DC Chapter One: Gods & Monsters (Gunnverse Reboot)

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

So, what have Gunn and Safran been up to?

 

Quite a few surprising choices, and a lot more adventurous than I'd expect for... well... mass market commercial projects.

Y'hope WB/DC knew what they were getting when they hired this guy. Though if Peacemaker didn't give them a clue...

 

 

Official puff-piece here on the DC site here...

 

Thoughts:

• If there's a thing that makes me nod and smile, it's the have-your-cake-and-eat-it approach: this is DCU, anything that's cool/extra-weird but doesn't fit the main thread is Elseworlds. Matt Reeves getting a second flick is great: Todd Philips... eh.
• Personal fave: The Authority. Yes please. I was disappointed when Marvel punted Thunderbolts as just another teamup - this one should give plenty of great story beats and themes to play with, as well as plenty enough action for the peanut gallery.
• Of course he's a Troma guy, so we get a big-budget Swamp Thing movie.
• Themiscyra/WW prequel Paradise Lost as an all-girl GoT is going to get people hot under the collar for different reasons. (Good).
• Booster Gold series? Neat! Feels Fillion-friendly, but he's doing okay on Rookie and maybe they need someone younger. Who do you think?
• Waller. Yeah, I love Viola Davis too, but not sure where they can take her from here.
• Lanterns. Hopefully erasing the Reynolds fiasco forever, a move that Ryan would fully support.
• Brave And The Bold. Haven't read the original. From the description, not at all sure about how it's gonna play.
• Supergirl: Woman Of Tomorrow - again, haven't read, but a grimdarker SG doesn't sound as much fun.
• The one I'm least thrilled by is the big headliner: Superman:Legacy. I know it's the one every kid wants to play with growing up but there are more interesting characters in the toybox.
• They haven't dropped who Momoa is playing but got terribly excited about. Swamp Thing? Lobo? Someone else? Someone new?
  EDIT... oh... wait...
  ...sweet Freya in Asgard... 
  ...could they get away with Jason as Clark? Having run into the guy at a con, he literally has trouble fitting into a human world and was lovably socially awkward, though in a puppyish excited-about-all-the-things way. I wonder...

 

So they ain't out to sell lunchboxes and Lego sets. It's a much braver lineup than I'd expect.

But I'm not sure some of these play commercially, and there's plenty for culture warrior ragehowlers on all sides to get their teeth into. 

 

Whatcha think, superfriends?

Edited February 1, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Mr. Vee]

I shudder at Booster for dad joke reasons. I shudder at Brave & Bold cuz Damien and the whole thing about Morrison's Batman run being a 'favorite' (Keep Morrison on the weird niche stuff he's good at and out of the main books. For my money Batman never really recovered from that run.), but at least it's not a full series.

 

Glad to see Waller as she's probably my favorite comical booklet character and i like Davis's version. Lanterns, Authority and Paradise also sound interesting. The rest I could take or leave. 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

So, one of these flashy things just dropped...

 

 

...so does this mean that The Flash is Flashpoint (or being re-edited as such) and causes the universe reset? Or are we supposed to read it straight top to bottom?

[Captain Fabulous]

Yeah, so...

No Wonder Woman for at least the next 4 years. So much for being one of their "diamond" characters. Bonus points for turning the peaceful altruistic Amazons into vicious brutal scheming murderous twunts like what was on Game of Thrones. But hey, 3 Bat-verse and 2 Super-verse movies! So. yay? 🤬

Also, other than John Stewart and Supergirl his entire slate of main heroes are straight white men. So much for any kind of progressive diversity like Marvel.

Hugely disappointed. I expected so much more from Gunn.

[Captain Fabulous]

59 minutes ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 

...so does this mean that The Flash is Flashpoint (or being re-edited as such) and causes the universe reset? Or are we supposed to read it straight top to bottom?

The Flash movie was always meant to be Flashpoint, as a way of finally jettisoning the Snyderverse and rebooting whichever characters they decided needed to be, like Batman, Superman, and probably Wonder Woman. This was decided long before Gunn and Safran came in.

[Mr. Vee]

3 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Also, other than John Stewart and Supergirl his entire slate of main heroes are straight white men. So much for any kind of progressive diversity like Marvel.
 

 

Midnighter and Apollo are lovers in the comics. I'm not familiar with the rest of the Authority but presumably they're not all going to be cis white dudes. And I'd imagine the Amazon show will have the Bana-Mighdall Amazons and Nubia somewhere, plus y'know, no men. I highly doubt they're going to stick a whole rebooted universe out there with completely tone-deaf casting. 

[Captain Fabulous]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Vee said:

 

Midnighter and Apollo are lovers in the comics. I'm not familiar with the rest of the Authority but presumably they're not all going to be cis white dudes. And I'd imagine the Amazon show will have the Bana-Mighdall Amazons and Nubia somewhere, plus y'know, no men. I highly doubt they're going to stick a whole rebooted universe out there with completely tone-deaf casting. 

Which is why I said "main heroes", because we don't know who's in The Authority or Creature Commandos, and I don't consider Amanda Waller or the Amazons "heroes". With all the changes, retcons, and reboots DC's been making I have no idea what Nubia's current origin is, so no idea if she exists during the Paradise Lost timeframe. Unless the story is told in flashbacks (I really cannot see Gal returning to do this show in any capacity) we certainly won't see Wonder Woman, as she didn't yet exist (tho it's possible Diana might appear as an infant/child at some point). I think it's also safe to assume at least some of that show is going to take place before they get to Themyscira, so we'll likely see plenty of men, including Herakles and Zeus, at least in the beginning. But yeah, there should be at least *some* racial diversity among the Amazons like there was in the movies. But even with all that considered this first slate of projects is still overwhelmingly straight, white, and male.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[Mr. Vee]

Yeah I was just naming a few we know about off the top of my head. Having not cast a lot of this yet I just don't believe they're not going try to have a diverse group of characters, especially as they have barely any good will left.

[Captain Fabulous]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Vee said:

Yeah I was just naming a few we know about off the top of my head. Having not cast a lot of this yet I just don't believe they're not going try to have a diverse group of characters, especially as they have barely any good will left.

I want to give Gunn the benefit of the doubt, and I hope all my fears are unfounded, but things aren't looking so good from what he's revealed so far.

[Captain Fabulous]

31 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Looking at that poster, who the heck is Nupergirl?

Nuperman's cousin, Nara. 😉

[Mr. Vee]

I worry that Nupergirl's powers include letting you know when you need new glasses and/or a new monitor.

[Ulysses Dare]

I have to say, Creature Commandos really surprised me. Not one I would have expected DC to run with, even in animation. I wonder if the Universal monster faceplant had something to do with that decision.

[Techwright]

On 2/1/2023 at 5:12 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Thoughts:

• Booster Gold series? Neat! Feels Fillion-friendly, but he's doing okay on Rookie and maybe they need someone younger. Who do you think?
•  
• Lanterns. Hopefully erasing the Reynolds fiasco forever, a move that Ryan would fully support.
• They haven't dropped who Momoa is playing but got terribly excited about. Swamp Thing? Lobo? Someone else? Someone new?

 

Whatcha think, superfriends?

Actually, at 51 years of age, I think I'd rather see Nathan Fillion go live action as Hal Jordan, a character he's voiced repeatedly in the animated works.  Don't do Hal's origin story except perhaps in a brief flashback.  Make Hal the presiding Green Lantern for years now, and introduce Jon Stewart and any of the other Earth-born Lanterns as a second wave in the movie.  Sort of like the MCU taking the Hank Pym character and making him older than the cast of characters he traditionally hangs with in the comics.  This has the potential down the road of allowing Fillion to play both the hero and villain sides of the character with as much grit as he brought to Mal in the more intense moments of Serenity.  Hal can be funny at times too, though I'd rather them not take that to the degree that was done in the 2011 movie.  I do agree though that Nathan has the personality to play Booster Gold.  So does frequent collaborator Alan Tudyk for that matter.  But I feel like B.G. should be a younger character.  His vanity and inexperience suggest it.

 

I know Mark Strong always wanted to play Sinestro again, and if he's fit enough for the part at 59 years of age, I say give it to him.  I very much would like to see a strong Jon Stewart.  Michael B. Jordan springs to mind for the role, though maybe that's typecasting seeing his Marvel character was also special forces?

 

Momoa feels almost right for Lobo. Maybe 80 to 85%.  Lobo comes across much more brash and boisterous than I've ever seen Momoa, though I've not seen all his body of work.  Perhaps I'm still thinking of him too much in terms of his Stargate: Atlantis character.  But then, is that the type of challenge actors relish?  Creating a character that is different than perhaps the stock characters they've been known for?

 

I'm pleased that they've put Booster Gold up in the first wave of the reboot.  I really wish they'd do The Question, too, though.

 

I still have one burning question:  When are they going to make an Ambush Bug film?  DC needs an answer to Deadpool.   😛

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

5 hours ago, Techwright said:

I know Mark Strong always wanted to play Sinestro again, and if he's fit enough for the part at 59 years of age, I say give it to him.

I like Mark, professionally and personally, but he's everyone's go-to RentARotter (along with the equally infamous/hilarious Jason Isaacs) and he'll never be short of work.

Sinestro's potentially a meaty role and I'd like to see a more leftfield choice. (I mean, in the first WW movie, did you see David Thewlis coming as a Big Bad? Nah.)

 

Also, given it's a TV series with likely threats-of-the-week and bottle episodes, Larfleeze being behind assorted scams and the Star Sapphires showing up means you've got range for a variety of casting choices. 

 

Being a bit of a breadhead, my worry is that some of them are pure nerd fodder and not as "accessible" to the ticket-buying general public. Sure, most civilians had never heard of the Guardians before Gunn's movies came out, but that's the A-Team in Space (with a rodent as Face). It plays. The Authority plays into the general distrust of, er, Authority, but it's quite involved stuff. And Creature Commandos...?

 

Gunn dropped some of the books they're using as core source on his Twitter, and it looks like Apollo and Midnighter are front and centre for Authority, while he's picked the Alan Moore era for Swamp Thing. I doubt he'd get the Bard Of Birrrrmingham's blessing, but nice to show respect.

 

Straight question: is this lineup going to put enough butts on seats/streams on screens to make high value productions worthwhile?

Edited February 3, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Mr. Vee]

Ugh don't even mention an Ambush Bug movie as a joke. Was bad enough he got what miniseries he got in the comicals. Was ok as a guest appearance to annoy main characters here and there but the solo stuff is really painful.  Same could be said of Lobo really, but he's at least good in the cartoons.

 

I'd love if Larfleeze showed up somewhere but it sounds like the Lanterns show is a limited scope detective show. 

 

As far as the butts on seats/streams question - that's a toughy, as they seem to be banking on people wanting a DC MCU and having faith in Gunn to do it. But it seems like he's already trying to bring in analogs of stuff that wouldn't have worked were the MCU not already well established. And really as much MCU weariness as there is now it's not clear either bet is a particularly good one. Whatever is first out of the gate better be leagues better than Gunn's Suicide Squad. About all I can say for it other than 'meh' is it was way better than the other one and at least we got the Peacemaker show out of it. And of course there's the problem of the first movies out of the gate being things he's inherited. Blue Beetle's the only one I'm not actively dreading of the top row of that poster.

[Captain Fabulous]

I read somewhere that Chris Pratt might be up for Booster Gold.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

10 hours ago, Mr. Vee said:

at least we got the Peacemaker show out of it

Still haven't managed to see that (by fair means or foul) but want to. I'm still not sure Cena's a full-on actor yet, but the guy is fearless.

 

 

 

Out of the other "legacy" flicks:

Blue Beetle... not dreading, not seeing anything that would make me sprint to a theatre, let alone add whatever DC's UK streaming box turns out to be on top of Amazon, Netflix, D+ and NOW! TV.

Shazam 2: kinda liked the first one, second should be better with La Mirren and Liu in it.

Aquaman 2: not sure how this works post-Flashpoint, but maybe Arthur makes it into the new DCU.

And then there's Flash... well.

I have heard exactly how good the audience scores are for this flick.

It's still going to take a lot to square that with Ezra "I Was A Teenage Lecter" Miller. 

 

10 hours ago, Mr. Vee said:

I'd love if Larfleeze showed up somewhere but it sounds like the Lanterns show is a limited scope detective show.

That's kinda why I thought of him. Any nasty scam, greedy gangster, despicable theft, sinister corporation or reasonably average political party could lead Nemesis-style back to Larfleeze.

 

7 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I read somewhere that Chris Pratt might be up for Booster Gold.

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

10 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I read somewhere that Chris Pratt might be up for Booster Gold.

While I could see it, and he'd be good, I think that would fall under @ThaOGDreamWeaver's comments about filling the role with one who always plays the same parts.

 

Beside, I've hope against hope that someone will realize that Pratt could be the next Indiana Jones.  I realize that hope hangs by a thread finer than spider silk, but maybe this is the world in the multiverse where it happens.  😉

 

5 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 I'm still not sure Cena's a full-on actor yet, but the guy is fearless.

 

Out of the other "legacy" flicks:

Blue Beetle...

 

Aquaman 2...

And then there's Flash... well.

Cena - I still am not past the images of him suiting up in a battleframe suit portraying one of the main characters of the failed game Firefall (which the game didn't fail, the owners did. The game was glorious until the new ownership gutted it).  Cena had been hired to promote the game while it was still in early beta.  If he's lucky, no pictures still exist, though I've not checked the Wayback machine.

 

Blue Beetle - I'm open to the possibilities.  But what I don't want to see is Jaime Reyes as some "Yakky Duck" character running a motor mouth of shock at the battlesuit's antics.  Yes there will be discord between the two, but it can be handled with better writing choices.

 

Aquaman 2 & Flash - I'm wondering how much the off-screen antics of stars in these two will hurt their performance.  There's not been a lot of love for Amber Heard since the court case, and well, you already mentioned Ezra's ...um...situation.

 

As to whether this new DCU will succeed or not, well, it has always been the same thing in every franchise:  the script has got to be outstanding first and foremost.  Star Trek: The Motion Picture, for example, had the right stars and the best special effects money could buy at the time.  What success it had, though, came from fans desires to see anything Star Trek back on the screen.  It was a tepid film otherwise.  The real powerhouse was The Wrath of Khan, and it was so because it had a humdinger of a script as foundation.   This is not a new concept, but Hollywood seems to keep forgetting how crucial it is.  I could watch a movie with paper-mache monsters, cheezy spandex costumes, and good but unknown actors in the lead roles if the script were powerful.  The rest is icing.  Icing is important to the cake, but it is not foundational.  DC will need to figure this out like Marvel did in phases 1 to 3.  (Marvel might need to rediscover it in parts of their franchise as well.)

[Captain Fabulous]

I think Pratt could be a good Booster. I mean, it's not that different than Star Lord really. Pratt does do a good imposter syndrome. As long as Ford is willing to do more Indy I can't see them ever recasting the role. And by the time he finally hangs up the hat and whip, as ironic as it sounds, I think Pratt will be too old. I'm sure they'll look for someone in their late 20s/early 30s, and Pratt is already in his mid 40s.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I really don't care so much about what actors do in their private lives so long as they're not openly racist, anti-LGBTQ, or otherwise overtly evil. Is Miller a nutjob? Sure, but I don't care. Is Heard a nutjob? Maybe. Still don't care. I have to say I'm a bit disturbed by Levi's support of Jordan Peterson, but without more context I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. For now.

Although highly disappointed with this opening slate, I can't imagine Gunn is going to allow anything to be produced that's not top notch, so in that regard I think DC is in good hands. I'm more annoyed over what ISN'T being made than what is.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

6 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

As long as Ford is willing to do more Indy I can't see them ever recasting the role. And by the time he finally hangs up the hat and whip, as ironic as it sounds, I think Pratt will be too old. I'm sure they'll look for someone in their late 20s/early 30s, and Pratt is already in his mid 40s.

Indy 5 is the last Indy with Harrison: the man said at D23 "I'm not falling down for you again."

 There is quite possibly time travel (ergh) involved in Dial Of Destiny, so recasting could happen, but I'd prefer they leave it on a high.

 

Miller hasn't abducted anyone or trashed anything for the last few months, so if they can keep a lid on him (or a very heavy bouncer) it might fall out of the public eye enough by summer season. I think the Heard thing has mostly blown over now that case is done, but TBH I wasn't that impressed with the performance the first time round. Someone inert enough to have absolutely zero chemistry with the Momoa is probably not someone I'd want to cast, or get stuck in a lift with for any length of time.

Edited February 4, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Captain Fabulous]

9 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Indy 5 is the last Indy with Harrison: the man said at D23 "I'm not falling down for you again."

 There is quite possibly time travel (ergh) involved in Dial Of Destiny, so recasting could happen, but I'd prefer they leave it on a high.

 

Miller hasn't abducted anyone or trashed anything for the last few months, so if they can keep a lid on him (or a very heavy bouncer) it might fall out of the public eye enough by summer season. I think the Heard thing has mostly blown over now that case is done, but TBH I wasn't that impressed with the performance the first time round. Someone inert enough to have absolutely zero chemistry with the Momoa is probably not someone I'd want to cast, or get stuck in a lift with for any length of time.

Yeah, what they say and do are two different things. With the rapid advancement in de-aging and deep faking I wouldn't be surprised if the next Indy uses a young Ford-lookalike double that they put Ford's face on and then dub in his voice.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

17 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Yeah, what they say and do are two different things. With the rapid advancement in de-aging and deep faking I wouldn't be surprised if the next Indy uses a young Ford-lookalike double that they put Ford's face on and then dub in his voice.

Been there, done that for Indy 5. There are flashback and/or time-travel sequences to late-stage WW2 in which both Harrison and Mads are de-aged (see 0'40" to 0'55"), and they're pretty good.

I hope to Asgard I'm still looking anything like that good at eighty years old, let alone doing my own stunts.

But given how much time it would take to ramp up a sixth episode, might be time to let both Indy and Harrison retire gracefully.

Maybe even write a new hero for a new generation.

[Captain Fabulous]

11 minutes ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Been there, done that for Indy 5. There are flashback and/or time-travel sequences to late-stage WW2 in which both Harrison and Mads are de-aged (see 0'40" to 0'55"), and they're pretty good.

I hope to Asgard I'm still looking anything like that good at eighty years old, let alone doing my own stunts.

But given how much time it would take to ramp up a sixth episode, might be time to let both Indy and Harrison retire gracefully.

Maybe even write a new hero for a new generation.

Oh I know they're doing de-aging in the new one, but AFAIK it's still Ford's body. I'm talking about completely replacing him with a body double and just pasting in his face and voice. Hell, even AI voice replication synthesis is damned good right now, imagine what it'll be like in 3-5 years. You wouldn't even need Ford to record the dialogue, just pay him $20+ million for his visual likeness and voice training data.

[Techwright]

On 2/4/2023 at 1:21 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

But given how much time it would take to ramp up a sixth episode, might be time to let both Indy and Harrison retire gracefully.

Maybe even write a new hero for a new generation.

It's Lucasfilms, so it's also Disney.  Do you think they're going to let that cash cow go to pasture?  I can see a few years off, but I can't see Disney letting go of Indiana Jones permanently. 

There's one possibility that might allow them to have cake and eat it too:  introduce a new Indy actor, but also retain Ford.  Kind of like Leonard Nimoy in 2009's Star Trek reboot.   In the case of Indy, there's the major point in the TV show The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles (which I'll call "soft canon" though it was originally intended as canon, I'm told), that the stories of his past are told by a 90-year-old Indy.  Translated to the movies, that might allow Harrison Ford to take on the old storyteller mantel, while introducing his replacement.  Depending on Ford's health and, well, continued existence, they might be able to squeeze out a couple of films with this motif.

 

There is a theory out there that Indy's goddaughter in this film will be the focus of an Indy-like series of films going forward, though I'm not sure if the 1970s as a setting will hold the mystique and storytelling potential of the Nazi-era 1930s and 40s.  I for one might be interested in early Cold War-era films surrounding Short Round, Indy's kid sidekick in Temple of Doom.  It could bring an Asian lead to the larger Indy-verse and might focus on stories in Asia or the entire Pacific.  I'm merely guessing where S.R. ended up, since he's not mentioned again.  (I'd really like a cameo or some reference to him in this final film.)

[Mr. Vee]

He became a quirky inventor and found a large pirate treasure in the 80s.