Azrael Tank Ratings.

[Erratic1]

7 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Leveling with just SOs is some sort of iron man challenge thing.

 

Now, now....

 

I level on basic (non-set) crafted IOs, but that is because I am lazy and cheap--I neither want to replace SOs all the time and by using respecs later when switching to set IOs I can get the crafted IOs back, throw them in storage, and use them on future characters, thereby saving them a ton of influence. And on the initial character, not replacing SOs all the time also amount to a nice chunk of saved influence.

 

I like to tell myself it teaches me how the character handles, but really it is just me being cheap.

[Golden Azrael]

10 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

If you are playing a Resist set Tanker you are not going to have much in the way of Defense powers, meaning Weave will be operating on its own. With a base value of 5% Defense (All), Weave when first taken will mostly be an endurance drain of minimal value, taking your chance of being hit by an even level opponent from 50% to 45%. In most circumstances that is not going to be a noticeable difference.

 

 

I can say that having Weave and CJ on all made a big difference on all my Tanks.  And it is noticeable.  Plus, if you pop a single small luck it gives you what I call, 'reach.'  It all goes into the melting pot of mitigation.  Damage Tiks.  Defence.  Debuffs.  Resistance.  Health.  Aborbs.  Tier 9s.  Even without build outs.  This all adds up to you taking a beating supreme.  

 

So a beginner Tank needn't think it's Defence or Resistance (don't start folks :D)  Rather it's a cake with many layers of mitigation.  eg. Debuff such as slow, an Ice Mat, a damage tik, Taunt, and yes, Health, HIt Points and Absorbs.  Each Tank does it differently.  And how you design your tank is up to you.  There is optimisation as a levelling ('Iron Man Challenge') Tank and it's something else with built outs.

 

So, yes.  SO levelling 'out of the box' Tank.  Not the same as having a fully built out Tank.  But we're talking about two different things here.  Ofc.

 

Each dollop of defence you adds up.  Caveat, providing you watch your difficulty level on the mission so that Bosses and mobs can't 'peer' over your defence with a step ladder.

 

Azrael.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

1 minute ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Now, now....

 

I level on basic (non-set) crafted IOs, but that is because I am lazy and cheap--I neither want to replace SOs all the time and by using respecs later when switching to set IOs I can get the crafted IOs back, throw them in storage, and use them on future characters, thereby saving them a ton of influence. And on the initial character, not replacing SOs all the time also amount to a nice chunk of saved influence.

 

I like to tell myself it teaches me how the character handles, but really it is just me being cheap.

 

But even 'Cheap' Tanks r Gud.  😉

 

Out of the Box.

 

Azrael.

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

Well, true.  It's not 2003 anymore.  Ofc.  And we are on a 'P2W' server which has quality of life additions that were absent from the Live Server.  Would I walk those back?  That's a debate for another time.  But I have a friend who insists on levelling like it is.  He was in the CoH Beta.  So, I can kind of get where he's coming from.

 

I was in CoH beta.

 

This is a different game. Back then there was no ED and you could slot 6 of the same enhancement without penalty. Sets are the way to regain levels of functionality which went away with ED.

 

 

 

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

I can say that having Weave and CJ on all made a big difference on all my Tanks.  And it is noticeable.  Plus, if you pop a single small luck it gives you what I call, 'reach.'

 

Not the same as having a fully built out Tank.  But we're talking about two different things here.

 

Each dollop of defence you adds up.  Caveat, providing you watch your difficulty level on the mission so that Bosses and mobs can't 'peer' over your defence with a step ladder.

 

Azrael.

 

You do not need to have Weave to be able to pop Luck inspirations. And the inspiration is what is doing the heavy lifting here...a small purple is worth 12.5% which is 2.5x the base value of Weave, and 50% more than what you're getting out of a fully slotted Weave. Oh...and it doesn't cost endurance. 

 

You keep tossing out "built out" when responding to me. I am talking pure game mechanics here with no reference to sets.

[Golden Azrael]

5 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

I was in CoH beta.

 

This is a different game. Back then there was no ED and you could slot 6 of the same enhancement without penalty. Sets are the way to regain levels of functionality which went away with ED.

 

 

 

 

Aye.  Those were the days.

 

Azrael.

[Erratic1]

9 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

But even 'Cheap' Tanks r Gud.  😉

 

Out of the Box.

 

Azrael.

 

True, but I am that way on all my characters. 

 

Well, mostly now anyway...on my melee characters I will now (having a bit of pocket change) spring for the +3% Defense IOs from Steadfast Protection and Gladiator's Armor once a Defense based character has reached the point where no further improvement will be had via slotting their base powersets. Oddly enough the resist based melees just have to tough it out*. Thematic I suppose.

 

* I could get them the 5% Resist All from Shield Wall, but I don't do that.

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Erratic1

[Golden Azrael]

22 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

You do not need to have Weave to be able to pop Luck inspirations. And the inspiration is what is doing the heavy lifting here...a small purple is worth 12.5% which is 2.5x the base value of Weave, and 50% more than what you're getting out of a fully slotted Weave. Oh...and it doesn't cost endurance. 

 

You keep tossing out "built out" when responding to me. I am talking pure game mechanics here with no reference to sets.

 

Tanks are about layers.  Each layer you have makes a difference.  I wouldn't discount the Fighting Pool for the Beginning Tanker.  As I posted above, I can tell the difference.  If you put two end reds in Tough or Weave.  You notice the end drain less.  And you get the benefits of a decent chunk of S*L resistance that any Stone or Electric Armour Tank would benefit from.  Sure, a Luck inspire can give you significant reach but it is only temporary.  To any beginner Tank I'd always recommend keeping a full inspire tray of areas of 'weakness' the Tank has eg. Stamina or Defence for example.

 

Built Out vs SOs.  There is a difference.  As we know.  And the Tank doesn't start with IOs or Build Outs.  I might mention it here and there, as it is important that that the newcomer knows the difference.

 

Azrael.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

20 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

True, but I am that way on all my characters. 

 

Well, mostly now anyway...on my melee characters I will now (having a bit of pocket change) spring for the +3% Defense IOs from Steadfast Protection and Gladiator's Armor once a Defense based character has reached the point where no further improvement will be had via slotting their base powersets. Oddly enough the resist based melees just have to tough it out*. Thematic I suppose.

 

* I could get them the 5% Resist All from Shield Wall, but I don't do that.

 

 

I'm less 'SO' hardcore than I used to be.  I didn't build out until I was L50.  But, it aint 2003 anymore.

 

So I will 'intervene' with Fighting Pool, CJ and the 'obvious' (to me but not beginner Tanks) Uniques such as the Global Defence IOs.  Steadfast.  Gladiator.  That's 5%, 2.5%, 3%, 3% = 13.5%

 

And that's without spending a fortune on a pimped out purple build costing several hundreds of millions.  (That's the beauty of tanks.  You can with SOs, your Primary and some auxillary powers become a 'god'.  You pretty much are out of the box.  But yes, with a full build out you can take it to the next dimension.)

 

vs just getting a smack on the chops with 28% S*L on a Stone Tank or Electric Tank.

 

I love seeing the evolution of Tanks from choosing their Tier 1 Primary right up to all the other power choices and what each layer gives you.  You can tell as they're added to the mix.  (As someone who used to specalise in adding TOs for end reduction...every ounce is weighed.)

 

Useful for any beginner or vet' to know.  It's entirely possible to come to such 'pearls of wisdom' late in your CoH playing career or these 'not being obvious' to new players.

 

And yes, I've started, recently to patch those lower S*L resistance tanks with Shield Wall 'as I level' rather than suffering the entire 'Iron Man' Challenge all the way to L50 like I useta.

 

My build outs tend to start SOs then add some IOs, add more then a fuller built out as I reach L50.

 

If I was a new player?  I'd use SOs until L20-ish then fit general IOs for 'little cost' which will give future cost savings avoiding the upgrade fees.  (I've been too lazy to do this on my last ten Tanks though.)

 

The new player who is 'SO' only whilst learning the game might be intrigued to know how just a few Uniques and the Tanking AT sets can add so much to the Tanking Cake.

 

That said, Erratic, what would be your Tanking 'Top 3' or Top Ten for Beginners?  Which is your favourite Tank and why?  If I was a new player, which one do I go for?  Any?

 

Azrael.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Erratic1]

1 minute ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

Tanks are about layers.  Each layer you have makes a difference.  I wouldn't discount the Fighting Pool for the Beginning Tanker.  As I posted above, I can tell the difference.  If you put two end reds in Tough or Weave.  You notice the end drain less.  And you get the benefits of a decent chunk of S*L resistance that any Stone or Electric Armour Tank would benefit from.  Sure, a Luck inspire can give you significant reach but it is only temporary.  To any beginner Tank I'd always recommend keeping a full inspire tray of areas of 'weakness' the Tank has eg. Stamina or Defence for example.

 

Built Out vs SOs.  There is a difference.  As we know.  And the Tank doesn't start with IOs or Build Outs.  I might mention it here and there, as it is important that that the newcomer knows the difference.

 

Azrael.

 

You qualify that we're talking about beginning level tankers, say that you can notice the impact of Weave (particularly unslotted), but somehow the endurance cost of the power at those low levels is not an issue?

 

Weave costs 0.33 endurance per second, meaning it costs more than 25% more endurance to run than the typical defense/resist toggle, and you are layering that on top of your primary toggles and the endurance consumed by making attacks. At low levels it is easy to run yourself out of endurance. Yeah, pop a blue where you have to but for the most part running out of endurance is far more detrimental to survival than not running Weave, especially on a resist tanker.

 

But let us compare the impact of running Weave to not running Weave. Assume fully slotted Weave (SOs) running at about 8% Defense(All) and making even cons miss 8% more often. Compared to a non-Weave using Tanker they are taking 85% of the damage. So it is like them having 15% more health. So Weave, consuming 0.33 endurance per second, with 3 SOs is worth 15% more life (in the face of incoming damage sufficient to drop your character).

 

 Stick one slot in Health and slot 2 Healing SOs. Your total health regeneration goes up by more than 15%. This has cost you 1 slot and no extra endurance. It is not exactly an apples to apples comparison since you otherwise need to survive a minute in the face of incoming damage for the health regen to play out but there are unstated assumptions on the Weave side of things too (like lieutenants and bosses being in the mix who hit more reliably).

 

[Seed22]

18 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

Tanks are about layers.  Each layer you have makes a difference.  I wouldn't discount the Fighting Pool for the Beginning Tanker.  As I posted above, I can tell the difference.  If you put two end reds in Tough or Weave.  You notice the end drain less.  And you get the benefits of a decent chunk of S*L resistance that any Stone or Electric Armour Tank would benefit from.  Sure, a Luck inspire can give you significant reach but it is only temporary.  To any beginner Tank I'd always recommend keeping a full inspire tray of areas of 'weakness' the Tank has eg. Stamina or Defence for example.

 

Built Out vs SOs.  There is a difference.  As we know.  And the Tank doesn't start with IOs or Build Outs.  I might mention it here and there, as it is important that that the newcomer knows the difference.

 

Azrael.

I agree with you here, Az.

 

I take tough and weave on all my 50s. It's like the OG days of having to grab stamina for me back before fitness was inherent. I just...kinda do it, plus even if you don't slot it, if you don't have defense(i.e RadA), you can get either a free mule or some minor def from it. Vice versa for def based sets.

[Golden Azrael]

6 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

You qualify that we're talking about beginning level tankers, say that you can notice the impact of Weave (particularly unslotted), but somehow the endurance cost of the power at those low levels is not an issue?

 

Weave costs 0.33 endurance per second, meaning it costs more than 25% more endurance to run than the typical defense/resist toggle, and you are layering that on top of your primary toggles and the endurance consumed by making attacks. At low levels it is easy to run yourself out of endurance. Yeah, pop a blue where you have to but for the most part running out of endurance is far more detrimental to survival than not running Weave, especially on a resist tanker.

 

But let us compare the impact of running Weave to not running Weave. Assume fully slotted Weave (SOs) running at about 8% Defense(All) and making even cons miss 8% more often. Compared to a non-Weave using Tanker they are taking 85% of the damage. So it is like them having 15% more health. So Weave, consuming 0.33 endurance per second, with 3 SOs is worth 15% more life (in the face of incoming damage sufficient to drop your character).

 

 Stick one slot in Health and slot 2 Healing SOs. Your total health regeneration goes up by more than 15%. This has cost you 1 slot and no extra endurance. It is not exactly an apples to apples comparison since you otherwise need to survive a minute in the face of incoming damage for the health regen to play out but there are unstated assumptions on the Weave side of things too (like lieutenants and bosses being in the mix who hit more reliably).

 

 

Anybody who's rolled a Tank with Toggles and adds Fighting Pool knows all about endurance costs.

 

I've always done 2 End Reds for Toggles and 2 End Reds for Attacks above '10' and one end reduction for Attacks below ten.

 

Any beginner Tank may need to know that when rolling a Dark Armour Tank, for example.

 

'I've got an end problem...' etc.

We've all been there.  But I managed to fix Dark Armour's 'end problem' with End Reduction SOs.  Quite easily.

 

Azrael.

 

PS.  What IS your Starter Tank for the new Tank player? 🙂

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Erratic1]

1 minute ago, Seed22 said:

I agree with you here, Az.

 

I take tough and weave on all my 50s. It's like the OG days of having to grab stamina for me back before fitness was inherent. I just...kinda do it, plus even if you don't slot it, if you don't have defense(i.e RadA), you can get either a free mule or some minor def from it. Vice versa for def based sets.

Muling (using a power's slots for holding set IOs with useful  effects) is outside the realm Azrael qualified. He is talking about beginning level broadly and no more than SOs in the end.

 

I've got Weave on my Elec/Rad Tanker for muling purposes--Shield Wall (+5% Res), Reactive Defenses (+3% Resis and Scaling Resist), and Luck of the Gambler (+7.5% Recharge). Having no DDR, his defense values are an afterthought.

 

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

Anybody who's rolled a Tank with Toggles and adds Fighting Pool knows all about endurance costs.

 

I've always done 2 End Reds for Toggles and 2 End Reds for Attacks above '10' and one end reduction for Attacks below ten.

 

It feels like bait and switch here at times.  Sure, at level 50 you've got the slots to slot endurance reduction and damage resistance. A low level tanker? He's got a limited number of slots to work with and a lot of ground to cover.

 

FWIW, I only slot one endurance reduction in toggles and double slot attacks (eventually).

 

 

2 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

Any beginner Tank may need to know that when rolling a Dark Armour Tank, for example.

 

Dark Armor...oh the endurance woes. Great set in the end but the road getting there...ouch.

 

I should make a Dark/Rad or Dark/TW tanker for the ultimate, "I'm out of endurance" experience someday. 😁

 

 

 

[Erratic1]

8 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

PS.  What IS your Starter Tank for the new Tank player? 🙂

 

Truthfully? Whatever is going to endlessly fascinate them and make them stick with the character (especially if/when things get tough) to level 50.

 

My Elec/Rad Tanker struggled with endurance while levelling him, even with Energize as a power, slotting Performance Shifter, putting in Endurance Reduction enhancements...he was just always barely not avoiding detoggling and having to limit his attacks to do so. But conceptually I could not let him go. I would fiddle with his build, planned his costume multiple times, had a bio to fit the costume and powers. Other characters giving me that much trouble, especially as they break into their 40s, would have been benched and I would have gone onto my next project. Slowly, oh so slowly, as he neared 50 things began to get better.

 

 

He is a true, brought to full functionality via set IOs, creation. But even without IOs in mind, I would advise finding a concept you love and will be deeply invested in.

[Erratic1]

25 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

PS.  What IS your Starter Tank for the new Tank player? 🙂

 

 Okay, if I am suggesting something to someone who has no experience whatsoever with tanking or the Tanker powersets....

 

...Invulnerability/Dark Melee?

 

My first melee character taken to max was a DM/Inv scrapper back in the days when Tankers did not get DM. He was stupidly tough. Never tried the combo again on Tanker but it has to be glorious.

[Infinitum]

11 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

 Okay, if I am suggesting something to someone who has no experience whatsoever with tanking or the Tanker powersets....

 

...Invulnerability/Dark Melee?

 

My first melee character taken to max was a DM/Inv scrapper back in the days when Tankers did not get DM. He was stupidly tough. Never tried the combo again on Tanker but it has to be glorious.

Invul/EM - simple effective powerful.

[Golden Azrael]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

Muling (using a power's slots for holding set IOs with useful  effects) is outside the realm Azrael qualified. He is talking about beginning level broadly and no more than SOs in the end.

 

I've got Weave on my Elec/Rad Tanker for muling purposes--Shield Wall (+5% Res), Reactive Defenses (+3% Resis and Scaling Resist), and Luck of the Gambler (+7.5% Recharge). Having no DDR, his defense values are an afterthought.

 

 

At some point, the Beginner Tank is going to want to know about 'muling.'  (You can end up having that much resistance through a limited build out that you can turn Tough off and still enjoy the Global Defence that will stack to a SO build.

 

To the 'Starter Tank' my Hot Tips would be:

 

You don't need a full built out with IOs to be a good tank.

 

Good primary (and 2ndary) power choices well slotted with SOs can make you a 'good' Tank.

 

Tanking TIP!

 

Adding Tertiary power sets like Fighting, CJ and Leadership can add to your Tanking Powers!  And build upon your resistance and defence numbers as well as your accuracy and damage.

 

Tanking TIP 2!

 

Lots of toggles and heavy endurance attacks will cost you endurance and can be crippling if you 'go all out.'  So load the End Reduction SOs and test their impact on your endurance bar.  My general rule would be 1 end reduction for each toggle minimum.  My preference is for 'two' end heavy sets like Dark Armour.  Likewise.  On Attacks?  Two end reductions on attacks that cost more than ten.  1 for attacks less than 10.

 

Azrael.

 

PS.  A beginner Tank who develops their understanding of Tanks (I was a very late bloomer in this regard...) then targeted use of a handful of Uniques (like the ones you mention) and 'earning the AT set' through TFs for those merits can take their Tank to the next level without 100s of millions spent influence.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

51 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Invul/EM - simple effective powerful.

 

I think that's a great choice, Infinitum.  After my vociferous comments on the Energy Melee Beta Design pass, I was sold at 'Hello.'

 

It is simple and effective and does what it says on the tin.  You're 'Tough' and you can Deal Damage.  (We're no longer the huff and puff stamina spent 'hits like a girl' Tanks pre-HC's Tank and Energy Melee pass.)

 

Invul/EM go together like a Hammer and an Anvil.

 

For any Starter Tank new to Tanks or CoH?  That would be a 'perfect' Tank to begin with.  If you want to be 'well ard' and hit like a mother trucker.

 

I re-rolled mine from live.  And if you add the Tank design pass and the Re-evolutionary Energy Melee design pass you it gives you all the single target damage you need for 'lights out' damage and much more robust AoE damage.  Mobs just melt.  Stack Invulnerability's Mob Surrounded Bonus to Def and To hit.  And we have a 'winner.'

 

Classic old school tanking.  Trucker Tanking Cake.

 

For the record, though.  I did have a friend, who on live, 'two slotted' his Tank's Invulnerable armour powers...and 5 slotted all his attacks.  He couldn't understand why he was getting his head caved in.  And I consider my friend intelligent.  

 

He asked me, 'What's wrong with it in your view?'

 

I looked at it, 'Er...your armour powers don't have many SOs in them...aren't you supposed to be a Tank ie take damage?'  Where he was focused on Skanking (or whatever it was called.)

 

Tanking Tip.

 

Balance your defence and your attacks.  You take damage.  That's your job!  Build that emphasis in as you level.  I'd slot those S*L Armour powers in the 1st two tiers out real quick to 3 slots.  Max out what S*L you have as soon as you can.  As early as you can.  It does make a difference.

 

Azrael. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

35 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

 Okay, if I am suggesting something to someone who has no experience whatsoever with tanking or the Tanker powersets....

 

...Invulnerability/Dark Melee?

 

My first melee character taken to max was a DM/Inv scrapper back in the days when Tankers did not get DM. He was stupidly tough. Never tried the combo again on Tanker but it has to be glorious.

 

I recently saw on Infin's thread about the idea of Shield and Dark Melee.  What a revelation of synergy.

 

Like wise, I think your suggestion to someone with no tanking experience (and there are plenty of threads with 'Which Tank R Best for...' or 'I'm new to Tanking so which is...') is very shrewd.

 

...it's a great choice, is Invulerability and Dark Melee.  You can't hit me.  I can hit you.  The more I hit you?  The more you can't hit me.  Leaving Council Vamps with their jaw hanging off their head.

 

In lay man's terms?  The 1st choice stops you getting hit as much and increases your chances of hitting.  Dark Melee increases this with a  -to Hit Synergy that is difficult to beat.

 

The more you beat down the mobs, the harder it is to hit you or hurt you.

 

Top Choice.  Having recently done a Dark/Dark Tank (which was a revelation in Tanking combat...and how to build those layers and how to solve that end problem...)  Not withstanding that Dark Melee has come out of the design pass of Tanks very well with eg. Sands of Mu's increase of targets.  (Everybody in a mob is getting a Sand Slap.)  Touch of Fear now does damage.  Floating numbers.  You get a long durations BUILD UP etc.  And you get End return with Consumption.  This would be the 'Mulbery Rules' Thinking Tank's choice.

 

If I'm going to the Tanking Cake shop?  I'm buying a Invulnerable / Dark Melee cake.  Everybody likes chocolate, right?

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

57 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Truthfully? Whatever is going to endlessly fascinate them and make them stick with the character (especially if/when things get tough) to level 50.

 

My Elec/Rad Tanker struggled with endurance while levelling him, even with Energize as a power, slotting Performance Shifter, putting in Endurance Reduction enhancements...he was just always barely not avoiding detoggling and having to limit his attacks to do so. But conceptually I could not let him go. I would fiddle with his build, planned his costume multiple times, had a bio to fit the costume and powers. Other characters giving me that much trouble, especially as they break into their 40s, would have been benched and I would have gone onto my next project. Slowly, oh so slowly, as he neared 50 things began to get better.

 

 

He is a true, brought to full functionality via set IOs, creation. But even without IOs in mind, I would advise finding a concept you love and will be deeply invested in.

 

And this is true.

 

Very personal and sound post.  Contributes the struggle of the 'Starter Tank' dilemma in one fell swoop.  Complete with groovy Fish Tank Head Tank.

 

Electric Armour (despite being sap proof...) does have a running battle as you level to try and get the end equilibrium (my phrase for end going out and end coming in during combat) sorted as your Tank matures.

 

You go to the Tanking Ice Parlour or Tanking Cake Shop.  You choose.

 

Tanking Top Tip 3.

 

Roll a bunch of these 'Top Ten' Tanks.  Test(!) them to L10.  One of them?  You WILL take to L50.

 

'Any' of them are 'gods.'  Any of them will get you 'there' with the right choices of toppings.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

 

It feels like bait and switch here at times.  Sure, at level 50 you've got the slots to slot endurance reduction and damage resistance. A low level tanker? He's got a limited number of slots to work with and a lot of ground to cover.

 

FWIW, I only slot one endurance reduction in toggles and double slot attacks (eventually).

 

 

 

Dark Armor...oh the endurance woes. Great set in the end but the road getting there...ouch.

 

I should make a Dark/Rad or Dark/TW tanker for the ultimate, "I'm out of endurance" experience someday. 😁

 

 

 

 

Erratic makes a few sound and interesting points here.  The 'Road of the Tanker.'  It's different for each one.  And it can be 'a journey.'  Any starter tanker needs to weigh this up.

 

But many Tanks suffer endurance issues.  You have to be able to stand up...then you need to take a punch...then you need to show you can dish a punch.

 

Eg. Like Erratic says re: Dark Armour, 'Great Set in end but the road getting there...'  is wrought with choices to minimise it's expensive endurance.  (For experienced Tankers, this is a fascinating dual of the the wits...but may be off putting for the beginner.)  So his and Infin's choice of Invulerability?  That's probably where I'd go for a starter Tank!

 

Ergo.  Pairing up Dark Melee with Invulnerability, like Erratic said, is a shrewd choice.

 

As to your 1st point.  True.  Though I must add, before the dereliction of TOs?  I used to put x4 Slots of TO End Reductions in my Shield Tank's toggles.  Just to get the equivalent of SO end reductions BEFORE the move to 'standardise' SOs earlier in the game recently.  I was obsessed with End Reduction.  In fact.  On live?  I tried an Ice/Ice Blaster without Fitness Pool as a test (back then) and using x2 or even x3 End Reductions I managed to get an Ice Blaster to behave with Endurance.  (That Slow Aura was such an end hog back in the day.)

 

Like you say, 'eventually' is how it is with Tanks.  It's a balance of Defence and Attack as you level.  Which does the beginner prioritise? 

 

Tanker Tip 4.

 

Once you get your 1st three attacks?  Prioritise your armours there after.  You want to keep yourself alive (yeah.)  You can pick 'just' two attacks and just two armours to begin with.  Some tanking purists from live?  Would pick just one attack and go all out on armours from there on in.  Some Tanks are happy with 'just a few' attacks, some like more attacks.  That's your choice to discern.

 

Azrael.

[Erratic1]

20 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

Very personal and sound post.  Contributes the struggle of the 'Starter Tank' dilemma in one fell swoop.  Complete with groovy Fish Tank Head Tank.

 

The real trick is the eyes. You have to trick the costume editor. 😄

[Golden Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

The real trick is the eyes. You have to trick the costume editor. 😄

 

It is.  My friend did that VERY 'glow' eyes back on live and won the costume contest for £1 million influence.   

 

It is a cool effect though.  And lifts the fish tank to another level.  

I was quietly steamed with jealousy that he won and I didn't.  (Sorry, envy.)

 

Fair play to him.

 

Azrael.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

 

If you're a beginning Tank?  MUST READ.

 

Another Top TIP.  Go to this thread above.  For 'Quality of Life.'  'Pearls of Wisdom.'  It will fast track you and get you up and running.  (Unless you're a fan of playing like it's still 2003 and rolling boulders up hill...)

 

You might find this Authoritative Beginners Guide to CoH useful.  !

 

I did and I #loosely qualify as a 'veteran' player and I learned loads from reading it.

 

Azrael.