Mirrors Mastermind

[seebs]

I recognize this is probably deeply impractical, but it occurred to me and sounded fun to think about: How about a mirror-themed mastermind primary? The central conceit is that your summons are targeted powers, and they conjure suitable-tier images/imitations of the things you target. So, your T1 summon, you target an AoE, and it conjures what are essentially minion-tier creatures based on opponents in that area. Non-aggro, and then those are your T1 minions until they get defeated. T2 summon, similarly, can clone lieutenants.

I think to actually work this would have to have some way to do scaling from things, so if you target an AV with the T1 summon, you get three minion-tier things that, nonetheless, *look* like that. Or possibly just "three minions from that faction" if there's a relevant faction.

I can immediately see dozens of ways this would probably be impractical to try to implement, but wouldn't it be fun?

[Rudra]

It is an interesting take. However, a few things (mostly questions). First, MM pets are all lieutenants. And at lieutenant strength, you will find they are still very squishy. So summoning minions is more than likely just going to get your pets killed faster. Even if they were all summoned at your level instead of getting the -1 level shift per pet you can summon of that tier more than 1. Second, is what would the upgrade powers be? Pet upgrade powers are based on the summoned pets and grant each tier pet a specific set of additional powers. Third, how would those upgrade powers work on your pets since your pets will be different every time you summon them? Fourth, how would level differences between your MM and the target mob you are mirroring affect the summoned pets? Fifth, what would the MM's actual attack powers consist of? (I'm not seeing a theme I can figure out set attacks from, sorry.) Sixth, what would be the variable power, the one that doesn't match across the sets and gives the set its unique flair?

 

I'll probably think of more questions later, but those are the immediate ones that popped in mind.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

I could see this working as a controller powerset tbh.

[Doomguide2005]

Wonder if the same/similar codes as used by a Symphony controller for Reverberant might be useful here for answering at least some of @Rudraquestions?

[Saiyajinzoningen]

would the few personal attacks that masterminds get be.....

reflect ranged attacks?

[Rudra]

30 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

would the few personal attacks that masterminds get be.....

reflect ranged attacks?

That would leave them unable to attack melee opponents.

[seebs]

Hmm. For the non-pet powers, I think maybe light-based stuff, like illusion-controller's blind, or something?

 

I think I thought normal MM T1 pets were minion-strength, I guess I was wrong. Weak lieutenants would work fine too, I assume.

 

I think I was thinking somewhere in the vicinity of "pick suitable-strength things from the same mob pool", like, it doesn't have to be the exact model you targeted, just "if you target Hellions, you get Hellions" or something. I think they'd just ignore target level; they're going to be the level/strength normal for your pets, all we're picking from the enemies is models and power sets.

 

For upgrades: The upgrades could give fixed powers that are somehow light/shadow themed, maybe? So the unaugmented pets are a little random as to whether their powers are any good, but once augmented they get a little more predictable. Or, I suppose, you could in theory build per-faction mirror mastermind pet lists, including base and upgraded powers, roughly. That would be a lot of work but it'd be simpler work than trying to write the logic for doing it automatically.

 

Although I do love the idea of just using the models exactly, I also see difficulties. You're fighting an AV, so you summon all your pets, so you have six pets all of which are the same model as the AV, or something like that. I have no idea what happens if a mirrors-mastermind is fighting Hamidon... I think at some point, it might make sense to just say "yeah no you get random Devouring Earth models".

 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, seebs said:

Hmm. For the non-pet powers, I think maybe light-based stuff, like illusion-controller's blind, or something?

 

I think I thought normal MM T1 pets were minion-strength, I guess I was wrong. Weak lieutenants would work fine too, I assume.

 

I think I was thinking somewhere in the vicinity of "pick suitable-strength things from the same mob pool", like, it doesn't have to be the exact model you targeted, just "if you target Hellions, you get Hellions" or something. I think they'd just ignore target level; they're going to be the level/strength normal for your pets, all we're picking from the enemies is models and power sets.

 

For upgrades: The upgrades could give fixed powers that are somehow light/shadow themed, maybe? So the unaugmented pets are a little random as to whether their powers are any good, but once augmented they get a little more predictable. Or, I suppose, you could in theory build per-faction mirror mastermind pet lists, including base and upgraded powers, roughly. That would be a lot of work but it'd be simpler work than trying to write the logic for doing it automatically.

 

Although I do love the idea of just using the models exactly, I also see difficulties. You're fighting an AV, so you summon all your pets, so you have six pets all of which are the same model as the AV, or something like that. I have no idea what happens if a mirrors-mastermind is fighting Hamidon... I think at some point, it might make sense to just say "yeah no you get random Devouring Earth models".

 

If you want it to be "simple"? Then how about this?

 

T1: Light Blast (ST, light damage energy attack similar to Kheldians)

T2: Summon Impression (1-3 tier 1 pets, has Light Blast and Energy Smash attack. Light Blast appearance per Kheldians, Energy Smash appearance per Energy Melee.)

T3: Light Beam (ST, moderate damage energy attack similar to Kheldians)

T4: Improved Reflections (1st pet upgrade)

T5: Blinding Refraction (Cone, moderate damage energy blast with either -ToHit or Confusion effect)

T6: Summon Image (1-2 tier 2 pets, has Light Blast and Merciful Reflection. Light Blast as per Impression, Merciful Reflection is light-based ST heal.)

T7: Mirage Army (Summons 3 duplicates of the character as per Phantom Army. Balance considerations to be figured out.)

T8: Summon Mirror Beast (1 tier 3 pet, has Light Beam, Light Blast, and Energy Smash attacks.)

T9: True Reflections (2nd pet upgrade)

 

Summoned pets are visually the same as the target mob(s), but retain their own powers. So if Hellions are the enemies targeted while summoning, then they have the appearance of the Hellions, but have their own powers. (Edit again: Specific enemy appearances will most likely need to be randomly drawn from the faction, disregarding models of excessively large size. If only such models are available, then will function as if targeting a giant monster.) If used against monsters, giant monsters, or other non-conforming mobs including Hamidon, then summons a blank reflection as per the Phantom power for appearance.

 

(Edit: Also, to differentiate from other energy sets, the energy blasts will not have a KB component. Maybe a -ToHit component instead.)

 

Pet upgrades:

Improved Reflections:

   Impressions: Gain Light Beam and either improved Defense or Resist.

   Images: Gain Light Beam and either improved Defense or Resist.

   Mirror Beast: Gain Flash style Hold and either improved Defense or Resist.

True Reflections:

   Impressions:    I have

   Images:           no clue

   Mirror Beast:   what to give 

 

Bear in mind, this alteration of your proposal will still entail a huge amount of work for the devs and still doesn't answer the questions of how your summons will be able to target mobs to make mirror images of them or how you can summon when there are no enemies around to reflect.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to add quotation marks to "simple".

[seebs]

So, on the one hand, that could be fun. On the other, I love the idea of being able to get at least some power flavor from whatever you mirror. I just think it's probably technically infeasible on the available programmer budget.

 

So, the summons don't target mobs, you do. Possibly something as simple as "when you target the summon, it looks in the area for mobs to imitate, and imitates those". Possibly you can't summon if there are no enemies around, although that might be too serious a limitation to work out well in practice.

 

And yeah, I did start with "I recognize this is probably not feasible", I just thought it would be fun to think about, and who knows, maybe one of the devs is looking for something inspiring and hard to work on instead of something sane and this will catch their eye.