Why DFB is annoying

[SteelRat70]

From the perspective of the sort of person you're probably trying to "convince" to play more red:

* I do play my characters with a "mindset" and that is generally heroic.  I want to beat up bad guys, not be one.

* The maps and general environment in CoV is dark, dreary and depressing, likely by design.  I simply just don't like looking at them.

* Story content is very, very good, that I will say, but it's not enough to drag me over for any length of time.  I did play a fair bit of villain content (mostly solo) back on live and whilst I did very much enjoy the mission introductions from the contacts (truly some laugh out loud moments in there), what those contacts were actually asking me to do very rarely seemed to involve anything truly villainous - and by that I mean entirely self serving, regardless of collateral or consequences.  Conversely (and actually rather ironically), tip missions do have a much better sense of mindset => appropriate action (at least to me).  This could even just be an indication of story telling evolution at Paragon Studios, given the order in which each of the faction content was developed and introduced.

[SteelRat70]

6 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I didn't indicate you did.

I was suggesting that you recruit for the alternate low-level content that you suggested.

 I wasn't suggesting you had.  That's literally why I said "For reference" - to indicate a factual base point to ensure that we're both singing from the same song sheet, as the saying goes.

Yup.. that suggestion is the fairly common rebuttal to comments like mine and precisely why I explained why I tend not to do it.

 

6 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

But I do think you are hitting part of the issue here.

Players at level 1 are looking to get at least a couple of levels under their belts before they go to the Hollows or King Row, and that is generally to level 8 - at which point, I'm trying to get on a Posi 1 team for a good number of my characters.

I've often found that getting from 1 = 5 just by street sweeping in Atlas, and especially that bit to the west of Atlas Plaza that has a large number of Hellions packed together is a faster way to level than messing about standing waiting for people to get their collective asses in gear for a dfb.  Then off to KR for radios and a contact.  I'll admit the second half of that approach is slower in terms of XP / levelling because of the travel factor... but I'll take that over "no AoEs, Vahzi boss first!" ad nauseum.
 

 

6 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

At the same time, I can't see the point about complaining about people that are recruiting for teams simply because they aren't recruiting for the kind of content that you would like to play.

And that's fair enough and a common rebuttal (again) and why I explained the reasons why I prefer not to do that.  Honestly, for me CoH, is a chilled out, brain out way to unwind at the end of a working day.  Could I put together a team to run content that I preferred to run?  Of course I could.  If only I did that, would it make a jot of difference to the kinds of teams that would form at the times I play?  Probably not.  If everyone adopted my mindset, what would happen - actually pretty much what happens now.  A handful of people regularly putting teams together and being largely responsible for the kinds of content the whole community plays, which is largely PI radio missions, DFB, AE farming and a smattering of TFs, mostly Yin, or whatever the weekly TF is.

And the point is that the reason for that is nothing to do with the mindset of the people that run the teams, or choose to run the teams, but the way that the game is structured and the preference of people to follow the path of least resistance when it comes to maxing the volume of rewards against minimising the effort or time to achieve them.

 

6 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Sometimes that is based on what I feel "the need" for the server is (sub-50 and generally sub-35).

Often times that is DFB.

And you're not concerned by that?  A TF that is designed for characters sub level 10 and actually restricts power availability above that and that is your primary choice for sub 35 content?  If I've misunderstood what you mean, my apologies, but if not.. holy crap.

[UltraAlt]

45 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

Yup.. that suggestion is the fairly common rebuttal to comments like mine and precisely why I explained why I tend not to do it.

 

👍

 

48 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

If only I did that, would it make a jot of difference to the kinds of teams that would form at the times I play?  Probably not.

 

The Repeat Offenders sort of had a way around that.

They had multiple themed supergroups that ran at a set night of the week for a set time period.

If there was a time that you wanted to run every night, you might be able to find people that play during that time period that would team-up with you in a recurring basis.

 

51 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

A handful of people regularly putting teams together and being largely responsible for the kinds of content the whole community plays, which is largely PI radio missions, DFB, AE farming and a smattering of TFs, mostly Yin, or whatever the weekly TF is.

 

I'm guilty for some DFB and Yin and other task forces.

I don't PI radio or AE Farm.

 

I am somewhat hesitant about recruiting for mission teams as sometimes they turn into hunts.

 

But you are correct there, the "handful of people regularly putting team together" tend to be the same people doing it because other people aren't stepping up to lead.

 

54 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

And the point is that the reason for that is nothing to do with the mindset of the people that run the teams, or choose to run the teams, but the way that the game is structured and the preference of people to follow the path of least resistance when it comes to maxing the volume of rewards against minimising the effort or time to achieve them.

 

I lead DFBs for 3 reasons :

1) I like playing at level 8+ better than I do getting to level 8.

2) a good number of low level characters are standing around looking for something to do and/or asking for DFBs but don't want to lead

3) I'm against farming, so I can help provide content that players can team on at a low level and participate in, then I'm getting them to a level that they might learn to enjoy leveling with their character at that point as they have some powers to work with + hopefully getting them open to teaming in general.

 

Your example of Yin previously is really no more rewarding at that level than Posi 1 or Pos 2. However, I do think that they take about the correct length of time for a task force and that is part of my consideration. All three take about 30-45 minutes to run.

I'm not doing speed runs. If I know something is speed run, I don't join. I'll even quit some if I found out that I'm on a speed run, and it wasn't announced as being one.

I'm not concerned about the merits.

 

I like having fun with a PuG because the variables are always changing.

 

1 hour ago, SteelRat70 said:

And you're not concerned by that?

 

Nope.

I enjoy a PuG and, if other people enjoy a DFB, then I have no problem helping provide a fun experience for a group of players.

 

1 hour ago, SteelRat70 said:

A TF that is designed for characters sub level 10 and actually restricts power availability above that and that is your primary choice for sub 35 content?

 

I tend to run/lead the DFBs with sub-20 level characters. Sometimes I'll take a higher level bubbler in to help the team survive the vazh boss badge part. Sometimes if I'm playing a character that is a higher level, I'll switch down to a lower level character that I haven't played for a while to help fill a DFB tha someone is recruiting for.

 

When I get to 8, I try to get a Posi 1 going or join one, content that fits my character conception, or helping out on a DFB if someone has the call out.

By the time I get done with a Posi 2, I'm trying to get a Posi 2 going or join one, content that fits my character conception, or helping out on a DFB if someone has the call out.

By the time I get to 20, I'm looking to lead a Yin or join one, content that fits my character conception, or helping out on a DFB if someone has the call out.

after that, it's a mix and match of what is out there because I'm constantly switching alts/servers and making new characters.

 

In the end, I really don't care to much if my level is capped. 

As for the 50's that run lower level content, I personally would rather not have most of them on teams or to run with them. I've run into too many 50's with behavior that I just don't find enjoyable to deal with for one reason or another.

 

1 hour ago, SteelRat70 said:

If I've misunderstood what you mean, my apologies, but if not.. holy crap.

 

Okay, so I log in with character A for whatever reason. I get to the point that I'm looking for a team and nothing has popped up in /lfg

I look through the characters online on the server.

I see there are enough people that will probably run a DFB. I switch up to one of my lowest level characters on the server and recruit for it.

Next check out the 8+ range for Pos 1.

Then for Posi 2.

Then for Yin.

Most of the time there isn't enough characters free from level 30-40 to try to form anything at those levels. That is to say, they appear to be already on a team. That team may or may not recruit.

If none of that pans out, I figure out missions to run (I have some sol projects)  or alt-jump to log characters on the server before switching up servers.

 

I have a couple of 50's parked.

I don't intend to level any other characters past 49 at this point. I'll turn off the xp on any character that gets to that level (except maybe for one, because I want to slot a contagious confusion proc)

 

 

[SteelRat70]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

As for the 50's that run lower level content, I personally would rather not have most of them on teams or to run with them. I've run into too many 50's with behavior that I just don't find enjoyable to deal with for one reason or another.

hoo boy, do I ever hear that loud and clear!

All of this is fair enough I guess; it's just a difference in preferences.  Personally I prefer content in the 30s - that's the real sweet spot for me in terms of game play.  In terms of enjoying content via pug, that can of course happen at lots of different levels, but this speed boosted steam roller of death BAU situation we have right now does occasionally get rather tiresome, regardless of level.

[UltraAlt]

34 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

this speed boosted steam roller of death BAU situation we have right now does occasionally get rather tiresome

 

Luckly, I avoid most of that, but I have been known to speed boost other characters.

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:57 AM, SteelRat70 said:

I remember in the early days of HC before DFB was unlocked.  It was glorious.  Hollows, Kings Row, Skyway all having active mission teams even if they were just running radios.

It'd be nice to go back to that instead of "any DFB" in chat ad infinitum.

 

There was an issue that persisted in that you were forced to run the Hollows ad infinitum - especially before XP smoothing (Issue 9? 2008 maybe) - or you'd be stuck street sweeping in KR or Skyway which was boring.

 

The Hollows, IMO contains some of the very best content in the game (Frostfire is an excellent morality tale ruined by a shitty cut scene and his subsequent "redemption" in much higher content) and following it through to Atta is also very rewarding (but to do that successfully now you probably need to turn off XP for the full experience)

 

The problem was that however good the story was, with no realistic alternatives it became ubiquitous to the point of burnout and people would actively try to find alternatives. There was a serious need for Hollows competition but now it's just easy to breeze past it even without the DFB - Tip missions anyone?

 

As a side note, on the day of the sunsetting announcement a few of us who regularly played together ran the Frostfire arc as a kind of "memorial celebration" while we hoped against hope the game would be rescued. WE got our wish but in a way none of us ever imagined.

[ZemX]

5 hours ago, SteelRat70 said:

From the perspective of the sort of person you're probably trying to "convince" to play more red:

* I do play my characters with a "mindset" and that is generally heroic.

 

Which is fine, some do.  But most do not.  We wouldn't be having this thread at all if a majority of people were more focused on the story of the game and morality of their characters than they are at gaining the easy XP and lasting buffs of the DFB. 

 

I mean, that's the funny part about veering off on this red vs. blue tangent and then talking about morality.  The DFB is right there telling everyone that those incentives matter more than the quality of the content.  If they didn't, you'd still see more people running missions from 1-10 as they've added some even to Atlas that are far more interesting than the old creaky origin-based cookie-cutter "kill x" and "go fetch in other zone y" missions.

[SteelRat70]

21 minutes ago, ZemX said:

We wouldn't be having this thread at all if a majority of people were more focused on the story of the game and morality of their characters than they are at gaining the easy XP and lasting buffs of the DFB. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, ZemX said:

The DFB is right there telling everyone that those incentives matter more than the quality of the content

I agree... and for me, that's not only the sad part but a contributory factor to the live games closure.

[Xtypething]

13 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

CoH hadn't been released 20 years ago, let alone CoV, but I guess that's just a fudge on the timing. 

 

It is true that you couldn't play the villain archetypes as heroes until 5 years after City of Villains was released when City of Heroes: Going Rogue was released and the alignment system was added to the City of Heroes. By that point, City of Villains had been merged into City of Heroes and City of Heroes: Good and Evil edition had been released and everyone that had City of Heroes or City of Villains that did not have the other were grandfathered in to the other game

 

 

Rounding. 19 years rounds up to 20. 

 

It's good to know that what I experienced was true. What a relief! 

 

[Ironblade]

13 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

The Hollows, IMO contains some of the very best content in the game (Frostfire is an excellent morality tale ruined by a shitty cut scene

OMG that's my favorite cut scene.
Frostfire: "I was once like you.  I too thought the world was simple."
Lackey: "Yeah, simple."

Frostfire: "Shut up, you moron!"

 

And let's not forget the ice slides.  🙂