us a figure to shoot for in a revamp.

The original devs already did that. Most attack powers follow the design formulas, and by those formulas Fire really does get more damage than most sets, since its DoT damage is "free" on top of what the formula would give. The problem is, ignoring activation time is objectively the wrong way to design powers, since in practice animation time is extremely important, and even the original devs eventually recognized that ignoring it was a mistake.

 

Plus, FM isn't the only set around that gets to "cheat" on the design formulas, and there are also structural issues with it like the fact that it has only one decent (not even great, just decent) AoE attack in a game where almost all fights are multi-target, and that DoT damage is worse than the same amount of instant damage. So even if we're not worried about DPA and what high-end attack chains look like, it's still 'only' upper-middle of the pack for actually killing things, and has no debuffs or control to back that up. Relatedly, I like /FM better on tankers than FM/ on scrappers, precisely because it gets a second AoE attack in Combustion.

 

I wouldn't say FM/ is anywhere near a bad set; it's not even the worst Scrapper primary. It's just kind of vanilla, clearing spawns at average-ish speed without any particular strengths or exciting things to call its own.

[IronJuke]

Fiery Melee has always been pretty bad since the inception of the game.  Mainly because it has very little AOE. 

 

Fire Inv Tanks were a big thing back then for PL'ing however, because even the little AoE they had was better than no AoE at all.