Bio/WP DDR

[Rudra]

On 2/13/2022 at 9:20 AM, Uun said:

I don't think WP needs more DDR. The defense built into the set is pretty minimal (on a tank it's 3% S/L, 13% F/C/E/N, 10% Psi), yet it gets 22% DDR (tank). 

 

I'd like to see WP get endurance/recovery debuff resistance. It makes no sense that the set has Quick Recovery but no resistance to end drain and recovery debuffs. Invulnerability has no endurance/recovery powers at all yet it has endurance/recovery debuff resistance. I'd also like to see WP get more -regen resistance. 

This. Of all the holes they could have put in WP, they gave it no resist to END drain and REC drain. The two defenses I most associate with being able to power through a situation, having the willpower to carry on. In the game's mechanics, is the ability to actually do anything. And yet WP has no such ability. A sapper sneezed 3 halls over? Oh no! All my toggles shut down and I can't act because I have no END! (Ridiculous exaggeration intended for both comedic visual and gross over-statement of problem.) I'm far less concerned with WP getting DDR than the ability to resist having their END pool completely wiped out by a lone minion.

 

As for Bio? I never played it. I hate the visuals. They don't work for my characters, so I have no comment on it.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to separate two thoughts into two separate sentences.

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

So Bio is getting unloved just because of one stance, Offensive which deserves nothing as you say. But Defensive stance does need a little something whether it is Regen DR or DDR.

 

Nah. I can't rationalize any buff for Bio under any circumstances. Defensive on a tank adds 9% resist to SLT, 1.13% to FCEN and .9% to P. On the defense side it adds 8.25% to SL, 7.3 to FCE, 2.8 to N and 4.25 to P. Oh... and 170 HP. I'd say that's enough.

[Gobbledigook]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

As for Bio? I never played it. I hate the visuals. They don't work for my characters, so I have no comment on it.

You can minimize them .

 

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Nah. I can't rationalize any buff for Bio under any circumstances. Defensive on a tank adds 9% resist to SLT, 1.13% to FCEN and .9% to P. On the defense side it adds 8.25% to SL, 7.3 to FCE, 2.8 to N and 4.25 to P. Oh... and 170 HP. I'd say that's enough.

Adding a small Regen DR or DDR is barely a buff more a QoL. 9% on capped doesn't add anything and they are easy to cap. It adds some defence depending on number of mobs that isn't worth much when it is easily reduced to zero and a small max health helping regen that can also easily be reduced to zero. Adding a little DR in Defensive only lets the defences stay up maybe a couple seconds longer.

 

At times the only thing keeping them alive is the absorb shield. S/L T does have resistance but the others resistances are much weaker. Exotic damage and debuffs are not uncommon, I don't see any of the other sets have their survival buffs debuffed so much without any sort of resistance.

 

Offensive Bio is good but it should not be all about that stance. I would even be in Favour of having a timer when switching stances so you can't switch at will.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Marbing]

Bio is already a super tough set as it is. My SJ/Bio stalker regularly solos +4/x8, including against enemies that have massive defense debuffs (like banished pantheon). Just find the debuffers and take them out first. Bio has so much helping it stay alive outside of its defense.

Also, there is an incarnate for that.

[Razor Cure]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:40 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Correct. RDR is a function of Damage Resistance. Why the OG devs didn't make DDR a function of Defense is beyond

I don't know..it doesnt seem the same to me.

A Def based set with 45% def gets (whatever value im making up) 50% DDR. SO if they get hit with an attacking doing -50% def..then only take a -25% hit. So down to 20% def.

A Res Based set with 50% res gets hit with a -30%res attack (Nullifer grenades being the most common)..and their res going right down to -20%. AT least, that is how -res USED to work (I havent tested it recently).

Just stating that RDR is a function of Damage Resists makes no sense, especially when there is no such thing (in combat atts) as Resistance Debuff Resists. -Def, regen, rech and rec, sure..but not Resist. Stating a resist based set 'resists' -res, is like saying a def set should be 'resisting' -def, JUST because it has def in the first place. Which may have been teh case way back before DDR came about, but not now. In fact, some sets (like invul) have been buffed to include more DDR, because they got debuffed to easy.

But according to RDR being a function of Resist (that is, you get it magically just by having resists), then why even have DDR?

Using my example with numbers above, the resist set gets hit by a larger total penalty overall..because there is no such thing as RDR. Sure, having the base res of 50% makes you more survivable than a squishy with 0%, being hit with -30, but its still a much more noticeable drop than the Def based toon getting hit with a bigger debuff in the first place, and ending up with the same overall % stat.

 

 

 

 

 

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

I don't know..it doesnt seem the same to me.

A Def based set with 45% def gets (whatever value im making up) 50% DDR. SO if they get hit with an attacking doing -50% def..then only take a -25% hit. So down to 20% def.

A Res Based set with 50% res gets hit with a -30%res attack (Nullifer grenades being the most common)..and their res going right down to -20%. AT least, that is how -res USED to work (I havent tested it recently).

Just stating that RDR is a function of Damage Resists makes no sense, especially when there is no such thing (in combat atts) as Resistance Debuff Resists. -Def, regen, rech and rec, sure..but not Resist. Stating a resist based set 'resists' -res, is like saying a def set should be 'resisting' -def, JUST because it has def in the first place. Which may have been teh case way back before DDR came about, but not now. In fact, some sets (like invul) have been buffed to include more DDR, because they got debuffed to easy.

But according to RDR being a function of Resist (that is, you get it magically just by having resists), then why even have DDR?

Using my example with numbers above, the resist set gets hit by a larger total penalty overall..because there is no such thing as RDR. Sure, having the base res of 50% makes you more survivable than a squishy with 0%, being hit with -30, but its still a much more noticeable drop than the Def based toon getting hit with a bigger debuff in the first place, and ending up with the same overall % stat.

This is completely wrong and its never been how -res used to work. If a set with 50% resistance to a damage type gets hit with a -30% resistance debuff, its resistance goes to 35% (50% of the debuff is resisted and 50% is applied). If a set with 80% resistance to a damage type gets hit with a -30% resistance debuff, its resistance goes to 74% (80% of the debuff is resisted and 20% is applied).

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Resistance_(Mechanics)#Resistance_to_Resistance_Debuffs