Sister Solaris's arc needs reworking with the new Incarnate Cimerorans

[arcane]

So you’re saying this content was difficult for veteran players when set to +0x1 no bosses? If so, yeah, that’s too much.

[Rudra]

If the problem doesn't occur until you reach the minotaurs and cyclopses, then wouldn't tactics come into play? I've always been a fan of hit and run. Did the aggro changes on page 4 change players' ability to kite mobs? (Seriously asking here. Because that is the tactic most of my characters use in that mission. [Edit: Even my melees most times.])

Edited August 14, 2022 by Rudra

[Coyotedancer]

57 minutes ago, arcane said:

So you’re saying this content was difficult for veteran players when set to +0x1 no bosses? If so, yeah, that’s too much.

 

Like anything, it's also dependent on the character you take in.

 

Kestrel (DB/WP Scrap) and her Adept were able to go Leeroy Jenkins on a full group that was level 54 with the bosses off. They could handle half groups of four monsters at that same level (Effectively +1, since she was +3 and the goons were set to +4) with the bosses on. Full groups at +4 with bosses took her apart pretty handily. 

 

But Kes is a fully T4ed character with a ludicrous build and a perma-summoned sidekick. She's not what we should count as any kind of average... She's the over-engineered edge-case.

 

The more "average" character (the Dark Sentinel) taken in without the extra two level shifts from Lore and Destiny, with just an Alpha shift and a set of T2 toys did, indeed, have trouble with the mission set to  -1/No Bosses. He could handle smaller, partial groups of monsters and the Talon hordes at that difficulty... But a larger  or full pull of the monster groups flattened him every time. 

 

I think the problem with the current/Page 4 monster mobs is that this is an arc intended to be a) soloed and b) done by characters still trying to completely equip their incarnate slots. It's part of the progression, not the "end game".... So, if an average-strength character like Shonokin, with lower-tier incarnate toys and incomplete level shifts, can't handle the groups on their own (The helper NPCs may not survive to that point, remember, so the odds of having to face those beasts completely solo is pretty high-) then it needs to be given a once over.

 

Maybe the answer isn't to downgrade the monsters, but to buff the survivability of the NPC helpers? You do get a nice badge for diving in without them, but forgoing that badge to clear the mission with a less-developed character might be a reasonable trade. 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Coyotedancer

[Coyotedancer]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

If the problem doesn't occur until you reach the minotaurs and cyclopses, then wouldn't tactics come into play? I've always been a fan of hit and run. Did the aggro changes on page 4 change players' ability to kite mobs? (Seriously asking here. Because that is the tactic most of my characters use in that mission. [Edit: Even my melees most times.])

 

That's why we've been testing on Beta. 

 

And yeah... It's hard with the Page 4 build to pull the monsters in ones or twos. I only managed to do it a few times with one character, using Zapp (an actual snipe attack-), from cover, right at max distance. 

 

Even then, it wasn't a sure thing. As I said my average attempts at pulling ended up with groups of four. 

 

Jousting is pretty luck-dependent... I tend to bounce around A LOT with Shonokin (the Sent I was testing with-)  and it really didn't seem to be a good solution. Eventually they still got enough hits in to knock him over.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Coyotedancer

[Uun]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

Did you try reducing your difficulty settings??? Like not just the no bosses part, but the level etc? I see a 54 in a picture?

The successful Mind dominator run above was at lvl 52 (i.e., -1 with the level shift).

[arcane]

Saying things like “effectively +0” or “effectively -1” for difficulties like +2 or +3… is adding layers of confusion since I’m trying to ask if people are struggling at base difficulty or only at higher difficulties. It’s not yet clear to me that people are actually struggling at base difficulty because of that added confusion?

[Coyotedancer]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Saying things like “effectively +0” or “effectively -1” for difficulties like +2 or +3… is adding layers of confusion since I’m trying to ask if people are struggling at base difficulty or only at higher difficulties. It’s not yet clear to me that people are actually struggling at base difficulty because of that added confusion?

 

I set Shonokin's difficulty to -1/x1/with Bosses for his first run and -1/x1/No Bosses for the second. He had an Alpha shift only, so was 50+1 himself with T2 powers. (He's the "In-Progress Everyman")

 

I went in with Grey Kestrel at +4/x1/With Bosses and then +4/x1/Without. She's fully Incanrnated, so was 50+3 with T4 powers. (She's the "Over-engineered Edge Case")

 

Aegis, the Illusion Controller is also 50+3. I sent her in at +3/x1/No Bosses. She's has T3 powers. (She's the "Average Non-melee Incarnate")

 

Kai, the Stalker, is 50+3 with T4 powers and I sent her in at +3/x1/With Bosses. (In the past, prior to the Cim mob revamp and aggro changes, she was able to solo the mission without the helpers at +4/x8/With Bosses, so she was my "control character" so to speak. )

 

Does that clarify things?

 

 

ETA: I'm about to head back over to rerun the Illusion controller at -1/x1/No Bosses, along with a couple of other new transfers... A Shield/Street Scrap and a Demon/Time MM.

 

ETA 2: 

 

Tessamun (The "Average In-Progress Melee" test)

Street/Shield Scrap

Mission set to -1/x1/No Bosses

 

I removed her Hybrid, Destiny and Lore completely to simulate an incomplete character working on their toys. She went in at 50+1 with a T4 Alpha and T3 Interface and Judgement.

 

She had no trouble at all with the monsters in groups of 1 to 3. (Yeah. I actually found a cyclops off by himself and managed to pull him as a single with her Blackwand-) The average pull of 4 was painful but survivable with some judicial use of inspies and jousting.  She survived a pull of five with a tiny bit of health because the last minotaur missed and she didn't. Pure RNG luck. A group of anywhere from 6 to the full 8 was, pretty much as expected,  deadly. 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Coyotedancer

[Coyotedancer]

Okay,,,, as sick as I'm getting of seeing this mission over and over again, my re-run with Aegis (Illusion/Time Controller) was hilarious this time.

 

I set the mission to -1/x1/No Bosses

I let her keep her full set of T3 iToys, so she went in at 50+3

 

The first group I pulled apart into two groups of four. Her Phantom Army and Phantasm had no trouble with them

The next groups I didn't try to split. I had to resummon my Phantasm halfway through, but ultimately Team Aegis won. Confusing a couple of minotaurs definitely helped when I decided to use that trick.

The last batch was close to another group, so I tried to pull them over to another spot. BOTH groups aggroed.

 

Disaster? Well... no. I let the gang do their thing with the first group and went the cheese-route with the second group. 'Used Deceive on them one by one while they threw rocks at my PA. Watching them teleport each other into little knots was fun. If you have an Illusion Controller, I highly recommend it. 👍

 

So, with the goons at -1 and a full set of level shifts and no bosses, a squishy controller with a confusion effect can handle full groups.

 

For the second run, though, I pulled her Lore and Destiny, taking her in at 50+1 against the same -1/x1/No Boss conditions.

 

She was still able to cheese her way through groups using (Abusing? 😝 ) Deceive, but there was more missing involved, so it took longer.

 

Hitting the monsters the non-cheese way with PA and her Phantasm and her assorted other powers was tougher. Like the first run I did with her there was some timing and luck involved. She could handle up to six at a time pretty reliably, but a full group of eight was hairy. If she didn't have the high recharge she does, I'm not sure she could have pulled it off.

 

So.... yeah. With a 50+1 Illusion Controller, Deceive is your new best friend. Sets without some kind of confusion power? I'm not sure how they would handle a full group. That's why I wanted to try hitting groups both with the use of Deceive and without it. 

 

Next up is Amtes the Mastermind,  

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Coyotedancer

[Uun]

One more success with my Beast/Traps MM. Set to +2/x4 with bosses and a +3 level shift. While Teleport Target wouldn't TP the Cyclops or Minotaurs, it was pretty good at pulling 1-3 out of the groups. The pets could handle a single easily, and could handle 3-4 if I used Fortify Pack and Triage Beacon. I used Destiny/Rebirth and Hybrid/Support occasionally. Kept the pets in bodyguard mode for the most part, and as long as they didn't all die at once, I could resummon them before I became vulnerable.

[Uun]

Best run yet on an Illusion/Time controller with perma PA, Farsight and Chrono Shift. Set to +4/x4 with bosses and a +3 level shift. I confused lieutenants when fighting the Talons to speed things up, but Phantom Army did the heavy lifting. I pulled out Spooky against the monsters and the elders for added safety while resummoning PA. I pulled out lores during the fight against Rommie but didn't really need to.