Warburg Nuke as an Incarnate Judgement Power

[Major_Decoy]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

No, it isn't. Not even. A facility is a construction in which entities act or live.

An entity is something that exists. A facility is also something that exists, but not all entities are facilities, so facilities are subsets of entities.

 

The unmanned missile platform is autonomous enough to keep you in sight at all times and fire upon your command. The Robotic Drone lores do pretty much the same thing. At the size of the projectiles being fired and the level of technology available in City of Heroes, you could Missile Justice raining from space with something the size of Siege.

[Nerva]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

No, it didn't. Excalibur was the link to the Well Hero 1 found.

Semantics, and makes no real difference, besides. It's a fact that Hero 1 wielded the powers of the Well as an Incarnate via Excalibur. Whether the Well gave it to him (and it was indeed given to him by an agent of the Well, specifically The Lady of the Lake) is irrelevant. You could say that Stephen Richter and Marcus Cole found the Well of Zeus and the waters they drank were the link, it wouldn't change the fact that they were granted power from the Well via some physical manifestation of it.

Sources:
https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Hero_1
https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Lady_of_the_Lake
https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Mender_Ramiel#Retrieve_the_stolen_Incarnate_container

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

The Well didn't grant Recluse leadership abilities. Arachnos existed before Recluse. Recluse took over from its previous leader. By the same means the previous leader may have taken over the organization and the same way Recluse's replacement, your character in one arc, takes over. By killing the current leader after showing the organization they have the power to stand above others. Not something the Well gives.

Arachnos may have existed before Recluse. Recluse made it what it is today. It was Recluse's leadership that made Arachnos go from one of many organizations hiding on the Rogue Isles, to becoming the authority on the archipelago.

I'm not saying that the Well gave Recluse Arachnos - I'm saying that the power, intellect, cunning, ruthlessness and indeed, leadership necessary to join Arachnos, rise through its ranks rapidly, and then take it over likely came from the Well. Prior to drinking from the Well of Zeus and opening Pandora's Box, Stefan Richter demonstrated no capability that would've let him defeat The Weaver, or even get close to him, let alone become one of The Weaver's most trusted minions and convince Red Widow to assassinate The Weaver on his behalf.

Prior to being an Incarnate, Stefan was a technocrat caring for an ailing mustard gas victim he took in after their parents died. Afterward, he joins Arachnos, becomes one of The Weaver's top lieutenants, becomes head of their entire operation in North America, and then swiftly decapitates and takes over the entire organization in one fell swoop. It was then that he started developing his signature glowing red eyes and spider limbs. He goes on to become the ruler of a criminal empire and from there the de facto ruler of a small nation. Even though the Well says that Recluse resists using the Well's power save as strictly necessary, I highly doubt that was all his own skills. If it was otherwise, he could've done it before the encounter with the Well of Zeus.

Further, the Well has demonstrated the ability to both control those who've accessed it directly, and subtly influence those who seek power, particularly its power.

Sources:
https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Lord_Recluse#History
https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Rogue_Isles#20th_Century_and_Beyond
https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Mender_Ramiel#Speak_with_Statesman/Lord_Recluse

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Trapdoor isn't really connected to the Well. Not like the other incarnates. He was an attempt by Recluse to find ways of achieving greater power without having to go through the Well.

Fair enough. That still leaves an immense breadth of abilities that the Well has demonstrated the ability to grant.

 

Edited April 28 by Nerva
Hero 1 didn't drink from it, yet was controlled all the same

[Bionic_Flea]

I'm not seeing a problem with a Warburg Nuke animation as an incarnate power.  Think of it like Gravity's Propel power - you just pulled a nuke from somewhere and tossed it at your enemies.  Or Marvel's Magneto doing the same via magnetism.

 

A little creative thinking can make just about anything work.

[Chance Jackson]

17 hours ago, General Idiot said:

Orbital Judgement. Core is the Warburg nuke, Radial is Antimatter's giant space laser from the fight in his trial. Or just make them two seperate ones.

 

Also on the subject of new Judgement powers, one from the old live forums I always liked the name of: Fleet Judgement - an oversized version of Propel that throws an entire ship at something.

Definitely 2 seperate ones

[Alchemystic]

While I'm no expert when it comes to Incarnate lore, I feel like it could be assumed that the missile could be created and operated by Incarnate tier genius? Not all incarnate power is direct and apparent after all, I like to think something like this could reflect that.

[Player2]

2 hours ago, Alchemystic said:

While I'm no expert when it comes to Incarnate lore, I feel like it could be assumed that the missile could be created and operated by Incarnate tier genius? Not all incarnate power is direct and apparent after all, I like to think something like this could reflect that.

I was going to suggest something like that, and/or using incarnate power to simply summon the echo of a past nuke into being like the lore pets... it's just a very short-lived "pet" that ends when it detonates.

[Rudra]

7 hours ago, Nerva said:

I'm not saying that the Well gave Recluse Arachnos - I'm saying that the power, intellect, cunning, ruthlessness and indeed, leadership necessary to join Arachnos, rise through its ranks rapidly, and then take it over likely came from the Well. Prior to drinking from the Well of Zeus and opening Pandora's Box, Stefan Richter demonstrated no capability that would've let him defeat The Weaver, or even get close to him, let alone become one of The Weaver's most trusted minions and convince Red Widow to assassinate The Weaver on his behalf.

Prior to being an Incarnate, Stefan was a technocrat caring for an ailing mustard gas victim he took in after their parents died. Afterward, he joins Arachnos, becomes one of The Weaver's top lieutenants, becomes head of their entire operation in North America, and then swiftly decapitates and takes over the entire organization in one fell swoop. It was then that he started developing his signature glowing red eyes and spider limbs. He goes on to become the ruler of a criminal empire and from there the de facto ruler of a small nation. Even though the Well says that Recluse resists using the Well's power save as strictly necessary, I highly doubt that was all his own skills. If it was otherwise, he could've done it before the encounter with the Well of Zeus.

Arachnos doesn't care how well you lead. You have incompetents like Black Scorpion leading 1/4 of Arachnos for all intents and purposes. All it takes is raw power. Your character in the Operation: Destiny arcs from the patrons is not an incarnate when you take half of Arachnos away from Recluse and basically end the world in the (series of) conflict(s). (The arc I can't remember, your character wasn't an incarnate when you took all of Arachnos and ended the world.) All it takes to be leader of Arachnos is 2 things: the ambition to do so and the sufficient power that the forces of Arachnos will perceive you as being the strongest.

 

Look, this discussion is off topic, so I'm stopping here. As for the OP itself, we're going to be arguing in circles. Like in every other thread. I oppose the OP as a Warburg missile, but am fine with it being some other form of attack. I gave my reasons why. So unless someone posts something that I feel requires a response, I'll leave the debate to others.

[GM Tock]

Couldn't agree more.  Back to Incarnate power ideas, thanks.

[BurtHutt]

I like this idea as another option for Judgement. Of course it'd have to have similar damage and area damage as the other powers.

 

The Seismic Blast power set has a nuke type power that could be like this proposed Judgement option. I also feel it could be a nice option and help maintain the theme of some toons. 

 

I don't think we need more Incarnate powers - just alternates to the ones we have might be cool. Nothing wrong with more choice.

 

I also think Lore would be much better if we could make customize the pet we summon; kinda like a sidekick. Allow us to customize the look then choose if we want range, melee, tank, buff etc. It would be a lot of fun!

Edited April 29 by BurtHutt