Scrapper ATOs in Battle Axe?

Cutter · April 10, 2023

I never played BA back on live. I am slow-leveling a /BA tanker and quite enjoy the crunch, so I thought I'd try it on a scrapper to see how it feels there. I found the dumbest name ("a ninja with an axe") and had to run with it.

I've looked through some of the most recent BA-related posts and am not seeing much consistency in builds or ATO placement. Is there a generally accepted ATO wisdom for this primary after the rework?

Thanks!

Uun · April 10, 2023

The ATO that matters is Critical Strikes (specifically, the proc). It increases the chance for a critical hit by 50% for 3.25 seconds. You want to slot this in the power you use before your heavy hitter. Depends on your attack chain, but I would probably slot it in Gash.

The Scrapper Strikes ATO provides a global bonus (not a proc) and can be slotted in any power. Because it provides a lot of +recharge, I like to slot it in a power with a long recharge. I would probably slot it in Axe Cyclone, Cleave or Pendulum.

Cutter · April 10, 2023

1 hour ago, Uun said:

The ATO that matters is Critical Strikes (specifically, the proc). It increases the chance for a critical hit by 50% for 3.25 seconds. You want to slot this in the power you use before your heavy hitter. Depends on your attack chain, but I would probably slot it in Gash.

The Scrapper Strikes ATO provides a global bonus (not a proc) and can be slotted in any power. Because it provides a lot of +recharge, I like to slot it in a power with a long recharge. I would probably slot it in Axe Cyclone, Cleave or Pendulum.

Thanks, that's very useful info!

Re: attack chain & slotting into Gash if I may... the few builds I've seen posted all seem to skip Gash. Looks like ST chains are some combination of Chop > Swoop > Cleave > epic blast? Is that the general idea? Or should Gash be taken and slotted up as well (or instead of one of those)? All in your opinion of course.

Uun · April 10, 2023

1 hour ago, Cutter said:

Re: attack chain & slotting into Gash if I may... the few builds I've seen posted all seem to skip Gash. Looks like ST chains are some combination of Chop > Swoop > Cleave > epic blast? Is that the general idea? Or should Gash be taken and slotted up as well (or instead of one of those)? All in your opinion of course.

With that attack chain, I would put it in Swoop. I haven't done the math of Gash vs. epic blast. Make sure you're looking at current builds - BA was revamped in October and all the cast times were shortened.

nihilii · April 10, 2023

I've got mine in Cleave.

This way, I do

Cleave -> Pendulum (crit) -> Axe Cyclone (crit) for AoE

and

Cleave -> Swoop (crit) -> Gash (crit) -> Chop for ST

or

Cleave -> Swoop (crit) -> Axe Cyclone (crit) for a mix of ST on boss and AoE on mobs

Optimized for convenience more than anything, but I like the results!

Cutter · April 10, 2023

Great advice both of you, thanks! Looks like I need to find a space in my pick order to grab Gash, at least to try it out. Only L17 now so it shouldn't be too much of an issue I hope. (So far I've been relying on the prestige attacks to fill out my time between Chop and Pendulum activations.)

SomeGuy · April 10, 2023

I have the scrapper ATO2 in Cleave. Works...well to say the least.

I just slapped the ATO1 set and proc in Whirling Axe (or whatever it is called now).

This is my entire build:

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.6
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Technology Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Battle Axe
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Chop
Level 1: Brawl
Level 22: Double Jump
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------

(A) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage
(39) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
(39) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
(40) Gladiator's Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
(40) Empty
(40) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 1: Alpha Barrier

(A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
(3) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
(3) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
(25) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance

Level 2: Gamma Boost

(A) Miracle - +Recovery

Level 4: Proton Armor

(A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
(5) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
(5) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
(15) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance

Level 6: Build Up

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
(7) Adjusted Targeting - Recharge
(7) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance
(17) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(17) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance/Recharge
(50) Adjusted Targeting - Endurance/Recharge

Level 8: Swoop

(A) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
(9) Hecatomb - Damage
(9) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
(11) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
(13) Gladiator's Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
(13) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 10: Fallout Shelter

(A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
(11) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 12: Combat Jumping

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(39) Kismet - Accuracy +6%
(45) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 14: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(15) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 16: Radiation Therapy

(A) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
(23) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
(25) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
(45) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage

Level 18: Whirling Axe

(A) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus
(19) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(19) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Recharge
(21) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(23) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(45) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage

Level 20: Beta Decay

(A) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
(21) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff
(43) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff

Level 22: Super Jump

(A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 24: Boxing

(A) Empty

Level 26: Cleave

(A) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
(27) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
(27) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
(37) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff
(37) Superior Critical Strikes - RechargeTime/+50% Crit Proc
(37) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 28: Particle Shielding

(A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
(29) Preventive Medicine - Heal
(29) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
(34) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
(34) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
(36) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance

Level 30: Tough

(A) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
(31) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
(31) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
(31) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 32: Pendulum

(A) Obliteration - Damage
(33) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(33) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(33) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(34) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
(46) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 35: Weave

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(36) Red Fortune - Defense
(36) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance

Level 38: Meltdown

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(46) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 41: Moonbeam

(A) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
(42) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
(42) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
(42) Gladiator's Javelin - Chance of Damage(Toxic)
(43) Sting of the Manticore - Chance of Damage(Toxic)
(43) Decimation - Chance of Build Up

Level 44: Shadow Meld

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 47: Maneuvers

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(47) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
(47) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

Level 49: Assault

(A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 1: Critical Hit

(A) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
(46) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage
(48) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance
(48) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(48) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Run Speed IO

Level 2: Rest

(A) Empty

Level 1: Swift

(A) Run Speed IO

Level 1: Hurdle

(A) Jumping IO

Level 1: Health

(A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance

Level 1: Stamina

(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End

Level 49: Quick Form

I don't see the logic in taking Gash, but hey, you do you.

But yea, you aren't gonna want to bother with Gash in a ST (or AOE) rotaion. ST rotation is dumb simple. Cleave - Swoop - Chop. Or Cleave - Snipe - Swoop - Chop whatever if you take a Snipe.

I can't comment and Gash's ability for filing a gap leveling. That seems like a smart move. But at 50 once you have some sets? You won't need it.

Edited April 10, 2023 by SomeGuy

Cutter · April 11, 2023

Thanks for the insights there, and the build to poach from. I expect I will take Gash while leveling and then see how it all feels come 50 & shinied out.

nihilii · April 11, 2023

10 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

I don't see the logic in taking Gash, but hey, you do you.

Cleave is 15s base rech. To chain Cleave -> Swoop -> Chop without gaps, you'd need to be at the recharge cap.

Cutter · April 11, 2023

8 hours ago, nihilii said:

Cleave is 15s base rech. To chain Cleave -> Swoop -> Chop without gaps, you'd need to be at the recharge cap.

Oof, that feels rough. Good to know tho! Definitely sounds like a 4th ST attack is in order somehow, either Gash or an epic blast.

SomeGuy · April 11, 2023

Yeah, that's why at the end of my post it doesn't make sense to me take Gash once you're 50 with sets. Leveling? It probably makes sense since you need a filler. BA is a good set. Fun and good performance. And weapons just look cool IMO.

Yomo Kimyata · April 11, 2023

I always go with Cleave. It's got a good proc rate, and if you are fighting three or more enemies it's practically guaranteed. You get enough time for the proc to be active on the next attack, and possibly the next two if you choose wisely.

I also always skip Gash, even when levelling.

nihilii · April 11, 2023

Even with sets, Cleave -> Swoop -> Chop chain is hard to run. We need +400% rech. Perma FF proc + 100% global recharge + 100% recharge in power still falls short. For a self-sufficient character, Gash must be replaced with an epic snipe.

Gash deals slightly more damage than epic snipes with a slightly faster animation, while consuming less end and needing much less recharge. This lets us replace FF procs with extra damage procs everywhere.

On the flipside, we lose on the flexibility of less resisted damage type and range. I find range less of a concern than on usual melee characters given that Axe has Cleave, but admittedly that's a matter of taste. The snipe also gets an Apoc proc and a BU proc.

Here was the driving logic for my own choice:

- would rather keep beautiful axe concept pure of epic snipes (honestly, the prime motivator)

- /nin secondary (-> Shadow Meld is less useful than on some other secondaries)

- want to be exemplar friendly (-> Gash means full attack chain at lvl 22)

- want to avoid reliance on incarnates even at lvl 50, for challenge stuff that disables it (-> Conserve Power is a great help for end management)

- in incarnate settings, no Ageless reliance lets me have Barrier rather than Ageless

To me Gash seems viable on a finalized build. At least it lets me achieve my specific goals.

Edited April 11, 2023 by nihilii

ClawsandEffect · April 18, 2023

If I'm chasing typed defense I like to split the Scrappers Strike set 3 and 3 between 2 different powers. You can get the other bonuses elsewhere, but when it's Superior getting a 10% S/L defense boost for the cost of 3 slots in 2 powers is pretty hard to pass up.

Not as useful if you're running a positional set though.

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