High level enemy group revamps

[KaizenSoze]

48 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

The KB resistance must be checked first; I noticed a SR character with no extra KB protection aside from Practiced Brawler was not affected by FREEM! at all.

 

Also, Practiced Brawler stacks unlike most status defense, which are toggles.

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

I observe many more instances of what @Ruin Mage describes (i.e. "roll it back, I hate it" *1) in suggestions than anything else except threads started by players (who often appear to be new-ish, at least to HC) making suggestions that appear to be a stray thought that crossed their mind about something that simply happened to peeve them. I don't consider it brigading when multiple people point out the triviality of suggestions or the (often) many ways too avoid being peeved. I also don't think it is brigading to defend HC dev decisions that have empirically been good for the game... e.g. most assets are fungible, with a limited number of Influence sinks that mostly don't affect in-game performance.

 

I don't disagree that you see a lot of what you're describing in the Suggestions sub-forum and would agree a lot of it is just noise.  What I was referring to earlier was specific to the BETA testing threads. 

 

1 hour ago, Ruin Mage said:

Thankfully, the Hard Mode content has four tiers of hardness and is only currently locked to: Aeon, Imperious, and Lady Grey.

 

Currently being the operative word in that sentence.  I've no doubt there's more coming, unless you feel that MLTF, LRSF and such aren't going to get the same treatment.

 

[Eiko-chan]

3 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

You had started two threads with similar, some might say identical, topics.  Both threads were getting responses from players.  So it seemed sensible to merge them so that all the commentary on the topic was on one page.

Except I started the second thread only after being directed to by a different GM. There was no need to merge threads. If you insist on directing where the responses went, closing the General thread would have been a better solution.

[Eiko-chan]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

I observe many more instances of what @Ruin Mage describes (i.e. "roll it back, I hate it" *1) in suggestions than anything else

For the record, the first page and a half of this thread were on the General forum, not the Suggestions Forum. My suggestion post started here: 

 

[ZacKing]

3 hours ago, Ruin Mage said:

However, there is very little evidence to support that we're heading towards a "WoW model"

 

The recent CoT and Council revamps.

 

2 hours ago, Ruin Mage said:

Bringing back the early pain of CoT to 45-50 was absolutely the right choice to make the group different.

 

The "early pain" comes from the lack of tools to counter their debuffs and status effects.  Fighting Concil and CoT at lower levels in Perez or the Hollows or ToTing is a lot different than fighting them at level 45+ when you've got most of your powers and slots.

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

I observe many more instances of what @Ruin Mage describes (i.e. "roll it back, I hate it" *1) in suggestions than anything else except threads started by players (who often appear to be new-ish, at least to HC) making suggestions that appear to be a stray thought that crossed their mind about something that simply happened to peeve them. I don't consider it brigading when multiple people point out the triviality of suggestions or the (often) many ways too avoid being peeved. I also don't think it is brigading to defend HC dev decisions that have empirically been good for the game... e.g. most assets are fungible, with a limited number of Influence sinks that mostly don't affect in-game performance.

 

Yeah, a lot of that in the Suggestions forum is noise, but I don't think that's what was meant.  As far as the beta feedback, I've definitely seen well presented feedback that wasn't "you suck!  this change sucks!" type feedback against changes that get hidden or shouted down or both.  There's definitely a white knight brigade ready to pounce on anyone who disagrees with a particular change.  More often than not and more and more recently, you're not able to even question other people.  Honestly, it's like watching a cult sometimes, at least to me. 

 

It's HC's server so they can run it however they want, and I totally agree HC has done some fantastic stuff and very much appreciate all the time and effort they put into this game. 

[tidge]

16 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

Yeah, a lot of that in the Suggestions forum is noise, but I don't think that's what was meant.  As far as the beta feedback, I've definitely seen well presented feedback that wasn't "you suck!  this change sucks!" type feedback against changes that get hidden or shouted down or both.

 

I am not saying true feedback doesn't appear, I'm saying that I witness a very large chaff-to-wheat imbalance.

 

One potential sign that a suggestion/feedback is started in good faith, with specific merits that can be evaluated is IMO that it doesn't degenerate into arguments about logical fallacies, or about how the forum moderators did somebody wrong. See also...

 

20 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

 There's definitely a white knight brigade ready to pounce on anyone who disagrees with a particular change.  More often than not and more and more recently, you're not able to even question other people.  Honestly, it's like watching a cult sometimes, at least to me.

 

 

1) I don't know why "questioning other people" even comes up in the suggestions game forum, unless this is a specific comment along the lines of "I have a question only a dev can answer". 

 

2) I think you underestimate how infrequently /jranger is used, especially compared with the first several years of Homecoming. Frankly, often when /jranger is used, someone else almost immediately comes along and explains why the suggestion probably merited a /jranger. See "Bring back Prestige"

 

 

 

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

As far as the beta feedback, I've definitely seen well presented feedback that wasn't "you suck!  this change sucks!" type feedback against changes that get hidden or shouted down or both.

Well, at least the mods are no longer banning people for posting feedback in the feedback threads. So it's getting better in that regard.

[Shin Magmus]

     As one of the people who actually plays "Hard Mode" stuff (it's Advanced Mode now): it's not that hard.  Every single difficulty below 4*, for all 3 TFs, excluding very implicitly obvious optional superboss challenge stuff, can be reliably PUG-completed on Everlasting... the RP casual server.  I've literally never failed any tier of starred ITF, and although I have been on teams that failed 4* LGTF... the leader was very new to it and I approached their team with the assumption of making it a learning experience rather than a completion.  That team that struggled with 4*, would've cleared 3* and been fine.  The perception of the content is more difficult than the execution of the content.  It's also 1: more engaging and interesting than the rest of the game and 2: more profitable to incentivize players to do it for the huge bonus Reward Merits, Empyrean Merits, and Prismatic Aether.

 

     I'm consistently shocked when people bring up Advanced Mode stuff unprompted on other forum discussions about balance: I know the people complaining about it don't even actually play it.  I took my triple-nerfed Rad/Fire Brute to a 3* PUG ITF and basically got carried: this is a Brute who has literally no place on any endgame anything after being eviscerated by the balance team... 0 deaths, it's not that hard.

[Eiko-chan]

4 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

      I'm consistently shocked when people bring up Advanced Mode stuff unprompted on other forum discussions about balance: 

FTR, I don't play Advanced Mode stuff, do not care to, and am not commenting on the content contained therein. From some of the discussions I've seen going around it seems like it's all a completely different game from the core game, and if there's people that want to play that, more power to them. No skin off my back. 
As long as all those things remain inside Advanced Mode and don't bleed out.

Edited May 23 by Eiko-chan
My dumb brain wrote "Advance" instead of "Advanced". Twice.

[Shin Magmus]

4 minutes ago, Eiko-chan said:

FTR, I don't play Advanced Mode stuff, do not care to, and am not commenting on the content contained therein. From some of the discussions I've seen going around it seems like it's all a completely different game from the core game, and if there's people that want to play that, more power to them. No skin off my back. 
As long as all those things remain inside Advanced Mode and don't bleed out.

"I haven't tried it but I know I don't like it."

[Eiko-chan]

1 minute ago, Shin Magmus said:

"I haven't tried it but I know I don't like it."

Yup. People do this all the time. You do this. You do not have to try things to know you don't like it. And it's really infantile to insist people have to try things - and buy things - to decide it isn't for them.

[Shin Magmus]

     Eiko-Chan, it's your topic.  If you just want to complain, you certainly can do so.  But if you don't have any experience with something, and you additionally don't have any facts about it, but you still want to complain about it based entirely on hearsay and assumptions: don't expect anyone to listen.  I've already answered everything I can relevant to the original discussion: which was that the devs are significantly more receptive to feedback during beta cycles than 4 months after the content has been out.  Other people mentioned that stuff even got changed during those cycles.  I additionally pointed out that since the NuCouncil have been live for several months now, changes based on one person's feedback are pretty unlikely.  You'd need to provide some sort of data like recorded mission times (showing how much slower the NuCouncil are now compared to their old version) to make a "case" to get the devs to even begin to evaluate making a change.  It would need to be well-reasoned and backed up by evidence.

 

    I only mentioned Advanced Mode because other people are bringing it up... again.  You can't know you don't like something without trying it first.

[Eiko-chan]

Shin, please re-read what I posted. Absolutely nothing I've said anything about is about Advanced Mode content. I explicitly said I wasn't talking about Advanced Mode.

 

And you absolutely can know you don't like something without trying it first. You know you don't like being burned by acid or fire. You know you don't like eating feces. You know you don't like being unable to breathe. None of these things are things you need to experience to know you don't like them.

 

Just like I don't need to experience even harder group content to know that I already don't like group content in this game, which is why I play solo. That way the stupid stuff I do doesn't affect other people, and the stupid stuff other people do doesn't affect me. 

Edited May 23 by Eiko-chan

[Excraft]

19 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

"I haven't tried it but I know I don't like it."

 

Interesting response.  Do you really need to try something in order to know you don't like it?  If someone offered you a stew after you reading the menu and seeing the ingredients included like festering rotted roadkill and raw sewage, you'd need to try it first to know you don't like it?

For the record here, I'm not equating any of the changes or additions to this game to rotting sewage.

[PeregrineFalcon]

8 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

 Eiko-Chan, it's your topic.  If you just want to complain, you certainly can do so.  But if you don't have any experience with something, and you additionally don't have any facts about it, but you still want to complain about it based entirely on hearsay and assumptions: don't expect anyone to listen.

I've never jumped off of a 100 story building. Am I allowed to say that I don't want to and probably wouldn't enjoy the experience?

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

1) I don't know why "questioning other people" even comes up in the suggestions game forum, unless this is a specific comment along the lines of "I have a question only a dev can answer". 

 

2) I think you underestimate how infrequently /jranger is used, especially compared with the first several years of Homecoming. Frankly, often when /jranger is used, someone else almost immediately comes along and explains why the suggestion probably merited a /jranger. See "Bring back Prestige"

 

I'm not underestimating anything.  I'm speaking from personal experience.  It's not worth re-hashing in this thread, but you do have a lot of people here who throw hissy fit temper tantrums when someone questions them, questions numbers they provide or offers an opposing point of view that runs counter to their world view.  I'm happy to send you specifics via PM. 

[Shin Magmus]

     These bad-faith comparisons are genuinely hilarious.  However, there's no value in arguing with such weak points, or arguing in general on these forums.  Blindly criticize the new content all you want, but unless you offer a solution (and back up why with data) nothing will change.  Every time I make a complaint suggestion thread, I also put a proposed solution: new numbers/effects/etc.  Where are your solutions?  Please post them.

[Eiko-chan]

7 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

Where are your solutions?  Please post them.

NuCouncil should not appear until level 50. Or possibly even only in Incarnate content. 

[Shin Magmus]

> Example complaint:

NuCouncil are too tough, it has been mentioned multiple times (seen it from people in-game and on Discord too, not just here) since their buffs: "Bullet Sponges" is the term.  The unhappiness stems from the fact that fighting NuCouncil just take longer.

 

> Example solution:

Galaxy enemies lose some or all of their tankiness, in exchange for a powerful but smaller AoE attack that is telegraphed and can be avoided.  Players can just move out of the way, MMs can just move their pets out of the way.  This simultaneously fixes the issue, incorporates positive design from Advanced Mode stuff, and drives further engagement from the players in a way that they can control, rather than the way the powerful AoE Rez attack just hits a huge area instantly every time they die.

[Eiko-chan]

OMG no. "Avoid the red circle" design is that absolute worst "innovation" in MMOs and it really has absolutely no place here. Keep that shit in Advanced Mode and iTrials. 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Shin Magmus said:

1 hour ago, Eiko-chan said:

FTR, I don't play Advanced Mode stuff, do not care to, and am not commenting on the content contained therein. From some of the discussions I've seen going around it seems like it's all a completely different game from the core game, and if there's people that want to play that, more power to them. No skin off my back. 
As long as all those things remain inside Advanced Mode and don't bleed out.

"I haven't tried it but I know I don't like it."

People can play the game however they like as long as they aren't out there harrassing others. If some players don't want anything to do with Hard Mode/Advanced Mode, that is their choice. That is pretty much why Hard Mode/Advanced Mode was made. So players that wanted a more difficult/challenging experience can have it and those that don't won't have to deal with it.

[ZacKing]

31 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

These bad-faith comparisons are genuinely hilarious. 

 

Well no, there's no bad faith comparison being made.  There's nothing wrong in pointing out the fact that your "you didn't try it, so you can't comment on it and your opinion doesn't matter" just doesn't work. 

[tidge]

33 minutes ago, Eiko-chan said:

NuCouncil should not appear until level 50. Or possibly even only in Incarnate content. 

 

Do either of the follow matter?

• The powers and abilities demonstrated by the NuCouncil appear in the lore well before level 50.
• With the exception of the random FREEM!, those nuPowers are not radically different from powers exhibited by other factions bosses.

[Eiko-chan]

9 minutes ago, tidge said:

Do either of the follow matter?

• The powers and abilities demonstrated by the NuCouncil appear in the lore well before level 50.
• With the exception of the random FREEM!, those nuPowers are not radically different from powers exhibited by other factions bosses.

Point 1: Among the Archvillains. Galaxies are not actual Nictus. There is a redside mission in Cap that makes this explicit - Galaxies are imbedded with Nictus fragments, not full Nictii (you serve as host to one for a brief period, gaining a Galaxy's powers, before having it extracted.) 
Point 2: Galaxy Adjutants - the Lieutenants - demonstrate the same resurrection and teleportation abilities as the Archons. Who, once again, are not Warshades/Nictus in the Lore.