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Intro to Trick Arrow Guide. Looking for feedback.


KaizenSoze
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  • KaizenSoze changed the title to Intro to Trick Arrow Guide. Looking for feedback.

Ice arrow doesn't lower resistance to resistance debuffs, it lowers the (de)buffs the enemy does.  So this means that any -to-hit they do will be weaker, alternately, it also affects any +to-hit they have.  You can see this in CoD as -Special as apposed to Acid Arrow which is -Res(Special)

 

image.thumb.png.82a937900f578d378e0d7219eaa3397d.png

 

Similarly, EMP Arrow does not do -Res(Special).  It lists it as -Boost... which I have no idea what that means, but looking at the child effect, it seems to be the same as the -Special that Ice Arrow does (just greater magnitude).  I loaded up a power analyzer and jumped into game to confirm this.

 

image.png.5c08e8e2e372127c257b670e0ad531cb.png

 

Acid Arrow shows up as the Resistances being debuffed, EMP Arrow does not show these.

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What this team needs is more Defenders

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8 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Similarly, EMP Arrow does not do -Res(Special).  It lists it as -Boost... which I have no idea what that means, but looking at the child effect, it seems to be the same as the -Special that Ice Arrow does (just greater magnitude).  I loaded up a power analyzer and jumped into game to confirm this.

From what I can tell, it's essentially just a Power Boost effect in reverse. So let's say I have a Hold with no enhancements slotted (so 100% Hold Duration). If EMP Arrow has -50% (don't remember the exact numbers), this would reduce my Hold duration to 100% - 50% = 50% in the same way that a +50% Power Boost would increase it 100% + 50% = 150%.

 

Overall, not very useful - the main purpose of the power seems to be the bubble.

Edited by Hjarki
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Flash Arrow - you should note that it's autohit in PVE. While I also like slotting Siphon Insight for the set bonuses, ToHit Debuff sets also work well since accuracy isn't required. Also, defenders, corruptors and controllers can all get Power Boost (not just masterminds).

 

Poison Gas Arrow - suggest slotting Call of the Sandman: Chance of Heal Self

 

Oil Slick Arrow - if you don't need the 6-piece set bonus, this can be frankenslotted. Since accuracy isn't required, I slot 3x dmg/rch plus 3 procs.

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Uunderdog - Radiation/Radiation Scrapper | Uundertaker - Radiation/Dark Corruptor | Uun - Martial Arts/Invulnerability Scrapper | Uunison - Gravity/Storm Controller | Uuncola - Ice/Temporal Blaster | Uundergrowth - Plant/Martial Dominator

Uunstable - Super Reflexes/Staff Fighting Tanker | Uunreal - Fire/Time Corruptor | Uunrest - Dark/Tactical Arrow Blaster | Uunseen - Illusion/Poison Controller | Uuncool - Cold/Beam Rifle Defender | Uunderground - Earth/Earth Dominator

Uunknown - Mind/Psionic Dominator | Uunplugged - Stone/Electric Brute | Uunfair - Archery/Trick Arrow Corruptor | Uunsung - Dual Pistols/Ninja Blaster | Uunflammable - Fire/Nature Controller | Uunflappable - War Mace/Willpower Brute

Uundead - Dark/Dark Tank | Uunfit - Water/Martial Blaster | Uunwrapped - Dark/Dark Dominator | Uunchill - Ice/Kinetics Corruptor | Uunpleasant - Energy/Energy Stalker | Uunbrella - Radiation/Radiation Sentinel | Uunsafari - Beasts/Traps MM

Uungnome - Nature/Seismic Defender | Uunsavory - Poson/Sonic Defender | Uunicycle - Broad Sword/Shield Scrapper | Uuntouchable - Illusion/Time Controller | Uunferno - Fire/Fire Tank

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Updated the guide to incorporate all the feedback.

 

@Hjarki EMP arrows makes an excellent alpha strike if you slot with Lockdown, the +2 hold proc pretty holds the entire spawn. Also, the debuff part of the bubble a good -regeneration debuff that can stack up to -1000%.

 

@Psyonico The -boost and debuff resistances parts of the guide need more. I'll have to get some more field testing. The -boost isn't very useful unless you are fighting Ghost Widow and her nasty hold all the time.

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On 2/20/2023 at 3:48 AM, Psyonico said:

Acid Arrow shows up as the Resistances being debuffed, EMP Arrow does not show these.

Yep. Confirmed myself too a couple of weeks ago when I was testing what worked well for sapping. 

 

Acid was the answer, it makes your end drain about 33% more effective (on the final figure). EMP didn't do anything 

 

Ice I think lowered their max end but in-game that was useless (97 end rather than 100). Was expecting more from it.

 

One thing the guide doesn't mention: Ice & Acid are good for proccing

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Only the debuff part of OSA is autohit. The ignited burn patch damaging attack is not, and can miss; this is all clearly listed in cod (which you link to at the top of your own guide) and visible in the combat log (under the power name "fire").

 

The lockdown proc is only 8s duration. Against +4's, that becomes ~4s. It is alright when used in the alpha strike as you describe so you can get a 2nd power off, but underwhelming in many cases.

 

Personally, I find the recommendations for slotting and sets disappointing. I think they reflect how you either do not know how to build for high rech and def simultaneously, or fail to see the value in high rech, as evidenced by your own builds and how you latch on to pacing of the turtle for ranged def but neglect ice mistal's song's rech and a damage proc. A proper discussion of slotting recommendations needs to include

  • Analysis of build goals and mitigation strategy (what rech to shoot for? what def and res to shoot for? what are the relative benefits of each strategy?);
  • What enhancement values the power needs to emphasize;
  • Comparison of sets based on their enhancement values, set bonuses, slot-efficiency, and procs in light of the above

Take your lackluster recommendation for ice arrow:

 

On 2/20/2023 at 4:41 AM, KaizenSoze said:

Slotting

All or nothing.

6 procs

Lockdown IO set.

 

You don't explain what either of these options do, when they are valuable and what they are supposed to accomplish. Here's an example:

  • 6x Lockdown has low ranged Defense Per Added Slot at only 0.75 DPAS and is rarely a first-choice set for a ranged softcap build. However when pursuing a R/aoe dual softcap or all-vector softcap its DPAS raises to significantly better levels.
  • 2x Basilisk's gaze has much higher DPAS of 1.25, with an option to get a rech bonus at 4x which may allow trimming rech bonuses elsewhere to reinvest in def. The catch is that as a level 30 set it has poor enhancement value which makes it weak in long base rech powers. It may need frankenslotting to prop up the rech enhancement which lowers its slot-efficiency.
  • 6x damage procs makes ice arrow a strong ST blast does good damage, but it needs to replace a weaker attack and/or fill up the attack chain to get the most value from it. It is good, for example, on controllers who have few options to get a strong ST blast early on if their primary does not provide it, or for AR's who do not want to fiddle with using Ignite as a T3 blast.

Similarly, you cannot just recommend any -tohit or accurate -tohit set in flash arrow (though I will give you credit for doing the bare minimum - mentioning the cloud senses proc disabling its ability to not aggro mobs):

  • 5x Siphon insight, for example, has low DPAS but is one of few sets that give SL def on non-melee non-taunt powers. That could be valuable for an SL, SLR or rainbow defense build because instead of spending slots muling KC in brawl they are gaining useful enhancement value at the same time.
  • 4x cloud senses has slot-efficient rech and some EN res. 6.25% rech is normally a 5/6-piece bonus. However it is a lv 30 set - see basilisk's gaze above.
  • 4x DWD has less rech but is a level 50 set and provides a lot more -tohit enhancement.

The three sets are actually very carefully balanced against each other and each is good in a different situation, yet all this nuance is lost when you blithely say "yeah, put a full set of tohitdebuff or accurate tohit debuff in it".

 

Your discussions of tactics, alternate uses of powers, and playstyle read like a corporate powerpoint presentation constructed by copy-pasting soundbites from cod. What the fuck does "regeneration debuff, two stacks" on EMP arrow even mean? "It provides strong -regen for 15s and a weaker -regen that lasts an additional 30s, which mids' does not show" would at least sound comprehensible.

 

Draw comparisons to other powers, for players that might have played them. Identify nonstandard or unexpected proc and power interactions. Describe how powers might influence the outcome of particular encounters or strategies. "Glue arrow can replace hoverblasting in a pinch if you want a different travel power." "Flash arrow neuters a spawn's tohit the way that fearsome stare or radiation infection might." "EMP arrow is also a location-based sonic dispersion. It can be used defensively as well as offensively." Sure, some of these can be inferred for people already familiar with the game but there is no harm in being comprehensive rather than assuming most readers will know what you mean.  ESP is not a powerset normal people have.

Edited by Zect
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