Bio/WP DDR

[Gobbledigook]

I think Willpower should get a little more DDR than it has. Maybe around 35-40% or so.

 

Bio should get some DDR added only when it is in defensive stance around 30% or so. Add some heal debuff resistance to Bio in Defensive mode also.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[arcane]

Dunno man, I think your proposal is modest and reasonable, but if we lean any further into “DDR mandatory” thinking, we probably have to give every non-defense set some base DDR like 15-20% at that point.

[Gobbledigook]

45 minutes ago, arcane said:

Dunno man, I think your proposal is modest and reasonable, but if we lean any further into “DDR mandatory” thinking, we probably have to give every non-defense set some base DDR like 15-20% at that point.

But they are a defence hybrid set. I know they have heals and some resists etc but then so does invulnerability/stone. Invuln has better defence and resists and has a heal/max health and better DDR. I just think WP certainly could do with a little more help. 

 

The new stone armor is pretty impressive but WP isn't and i think defensive stance Bio needs a little more, as it isn't that much of a boost using it not for the damage loss anyway. WP is behind most of the other sets. There are so many sets that are just so much better than WP in survival and damage/utility.

 

Resist sets shouldn't get DDR but they should maybe have some max health added here and there.

 

 

 

 

[arcane]

6 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

But they are a defence hybrid set. I know they have heals and some resists etc but then so does invulnerability/stone. Invuln has better defence and resists and has a heal/max health and better DDR. I just think WP certainly could do with a little more help. 

 

The new stone armor is pretty impressive but WP isn't and i think defensive stance Bio needs a little more, as it isn't that much of a boost using it not for the damage loss anyway. WP is behind most of the other sets. There are so many sets that are just so much better than WP in survival and damage/utility.

 

Resist sets shouldn't get DDR but they should maybe have some max health added here and there.

 

 

 

 

Well, inevitably everyone relies on a mix of resistance and defense in the endgame, and I just don’t see WP or especially Bio “hurting” in a way that Dark, Electric, Rad, or Regen are not, so, *shrug*, what the hey, my $0.02.

 

I agree with adding it to Bio Defensive either way just because who the heck wants to lose offense anyway. I don’t see why WP is “not impressive” in particular though.

Edited February 9, 2022 by arcane

[Gobbledigook]

54 minutes ago, arcane said:

Well, inevitably everyone relies on a mix of resistance and defense in the endgame, and I just don’t see WP or especially Bio “hurting” in a way that Dark, Electric, Rad, or Regen are not, so, *shrug*, what the hey, my $0.02.

 

I agree with adding it to Bio Defensive either way just because who the heck wants to lose offense anyway. I don’t see why WP is “not impressive” in particular though.

Well i would say 90% nigh unbreakable resists and a full heal every 10 seconds or so +regen on top and extra utility in CC is far more than the small resists/breakable defence and regen that WP offers. That full heal is better than the regen WP offers and only needs 2 mobs.

I am not asking for a big change just about 15% to the DDR  so that the defences stand up a little longer as it is a big part of WPs survival.

[Gobbledigook]

Well if @Brutal Justice is against it, it must be a good idea lol. And i even defended him on his very popular Defence post 😛

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[A Cat]

My experience with Bio is that it is good enough in other aspects that it can stand to have a glaring weakness like lack of DDR. Defensive is very very rarely used afaik, so I guess it may not harm things to add it to that? I have a feeling that it will not be worth switching off of offensive still and effectively make no difference though. I'd be ok with it on WP. WP isn't bad by any means IMO, but it doesn't come with the goodies that Bio has. 

[Brutal Justice]

1 hour ago, Gobbledegook said:

Well if @Brutal Justice is against it, it must be a good idea lol. And i even defended him on his very popular Defence post 😛

 

 

I’m most likely going to be against anything that pushes defense even further to the front of the line.

 

With the abundance of defense available for builds and the level of performance of such defense,  I believe it reduces build variety and power set diversity.  

 

Resistance resists -resistance.  

Defense defends -defense.  

[Gobbledigook]

31 minutes ago, Brutal Justice said:

I’m most likely going to be against anything that pushes defense even further to the front of the line.

 

With the abundance of defense available for builds and the level of performance of such defense,  I believe it reduces build variety and power set diversity.  

 

Resistance resists -resistance.  

Defense defends -defense.  

Ok, it wasn't a big buff. But i think the DDR of shield should be reduced also.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Bill Z Bubba]

22 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Ok, it wasn't a big buff. But i think the DDR of shield should be reduced also.

 

Easiest fix there would be to stop if from self-stacking with AD.

[DreadShinobi]

On 2/9/2022 at 8:07 AM, arcane said:

Dunno man, I think your proposal is modest and reasonable, but if we lean any further into “DDR mandatory” thinking, we probably have to give every non-defense set some base DDR like 15-20% at that point.

 

This is a slippery slope.

[Bill Z Bubba]

SR should be the only set with capped or even near capped DDR.

 

All sets with resistance automatically resist resistance debuffs. They get nothing.

 

Shield has extra damage, higher HP and solid static damres. DDR stacking should be blocked from AD.

 

Bio has two absorption shields and a pbaoe heal on top of the best overall +damage from a secondary. It deserves nothing and probably should be nerfed.

 

WP... I could actually argue for a bit more of something but only if I ignore the fact that it has a non-worthless T9.

 

Regen should have the highest regen/recharge debuff resistance in the game.

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

SR should be the only set with capped or even near capped DDR.

 

All sets with resistance automatically resist resistance debuffs. They get nothing.

 

Shield has extra damage, higher HP and solid static damres. DDR stacking should be blocked from AD.

 

Bio has two absorption shields and a pbaoe heal on top of the best overall +damage from a secondary. It deserves nothing and probably should be nerfed.

 

WP... I could actually argue for a bit more of something but only if I ignore the fact that it has a non-worthless T9.

 

Regen should have the highest regen/recharge debuff resistance in the game.

 

Maining EM/BIO Scrapper currently.  Wish I liked it for my namesake, as the set's a lot of fun.  Both /BIO and /STONE (Scrapper version) in fact, but overpowered is not what I feel for /BIO.  I do feel awesome though 🙂  It's like just enough to be awesome without being godmode, which I've found with other sets.

[Gobbledigook]

5 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

SR should be the only set with capped or even near capped DDR.

 

All sets with resistance automatically resist resistance debuffs. They get nothing.

 

Shield has extra damage, higher HP and solid static damres. DDR stacking should be blocked from AD.

 

Bio has two absorption shields and a pbaoe heal on top of the best overall +damage from a secondary. It deserves nothing and probably should be nerfed.

 

WP... I could actually argue for a bit more of something but only if I ignore the fact that it has a non-worthless T9.

 

Regen should have the highest regen/recharge debuff resistance in the game.

Yes. i only mentioned it for Bio in defensive only to make defensive a bit more worth while. The second absorb shield is on a long cooldown and a T9 which other sets get also.

 

Bio and WP do have defences and it is a big part of their survival but i feel it is a little too easily stripped considering that heal debuffs are thrown out also fairly often also, which they also should be resistant to a little more. Either some more DDR or some Regen DR

 

Yes Regen should be the SR in regen debuff resistance.

[arcane]

9 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

All sets with resistance automatically resist resistance debuffs. They get nothing.

All of your points are solid (I think I agree with all of your proposals), and I’m not advocating for anything here; just asking questions:

 

If my understanding is correct, you get resistance debuff resistance (“RDR”) from just having more damage resistance, is that about right? If so, defense sets get to resist a small amount of that debuff from Tough and other stuff. If that is the case, how does your argument here still work? If defense sets are allowed to achieve a small amount of RDR, why is it adequate to say resistance sets don’t deserve a small amount of DDR because they get that RDR already? If SR can access RDR to go with Tough, why couldn’t Electric access a small amount of DDR to go with Weave?

 

Again, I’m not advocating for anything and I suspect just about every set is strong enough as is and we don’t need the power creep. I’m purely playing devil’s advocate for a moment because your particular quoted argument struck me as fishy.

Edited February 12, 2022 by arcane

[Bill Z Bubba]

15 minutes ago, arcane said:

If my understanding is correct, you get resistance debuff resistance (“RDR”) from just having more damage resistance, is that about right? If so, defense sets get to resist a small amount of that debuff from Tough and other stuff. If that is the case, how does your argument here still work? If defense sets are allowed to achieve a small amount of RDR, why is it adequate to say resistance sets don’t deserve a small amount of DDR because they get that RDR already? If SR can access RDR to go with Tough, why couldn’t Electric access a small amount of DDR to go with Weave?

 

Correct. RDR is a function of Damage Resistance. Why the OG devs didn't make DDR a function of Defense is beyond me.

 

But the rub is that it doesn't matter how much DDR you have, it caps at 95% so 5% of all Defense Debuffs do get through. This is unlike RDR which doesn't cap. That Invul tank may cap at 90% SL Resist but if it is actually over the cap to 100%, then it actually has 100% RDR. NO resistance debuffs can leak through.

 

On top of that, resists function at full strength all the time. Defense, on the other hand, no matter how much you have, you're still left with at the very least a 5% chance of getting hit, and if facing a +4 AV, they'll have a much higher minimum chance to hit you.

 

In other words, resist based sets are already in a more stable situation than defense based sets and have access to vastly more powers that grant defense than defense based sets have access to resistance.

[InvaderStych]

Ask yourselves, does /Bio really need to be buffed?

 

9 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

It deserves nothing and probably should be nerfed.

 

This is the most correct answer.

[Haijinx]

On 2/12/2022 at 12:56 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

SR should be the only set with capped or even near capped DDR.

 

All sets with resistance automatically resist resistance debuffs. They get nothing.

 

Shield has extra damage, higher HP and solid static damres. DDR stacking should be blocked from AD.

 

Bio has two absorption shields and a pbaoe heal on top of the best overall +damage from a secondary. It deserves nothing and probably should be nerfed.

 

WP... I could actually argue for a bit more of something but only if I ignore the fact that it has a non-worthless T9.

 

Regen should BE NERFED! (changed here -kthksbai)

 

Fixed this for you.

[Bill Z Bubba]

21 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Fixed this for you.

 

They're the same sentence. Regen was nerfed so bad it's in negative values now so any nerf or buff will be a buff.

[Uun]

I don't think WP needs more DDR. The defense built into the set is pretty minimal (on a tank it's 3% S/L, 13% F/C/E/N, 10% Psi), yet it gets 22% DDR (tank). 

 

I'd like to see WP get endurance/recovery debuff resistance. It makes no sense that the set has Quick Recovery but no resistance to end drain and recovery debuffs. Invulnerability has no endurance/recovery powers at all yet it has endurance/recovery debuff resistance. I'd also like to see WP get more -regen resistance. 

[BrandX]

I have to say, I do feel Defensive Mode on BIO doesn't seem to add much more survival compared to Offensive Mode (which I don't feel should get a -Defense just because it's offensive mode...why a penalty for what is basically the sets gimmick).

 

Maybe the DDR in Defensive Mode would make it feel more useful.

[Haijinx]

On 2/12/2022 at 10:40 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Correct. RDR is a function of Damage Resistance. Why the OG devs didn't make DDR a function of Defense is beyond me.

 

 

In a way it sort of is.

 

If they miss you, you don't get debuffed. 

[arcane]

26 minutes ago, BrandX said:

I have to say, I do feel Defensive Mode on BIO doesn't seem to add much more survival compared to Offensive Mode (which I don't feel should get a -Defense just because it's offensive mode...why a penalty for what is basically the sets gimmick).

 

Maybe the DDR in Defensive Mode would make it feel more useful.

Yeah I would barely call it power creep to give Defensive Mode 20% DDR because I don’t sincerely believe that will make the best players turn it on anyway. So I find that specific proposal kinda harmless.

Edited February 13, 2022 by arcane

[Gobbledigook]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:58 PM, InvaderStych said:

Ask yourselves, does /Bio really need to be buffed?

 

 

This is the most correct answer.

I think you are referring to offensive Bio really. Defensive Bio is not the same. You give up a lot for defensive stance. A small amount of DDR added to Defensive Only is not really going to make defensive Bio OP. I just think it would be a nice bonus for defensive.

 

The set is heavily prone to debuffs and i don't think Offensive stance Bio justifies that. Rad has an absorb and an AoE heal and very good resists and +damage and added nuke. Rad also has Regen DR but it isn't really a heal set it's a resist set yet Bio doesn't have that either.

 

So Bio is getting unloved just because of one stance, Offensive which deserves nothing as you say. But Defensive stance does need a little something whether it is Regen DR or DDR.

 

Perhaps it would be better to add some Regen Dr to WP/Defensive Bio rather than DDR as it would be more fitting.

 

When asked which are the Strongest or most survivable sets i don't think WP features at the top yet it doesn't really bring much else to the table other than being easy to play. I think some Regen DR would do the set some good.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[InvaderStych]

5 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

You give up a lot for defensive stance.

 

Does it though? In real game-play terms?  Search around for threads on /Bio and the preponderance of them hail the sets ability to run +4x8 in Offensive without breaking a sweat, many going so far as to say they don't even bother with defensive stance.

 

If I saw more variance in armor choices among the top damage rankings, then maybe I'd be more inclined to feel differently - but until there is more variety there I don't see value in buffing the top performing sets like /Bio, /Rad, or /SD. Particularly /Bio given its absolute dominance in the +dmg department.

Edited February 17, 2022 by InvaderStych