A better Night Widow T9 poll

[KaizenSoze]

I'll admit my biases upfront. I hate hate hate Night Widow Psychic Scream for several reasons. Looking for feedback on alternatives. Please, keep in mind I am only talking about Night Widows, not Fortuantas.

 

Reasons for hating it.

• Narrow cone on a melee orientated toon as the T9 attack. The capstone power for the AT.
• Long cast time 2.67 seconds
• Weak base damage
• Doesn't proc well to make up for the weak base damage
• Secondary effect is not helpful in PvE

Edited April 24, 2023 by KaizenSoze

[Wavicle]

I just skip it. Night Widows have plenty of good powers to choose from.

[Rudra]

There are lots of T9 powers I skip. However, I don't see Psychic Scream as being bad. I'm still trying to get my Widow from Live back up in levels, but my Live build called for me to take it. It is set to be 6-slotted. 5 Ragnaroks, including the KD proc, plus the Overwhelming Force KD proc. Between -50% recharge for 10 seconds to enemies, chance for KD, and being able to use it every 6.22 seconds, it works for me. Sure, for a moderate damage attack, it does light damage, but (turns out it is a light damage attack according to CoD. So Mids calling it a moderate damage attack is wrong.) It still worked for me back on Live. At least I'm pretty sure it did since I never changed the build to remove it. I'll get back to you when my Widow gets it again.

 

Though it should be pointed out all the psychic attacks for the Night Widow seem weaker than expected. Probably because they are melee focused. Mental Blast is also a moderate light damage attack (CoD says light, so going with CoD over Mids), is single target as opposed to AoE (cone), and does 86.5% of the damage that Psychic Scream does. (Edit again: And while it is listed as available at level 1, you can't get it until you go Night Widow. So it is only available at level 1 as part of a respec after reclassing into Night Widow. So I'm still treating it as a later level power.) So I'm thinking the lighter than expected damage is intentional since the Night Widows more focus on slicing and poisoning their foes.

 

Edit: Also, while I am not adverse to the power getting a potential buff, I am most definitely against replacing it.

 

Edit yet again: I'm also only counting Psychic Scream as a T6 power. Since it is the 6th of 6 powers in the Night Widow tree. As opposed to the 10 powers in the Fortunata tree. And is available 4 levels earlier than the Fortunata's Psychic Wail of DOOOOOOOOM!!!!!

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Rudra
Edited after all other edits to correct Mental Blast to a light damage attack as per CoD.

[KaizenSoze]

6 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I just skip it. Night Widows have plenty of good powers to choose from.

The problem is that isn't really true, Night Widows have not one, but two problematic powers. Psychic Scream and Eviscerate, short melee cones do not work well on ATs w/o taunt and you know my complaints about Psy Scream.

 

Then there is Smoke Grenade is very situational. So, out of the six Night Widow training specific powers, two have performance issues and one is situational.

[SeraphimKensai]

Not saying it needs to be changed as I find the melee attacks definitely make up for it, but what about replacing Mental Blast and Psy Scream with Dark (Night) themed powers. Perhaps Gloom and Soul Drain?

[KaizenSoze]

55 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Not saying it needs to be changed as I find the melee attacks definitely make up for it, but what about replacing Mental Blast and Psy Scream with Dark (Night) themed powers. Perhaps Gloom and Soul Drain?

Not against the idea, but it doesn't make sense in terms of AT lore. I don't think Arachnos uses dark powers, I am probably forgetting one, but in general there are no dark powered mobs at this time.

 

In reality, most Forts/NWs take Gloom, because it's so good.

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

The problem is that isn't really true, Night Widows have not one, but two problematic powers. Psychic Scream and Eviscerate, short melee cones do not work well on ATs w/o taunt and you know my complaints about Psy Scream.

 

Then there is Smoke Grenade is very situational. So, out of the six Night Widow training specific powers, two have performance issues and one is situational.

How is Eviscerate a short range cone? It has the 7 feet range of every other melee AT attack and it has a 90 degree arc. It may not be a PBAoE (circle) like some other melee AT attacks, but it is not a short range cone as far as I can tell.

[KaizenSoze]

18 minutes ago, Rudra said:

How is Eviscerate a short range cone? It has the 7 feet range of every other melee AT attack and it has a 90 degree arc. It may not be a PBAoE (circle) like some other melee AT attacks, but it is not a short range cone as far as I can tell.

Some melee cones are large, Energy melee is 10, which is why it is so much better at hitting more than 2 mobs. Staff cones are also range 9.

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=scrapper_melee.energy_melee.power_crash&at=scrapper

 

For awhile I thought it was me not the cones. Then I started this thread.

 

Basically, range 7 cones suck for hitting more than 2 targets unless they have a very very wide arc, like Shadow Maul's 120.

 

This is especially problematic for toons w/o taunt. Fold space helps, makes Eviscerate viable, but still awkward.

 

This is whyI think Eviscerate is problematic. It's not uncommon for claw scrappers to skip their version of Eviscerate. That says a lot.

[KaizenSoze]

5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Not saying it needs to be changed as I find the melee attacks definitely make up for it, but what about replacing Mental Blast and Psy Scream with Dark (Night) themed powers. Perhaps Gloom and Soul Drain?

I forgot about Ghost Widow which was silly, but even her own widow don't use dark attacks.

[SeraphimKensai]

2 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

I forgot about Ghost Widow which was silly, but even her own widow don't use dark attacks.

Ghost Widow was the only reason I suggested it as it fit the "night" motif better at least imo. If you wanted to play the melee aspect more could go focus and shockwave instead.

[PoptartsNinja]

The OG, unnerfed version of Psionic Shockwave. Night Widows are slightly more melee than Fortunatas so giving them a strong melee PBAoE at Tier 9 seems like the best choice.

[Rudra]

Okay, I finally got the Night Widow's Psychic Scream again. And out of the box? The only issues I have with it is the damage and recharge. However, I have yet to slot anything into it and my plan for when it is finally 6-slotted and fully enhanced (at level 50), is as a damaging soft control power. And it still looks like it will work well for that. I can't say for certain at this point because I just unlocked becoming a Night Widow on the character, but that is how it looks.

 

I think mobs have a bottom of 50% recharge, and that would mean this one power gets them to their floor in a single go, so it still looks more like a soft control primary effect power rather than a damage primary effect power to me. And using it like that? Should work well. I'm just wondering why as a -recharge power, it can't also take slow sets or enhancements.

 

(Edit: Maybe just adding a slow component to go with the -recharge could be enough.)

Edited April 26, 2023 by Rudra

[Lazarillo]

Psychic Scream feels pretty "iconic" for Night Widows.  IMO, give it a little buff and it'd be fine.  Although frankly, Night Widows are good enough that they probably don't need anything, even in powers that are maybe a little beneath the rest of their kit.  So the most important buff to give it would be to make it colorable.

[A.I.D.A.]

Replace it with Mass Levitation from Psi-Melee. 🙂