Demons/Thermal build guides

[Scarlet Shocker]

This seems on paper like it's a match made in heaven (metaphorically speaking) - that whole demons/hellfire thing going on etc etc

 

I'm a big fan of Thermal and I've had a lot of fun on Reunion with my Demons/Cold - and I wanted to play a solid MM on Excelsior - I'm working on a couple currently but there seems to be little love for that particular combo here. I sense that Thermal is a bit underrated - but I love it; great shields, heals, a bit of control and a massive debuff. Perhaps too much of an "all-rounder" set to excel at any single thing but high survivability in teams or solo. Also it should pair well with the -Res of the Demons.

 

I'd love comments/thoughts/suggestions etc.

[Meknomancer]

Its not that thermals a bad set, although i do consider it a bad set in comparison to just about anything else mostly because the other secondaries will do whatever thermal does but better, its just a middling set. Yes it has heals and buffs and debuffs, its just that the heals arent as good as pain/emp, the buffs arent as good as cold/ff (especially now we got those page 5 changes to some mm sets) and the debuffs are just not as good as any of the other sets that debuff, cold/dark/traps/trick arrow- i'd even put storm and time above thermal as a debuffing set. So its left sitting in the the secondary pack as a sort of good at everything but not great at anything set. 

 

I have a demons/thermal and necro/thermal, necro pulls ahead now that page 5 changes are in but they are both good for solo/team play and if you get stuck they can take on av's/gm's/tf's if you are alone, they just don't do it as well as anything else. Thermal just feels a little awkward to play, which can be a good or bad thing depending on your playstyle-it forces you to play at the back and send pets in as it has nothing like arctic fog/steamy mist/shadowfall/force field gen to bump your own defence and resists. As a player that wants to jump in and take the alpha in place of the pets and sit in the middle of the mob and spam attacks thermal is completely counter intuitive to the way i play so in that respect it is a unique set and i do enjoy it occasionally. I just wish the debuffs had a shorter recharge on them so they could be used more often, i think that would push the set up to match the others.

 

 

[tjknight]

I like thermal, it provides damage resist shields which are hard to come by.  Any pets sets with enhanceable damage resistance are going to benefit from. Also, late games benefit from it too, since + defense is plentiful, but extra damage resistance is harder to come by. YMMV. 

 

My Necro/Thermal ends up having some very sturdy pets, even more so after the pet updates last issue. 

[Scarlet Shocker]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

@tjknight kind of sums up how I feel. I think there's also a few other debuffs I can bring to the party from pool and APP/PPP powers to make up for anytthing Thermal is missing and it does give a nice kind of thematic thing.

 

I've tried necro a few times (should I rephrase that?) and I've never really gotten on with it. Can anyone point me to what changed to improve it?

[StrikerFox]

1 hour ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Can anyone point me to what changed to improve it?

 

Screenshots for the Necro changes from the i27.5 patch notes below. 

 

Demons/Thermal is a great pairing. Pets can get +90% capped resistances to S/L/F/T. Around +60% to C/E/N and +35% to P. Close/equivalent to Tank/Brute level res. Hopefully the Thermal/Ember heals are enough to supplement their lower HP pool. In most cases, Demons/Thermal should be more survivable than softcap defense pets.

 

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

That's interesting. I think I have a Necro somewhere languishing so I might see if I can trot him out.

 

Thanks for the thermal info. I knew it could be good but not quite as good as that sounds

[StrikerFox]

45 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Thanks for the thermal info. I knew it could be good but not quite as good as that sounds

 

Those resist percentages I listed are the pet's inherent res + Thermal Shields + Ember Demon Shields + Sovereign/Expedient/SMoS IOs.

 

Having cap resistances to various damage types is phenomenal. 90% res is equivalent to softcap def.

 

Say you have 1000 HP and an even con enemy is hitting you for 100 damage per hit. He would have to hit you 10 times for you to die. 50% chance to hit/miss makes it an average of 20 attacks to defeat you.

 

+45% def would mean you're being hit 5% of the time so on average, he would attack 200 times before you fall. 

 

+90% res would mean damage is cut down to 10%. So instead of 100 pts of dam/hit, you're taking 10 pts. For the enemy to defeat you, he would need to hit you 100 times. Include the inherent 50% to hit/miss, it averages to 200 attacks to kill you. The same as softcap def.

 

Slotting Edict, CtA, SCotMM and Maneuvers can boost +res pets paired with +res secondaries ahead in terms of pet survivability VS specific damage types. S/L being the most common which Demon pets should be capped at.

 

I would probably build for MM survival on Demons/Thermal. Recharge to get HoE, Heat and Melt up as often as possible. Demons, Thugs and Beasts are probably next on the docket for an upgrade. Don't fall in love with your build too much as a new patch could change alot. 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by StrikerFox

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, StrikerFox said:

 

I would probably build for MM survival on Demons/Thermal. Recharge to get HoE, Heat and Melt up as often as possible. Demons, Thugs and Beasts are probably next on the docket for an upgrade. Don't fall in love with your build too much as a new patch could change alot. 

 

 

That's always a risk but I'm with it. Do we know for certain if/when?

 

If you have a practical build here I'd love to see it

[StrikerFox]

I'm guessing next patch. Heavy emphasis on "guessing."

 

At work right now, will see what builds I got when at home. My personal Demon/Thermal build isn't optimal. I really only team with it and it's not solo friendly.

[StrikerFox]

I'm trying to make a good build for Demons/Thermal but every single one just has massive holes in it. Build I'm using really isn't solo friendly and does excellent when it has 0 aggro. Haha! My MM couldn't solo his way out of a brown paper bag. The papercuts would bring her down.

This build is a tankermind style. Def/follow and Provoke. OG to stun a few. Try to outheal the incoming damage. One small purple inspira to softcap melee. If cycling Forge among pets frequently, maybe swap the slotting with Tactics.

There are some IOs boosted to +5. Hasten, Maneuvers, Dark Embrace and some of the pet's.

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[Xandyr]

I agree with what's been said for the most part. Personally, whether I'm playing an MM or a Tank, I love to see a Thermal on the team. Most players stress and push as hard as they can to soft cap their defenses, that they kinda forget about Resists. 

 Thermal isn't the "best" , but it has a lot going for it. Every secondary is gonna have some things that stick out, but that doesn't mean you should give up on Thermal. It DOES pair well with Demons. 

  I would suggest, as mentioned, get the pet uniques ASAP (+resist, +defense). Also take Maneuvers, Tactics, and Assault. And of course Hasten to speed up your buggs/debuffs/HoE.  And team. Teams will, in my experience, enjoy having a Thermal.

 I was on my Necro/FF on a team, and had several teammates state that they love seeing a FF'er on the team. Same will apply to Thermal.

[Sorena]

I'm a little late to the party, but I will add my two cents. I have a Demon/Thermal and absolutely love her. With fire shields and IO's, the pets are very well protected from damage. She can solo just about anything, including Zone GMs when you're bored. Here is the build I run with if you want an idea of what to do. If there is a difference in performance compared to other sets, I haven't felt the difference honestly. I went with Demon Lore Pets, too XD It all meshes together nicely.

Lucy - Thermal - Mastermind (Demon Summoning).mxd

Edited May 4, 2023 by Sorena

[Dixa]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:34 AM, StrikerFox said:

 

Screenshots for the Necro changes from the i27.5 patch notes below. 

 

Demons/Thermal is a great pairing. Pets can get +90% capped resistances to S/L/F/T. Around +60% to C/E/N and +35% to P. Close/equivalent to Tank/Brute level res. Hopefully the Thermal/Ember heals are enough to supplement their lower HP pool. In most cases, Demons/Thermal should be more survivable than softcap defense pets.

 

 

 

demons/thermal - with no incarnates - was the only mm powerset combo i was able to do the maria jenkins av arc at +3/4 without losing a single henchmen. note that +3 still gets you level 54 AV's. You would need incarnates to deal with 4/8. it's probably possible to re-create this with mercs using any secondary that has both heals and +defense and enough recharge to keep serum downtime to a minimum. Like thugs, demons has a recharge pet that can be used to just park all of the pet def/resist aura uniques opening up slotting opportunities for the henchmen. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Dixa