Focused Feedback: Irradiated Ground

[WindDemon21]

1 minute ago, Ratch_ said:

The instances where only 1 patch is down and ticking is my stance on why this power is fine as is. It does not get tanker radius buffs, a drawback of being a pet as well as it being dmg cap limited to I believe 400% (only really harming brutes), but this does actually crit on scrappers. 

I heavily disagree that this power is bad by any stretch. I like the flavor and think it does it's job very well in the set. The idea of it doing less compared to other auras in certain situations and doing more in other situations is something I welcome personally. 

But that's what I just pointed out. It doesn't do more EVER, until both patches are layed down. and always does less when build up and other buffs are involved.

 

So at BEST it's equal to damage auras after standing there for a minimum of 5 seconds, to a maximum of 10 seconds. This is NOT fine as is without being compensated elsewhere.(and that tiny defense debuff is not it btw).

 

The power easily needs that 50% damage increase.

[Ratch_]

1 minute ago, WindDemon21 said:

But that's what I just pointed out. It doesn't do more EVER, until both patches are layed down. and always does less when build up and other buffs are involved.

 

So at BEST it's equal to damage auras after standing there for a minimum of 5 seconds, to a maximum of 10 seconds. This is NOT fine as is without being compensated elsewhere.(and that tiny defense debuff is not it btw).

 

The power easily needs that 50% damage increase.

Well, it's better than other damage auras since it essentially equivalents blazing aura ( which is the strongest dmg aura available to any melee AT set. It does more than other similar auras I assume just by nature of it being considered Fire ). I'm really not sure what more you are wanting this power to be doing? 

IG is also contaminating targets for you and it compared to quills which is the only other dmg aura in an actual melee set, quills doesn't even begin to hold a candle to it by this point in regards to just pure damage output. 

[WindDemon21]

Just now, Ratch_ said:

Well, it's better than other damage auras since it essentially equivalents blazing aura ( which is the strongest dmg aura available to any melee AT set. It does more than other similar auras I assume just by nature of it being considered Fire ). I'm really not sure what more you are wanting this power to be doing? 

IG is also contaminating targets for you and it compared to quills which is the only other dmg aura in an actual melee set, quills doesn't even begin to hold a candle to it by this point in regards to just pure damage output. 

Regarding what I said, again don't forget about how it interacts with build up too, but just the sheer discontinuity of how little it does in any fight that you aren't just standing in one place the entire time. This alone makes it pretty bad as I've recently mentioned without at least offering better damage in the long run and other stuff.

 

Since they can now differentiate which patch gets the proc, I'd say at least a start to fixing that may be also to at least have it proc a patch every 2 seconds (proc every 5th patch) and have it do 20% instead of 50% damage). Same damage output but actually matters more often, and would contaminate more. (def debuff could go down a little given more patches).

 

In any regard though, in most normal gameplay, it's still much worse than a standard damage toggle. Dont forget, even if you're standing there post 10 seconds, that you'll have always missed that initial 5-10s worth of lost damage, so that should always be calculated, and that's even in it's best case scenario of like a long duration AV fight. Again, in most standard play, its pretty horrid by comparison when you move around a fight.

[Ratch_]

8 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Regarding what I said, again don't forget about how it interacts with build up too, but just the sheer discontinuity of how little it does in any fight that you aren't just standing in one place the entire time. This alone makes it pretty bad as I've recently mentioned without at least offering better damage in the long run and other stuff.

 

Since they can now differentiate which patch gets the proc, I'd say at least a start to fixing that may be also to at least have it proc a patch every 2 seconds (proc every 5th patch) and have it do 20% instead of 50% damage). Same damage output but actually matters more often, and would contaminate more. (def debuff could go down a little given more patches).

 

In any regard though, in most normal gameplay, it's still much worse than a standard damage toggle. Dont forget, even if you're standing there post 10 seconds, that you'll have always missed that initial 5-10s worth of lost damage, so that should always be calculated, and that's even in it's best case scenario of like a long duration AV fight. Again, in most standard play, its pretty horrid by comparison when you move around a fight.

It does interact with build up, any patch that drops during Build Up's duration is getting the dmg enhance. While I can't ever disagree that you won't be standing in a single spot for a long time in normal play, I don't find it true that you will never be standing in a similar area for over 10s+. Patch stacking does and can happen in normal play. It happens often in solo play, and in team play it can occur in a lot of TF content like ITFs. It does not really happen in +0 speedrunning content or radio missions...so impact of the power is less there but I don't think this is unique to IG itself. Damage auras here really aren't carrying lot's of value at this group clearing speed. I understand your concerns for the power but I think we will have to agree to disagree that the power needs help.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Ratch_

[WindDemon21]

2 minutes ago, Ratch_ said:

It does interact with build up, any patch that drops during Build Up's duration is getting the dmg enhance. While I can't ever disagree that you won't be standing in a single spot for a long time in normal play, I don't find it true that you will never be standing in a similar area for over 10s+. Patch stacking does and can happen in normal play. It happens often in solo play, and in team play it can occur in a lot of TF content like ITFs. It does not really happen in +0 speedrunning content or radio missions...but what damage aura really does? I understand your concerns for the power but I think we will have to agree to disagree that the power needs help.

As I've said, basically, even with build up, let's say you jump in, a patch drops mid-jump, and when you land you use build up. That means that there is approximately 4.5s where NO patch is on the mobs, wasting 4.5 seconds of that build up in regards to the patch. That also means, that it's only boosting, the other 5.5 seconds, of HALF it's damage, as it only reaches standard damage after 2 patches.

 

So in this scenario, a damage aura and it at best case scenario of jumping in using build up as soon as you land, and you get the first damage aura tic, and a first IG patch lays down. For ease of discussion, will say each "standard" damage is 10 per proc for the  damage aura, and ie  would be 5 for the patch:

 

Damage toggle: 100% base + 100% enhanced + 100% from build up: Means over those 10 seconds, thats 150 damage. (10 x 300% x 5 tics)

 

IG: patch casts right as you use build up: 15 x 5tics = 75 for first patch, second patch at 5s, casts = 15 (5s) + 15 (7s) + 15 (9s) = 45. Total damage = 120.

 

This means at BEST case scenario, it's doing 80% damage compared to if it was a regular damage aura.

 

However, that is at the 100% best case. In most play, when moving around, even if just for the start of a fight, it's going to be even less of a value. Even looking at the same fight, not using build up, only this time, both the regular aura, and patch, starts .5s before jumping, no build up:

 

Toggle: 20 damage, ticcing at 1.5s, 3.5, 5.5, 7.5, 9.5s = 200 damage

 

IG: First patch at 4.5s: 10 damage at 4.5s, 6.5 8.5 = 60 damage

Second patch at 9.5s = 20 damage

 

This means, in the worst case over those first 10 seconds it's only 40% of the damage versus if it was a standard toggle in those first 10 seconds. So obviously, let's say you jump in in the worst scenario, and stay for 20s, that 40% would be closer to 60% and so forth, but again, that depends if the fight stays there that entire time and doens't move.

 

This is also just figuring, you jump in, and stay there the whole time and don't move. ANY time you move around the battlefield, it only gets worse from there. So at best, 80% of the damage it should do, at worst (of still standing there) 40% of the damage it should do, and at WORST WORST even given maybe the one patch tics a few others where you were, maybe, roundabout guess 25% value? Now as you sit there longer, of course it starts going up in percent, but you always will have lost that first 10 seconds of effectiveness too so it will never be at full damage compared to standard damage toggle.

 

You may *think* it's fine for yourself but the numbers do not lie in actual combat. And at average most gameplay it's only doing about maybe 50-75% damage of what it should do.

 

Also note further testing, any damage boosts, be it build up, fury, or inspirations, wear off after the first 2 tics of the patches, so the value from that is even less yet again.

 

THIS POWER IS NOT OK AS IS ON BETA.

[Sovera]

37 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

As I've said, basically, even with build up, let's say you jump in, a patch drops mid-jump, and when you land you use build up. That means that there is approximately 4.5s where NO patch is on the mobs, wasting 4.5 seconds of that build up in regards to the patch. That also means, that it's only boosting, the other 5.5 seconds, of HALF it's damage, as it only reaches standard damage after 2 patches.

 

So in this scenario, a damage aura and it at best case scenario of jumping in using build up as soon as you land, and you get the first damage aura tic, and a first IG patch lays down. For ease of discussion, will say each "standard" damage is 10 per proc for the  damage aura, and ie  would be 5 for the patch:

 

Damage toggle: 100% base + 100% enhanced + 100% from build up: Means over those 10 seconds, thats 150 damage. (10 x 300% x 5 tics)

 

IG: patch casts right as you use build up: 15 x 5tics = 75 for first patch, second patch at 5s, casts = 15 (5s) + 15 (7s) + 15 (9s) = 45. Total damage = 120.

 

This means at BEST case scenario, it's doing 80% damage compared to if it was a regular damage aura.

 

However, that is at the 100% best case. In most play, when moving around, even if just for the start of a fight, it's going to be even less of a value. Even looking at the same fight, not using build up, only this time, both the regular aura, and patch, starts .5s before jumping, no build up:

 

Toggle: 20 damage, ticcing at 1.5s, 3.5, 5.5, 7.5, 9.5s = 200 damage

 

IG: First patch at 4.5s: 10 damage at 4.5s, 6.5 8.5 = 60 damage

Second patch at 9.5s = 20 damage

 

This means, in the worst case over those first 10 seconds it's only 40% of the damage versus if it was a standard toggle in those first 10 seconds. So obviously, let's say you jump in in the worst scenario, and stay for 20s, that 40% would be closer to 60% and so forth, but again, that depends if the fight stays there that entire time and doens't move.

 

This is also just figuring, you jump in, and stay there the whole time and don't move. ANY time you move around the battlefield, it only gets worse from there. So at best, 80% of the damage it should do, at worst (of still standing there) 40% of the damage it should do, and at WORST WORST even given maybe the one patch tics a few others where you were, maybe, roundabout guess 25% value? Now as you sit there longer, of course it starts going up in percent, but you always will have lost that first 10 seconds of effectiveness too so it will never be at full damage compared to standard damage toggle.

 

You may *think* it's fine for yourself but the numbers do not lie in actual combat. And at average most gameplay it's only doing about maybe 50-75% damage of what it should do.

 

Also note further testing, any damage boosts, be it build up, fury, or inspirations, wear off after the first 2 tics of the patches, so the value from that is even less yet again.

 

THIS POWER IS NOT OK AS IS ON BETA.

 

 

Bit late now for changes with Page 5 nearing exit, but nothing says the power can't be tweaked after that while Page 6 is being worked on. There are mini patches for power tweaks between page releases.

 

 

But I think that your argument would hold more weight if you let the math go (let it gooooooooooooooo) and just brought numbers of having tested. Whatever test you feel like, it does not need to be trapdoors or pylons. Only thing it needs to be is something you can do on live with current procced out IG and the IG on the beta server.

 

It is also a lot harder to refute if you slap the results down as any argument that 'it is ok' will have a clear rebuttal and it is now up to the person to show their own tests proving it is, as they claim, fine as is.

[WindDemon21]

6 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

 

Bit late now for changes with Page 5 nearing exit, but nothing says the power can't be tweaked after that while Page 6 is being worked on. There are mini patches for power tweaks between page releases.

 

 

But I think that your argument would hold more weight if you let the math go (let it gooooooooooooooo) and just brought numbers of having tested. Whatever test you feel like, it does not need to be trapdoors or pylons. Only thing it needs to be is something you can do on live with current procced out IG and the IG on the beta server.

 

It is also a lot harder to refute if you slap the results down as any argument that 'it is ok' will have a clear rebuttal and it is now up to the person to show their own tests proving it is, as they claim, fine as is.

That was with the numbers tested, I just simplified the actual  damage per tic for the explanation. Again, it was expressing how at BEST its still al ittle under value, and at worst, which is the most common, it's far less.

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

That was with the numbers tested, I just simplified the actual  damage per tic for the explanation. Again, it was expressing how at BEST its still al ittle under value, and at worst, which is the most common, it's far less.

 

I may have missed those. My focus has been on Fire Armor (who wouldda guess it??). Do you have something close to a % of how worse beta is behaving opposed to live?

[WindDemon21]

On 10/13/2022 at 4:28 PM, Sovera said:

 

I may have missed those. My focus has been on Fire Armor (who wouldda guess it??). Do you have something close to a % of how worse beta is behaving opposed to live?

I haven't tested that yet, almost too afraid cause i know it's nice on melee, but if it turns into what the blaster version lists for, it's going to suck so bad :/.