The Definitive Empathy Rework: it's time to fix this bad powerset

[Shin Magmus]

A foreword from the author...

 

     This is an update to my original thread on long-overdue Empathy buffs and reworks, but now with the added context of Marine Affinity being released officially.  Hi there, I'm the Mr. Shin who likes Defenders and Corruptors.  You may have noticed me mention that Empathy is the worst Support powerset in the game once or twice.  Well... that's because it's true; Empathy is objectively the worst option right now and the situation keeps getting worse by comparison.  The HC Powers Devs have buffed and/or reworked pretty much every Support powerset in the game by now, even adding nifty buffs to outlier powers (Liquify in Sonic Resonance); these changes are greatly appreciated.  The Devs have also added 2 new very strong new Support options in Elec Affinity and Marine Affinity: with these sets being useful benchmarks for the maximum strength that the Devs believe Support ATs should have.  An unfortunate side-effect is that these sets absolutely dumpster Empathy by comparison.  Empathy hasn't been buffed once, ever, and it's genuinely incompetent sad that Empathy languishes like it does.  This problem is exacerbated by the high popularity of Empathy but the puppies and kittens woof meow.

 

     For some history, my first lv50 on Live was an Empathy/Dark Defender.  I am intricately familiar with playing the set both before and after power creep, and with playing its near identical analogues: first in Thermal and later when Pain Domination was added.  I vividly recall when Pain Domination first came out on Live; We noticed very clearly the changes to the set to bring it more in line with playing more smoothly with MMs, pets in general, and League mechanics.  I also noticed the overt detail that no fewer than 3 of Pain Domination's powers are simply upgrades from their Empathy companion powers: this will be discussed in detail.  These 3 powers offer incentives to pick Pain Domination over Empathy in an extremely literal way.  A bigger issue is that Empathy was partially outclassed even in the oldest versions of the game, because it has bizarre weaknesses like a +Recovery power that doesn't grant a single other benefit for when your teammates do not need assistance managing their Endurance.  It's a stark contrast from buffs like Speed Boost and Accelerate Metabolism, which provide +Recharge and have retained their meta relevance for 20 years.  All I want is for Empathy to be relevant again, instead of the bad joke that it currently is.

 

-------------------------

 

Fixed Empathy 2.0

By: Shin_Rekkoha (Shin Magmus)

(Numerical values listed below will be using Defender as the base AT.  Reduce power values by known scalar ratios for Corrs / Controllers / MMs)

 

T1 - Healing Aura / T2 - Heal Other

     While these powers are ruthlessly boring, they have direct parity with the heals in Pain and Thermal: which seems to be the intended baseline for such powers.  I dislike the long animation time commitment using your PbAoE Heal in all 3 of these sets, but this is a bigger issue when bad players put their Healing Aura on auto-cast: because it prevents them from being able to reactively click other powers.  No changes are warranted here, but a small animation time reduction to Healing Aura, Soothe, Warmth, and Radiant Aura would probably be good for the game.

*No Changes -or- minor animation time reduction for Healing Aura + clones*

*Inspired Healing Aura and Inspired Heal Other added...*

 

T3 - Absorb Pain

     Here's our first directly inferior power.  Absorb Pain debuffs the user in exchange for the massive heal, but it doesn't give them any real incentive to use this power over Heal Other most of the time.  Pain got around this by making Absorb Pain buff the user's damage, which is a useful buff for focusing on your work.  As Empathy is more defensively-themed, I think Absorb Pain giving Resistance is entirely on-brand.  This buff not only makes the power more safe to use, incentivizing the player to go for it, but it diversifies what IOs can be slotted into the power.

*Add Resistance on self after use / allow slotting Resist Damage sets*

*+22.5% Damage Resistance (All) on self (unresistable) for 15s*

*Inspired Absorb Pain added...*

 

T4 - Resurrect

     Here's our second directly inferior power.  With the same 3 minute CD as Conduit of Pain but no buffs or secondary effects to the target or to yourself: Resurrect is the absolute worst "Rez" in the game.  An incredibly simple fix is simply for this power to buff the target, using templates from other "Rez" powers.  Conduit of Pain, Mutation, and Elixer of Life all give a very strong buff for a duration, followed by a weaker debuff for half that duration.  This double-edged buff/debuff theme does fit those powers, but for an Empath's kind heart I don't think debuffing our teammates is thematic.  Instead, I propose the buff granted be weaker as balance for not having a "crash" or debuff.  Resurrect should give the target +12.5% Defense (All but Psy) and 15% Res (All) for 60s.

*Add Defense and Resistance on revived target after use / allow slotting Defense and Resist Damage sets*

*+12.5% Def (All but Psy), +15% Damage Resistance (All) on resurrected target (unresistable) for 60s*

 

T5 - Clear Mind

     Here's our third directly inferior power.  I am aware that people dislike most single target Mez protection clicks and wish they were AoEs, but that's never going to happen.  Clear Mind is identical to Clarity, but both are weaker than Pain's Enforced Morale which gives a minor +Recharge as well.  The bigger issue is how much worse these powers are than Antidote and Thaw, which provide Damage Resistance on top of valuable debuff resistance (to slows) in exchange for not granting +Perception.  I've always thought there was a middle ground here, and that ground was giving both Clear Mind and Clarion minor Resistance to Psy damage; It makes complete sense thematically, matches the power names, and it partially patches a current damage type hole in both Empathy and Sonic Resonance.  Additionally, Clear Mind, Enforced Morale, and Clarity are regarded as Dead Powers in your build because they can slot nothing useful for the effect of the powers nor mule unique IO's for your build; Most people simply throw in a Recharge IO which barely makes any difference.  Allowing the player to mule an incredibly useful Resist Damage Unique IO in these powers is simply giving them parity with Poison and Thermal Radiation.

*Add Resistance on target after use / allow slotting Resist Damage sets*

*+10% Damage Resistance (Psy) on target (unresistable) for 90s, effect does not stack with multiple applications like Mez Protection*

 

T6 - Fortitude

     The issue with Fortitude is that it is balanced around players being intelligent and very active.  Fortitude lasts 120s but does not stack with itself from the same caster, so you are meant to move through the list of teammates and cast it on different people.  With just SO enhancements, Fortitude is perma on 4 other players: objective fact, non-debatable.  With sufficient Recharge bonuses (and no small amount of effort) it is possible to have Fortitude on all 7 other players on your team.  The numbers on this power fall apart when the Empathy player is puppies and kittens woof meow.  Not only is Fortitude shackled by this weakness via player skill, but even the best player in the world won't be able to reasonably extend Fortitude's benefits to the legion of extra entities from MMs, Controllers, Lore Pets, etc.  The Live Devs and the HC Powers Devs both implicitly understood that AoE buffs mesh better with teamplay and leagueplay in the way that CoH has evolved, demonstrated through the AoE buffs (or chain buffs in Elec) that all post-Empathy Support powersets include.  I don't think it's controversial to say it's long past due for Fortitude to be made an AoE.  Changing the way that this power works will buff it more at the low end of of player performance than at the high end, but it will be a large buff regardless.  There are 2 viable ways to rework Fortitude: AoE click buff or AoE ally-anchored toggle.  If Fortitude becomes an AoE click buff, it will have to get numbers reductions across the board to have parity with World of Pain and Foresight, especially because a long duration AoE click buff will benefit massively from full-duration interaction with Power Boost.  Alternatively, if it becomes an AoE ally-anchored toggle it can retain its current numbers and work like an inverse version of Disruption Field, which will only receive brief windows of increased strength from Power Boost.  Marine Affinity has shown that the Devs are okay with strong buffing ally-anchored toggles and set the precedent for this change.

*Change power to an PbAoE, either a click buff or an ally-anchored toggle*

*Click Version: 25 ft Radius (affects user), 255 targets, 15.60 End Cost, 120s duration, 240s CD, +25.00% Dmg, +12.50% To Hit, +10.00% Def*

*Toggle Version: requires ally to cast (pets okay), 25ft Radius (can affect user), 255 targets, 0.52 End/Sec, 8s CD, +31.25% Dmg, +18.75% To Hit, +15.00% Def*

 

T7 - Revitalizing Aura (Recovery Aura + Regeneration Aura)

     It's best to lead with this: a pure Recovery buff is worthless on many teammates whose builds do not require help managing endurance.  All good Recovery buffs in this game have useful secondary effects, usually +Recharge, to provide any benefit at all in these situations.  Recovery Aura and Regeneration Aura also dubiously cannot be made permanent in a game where support sets have completely defined themselves by achieving "perma" buffs such as Overgrowth and Chrono Shift.  So what we've got here is a power that is situationally useless... with the audacity to also have forced downtime.  The current power Recovery Aura is a joke power, while Regeneration Aura is simply a decent power.  This is completely sound justification to merge Recovery Aura and Regeneration Aura as part of the Empathy rework: it's just good game design.  The new power needs a name and I think "Revitalizing Aura" fits the bill nicely, we're not done yet though...  Increasing the duration is interesting but Overgrowth lasts for only 60s and Chrono Shift for 90s, and Revitalizing Aura is very similar in scope to those powers.  Leaving it at 90s duration "feels right", so that leaves lowering the CD.  A reduction from 500s to 360s is reasonable for uptime that is nearly permanent, and with outside sources of +Recharge could be permanent.  Now all that's left is strength adjustment.  Recovery +200% -> +100%, Regen +500% -> +250%, now grants debuff resistance complementing the buffs: 64.88% resistance to -Regen/-Recovery/-End at lv50.  This new power still provides incredibly potent buffs, but now it also insulates the team against debuffs making it more consistent overall at countering enemy groups such as Freakshow and Praetorian Clockwork.

*Regeneration Aura and Recovery Aura combined / Power renamed to Revitalizing Aura / buff effects decreased, cooldown decreased, added debuff resistance to -Regen and -Recovery*

*PbAoE buff (affects user), 25 ft Radius, 255 targets, 26.00 End Cost, 90s duration, 360s CD, +100% Recovery (unresistable), +250% Regeneration (unresistable),+64.88% Resistance to -Regeneration, -Recovery, and -Endurance (ignores buffs and enhancements, unresistable, scales with player level)*

 

T8 - Healing Hands (Empathy gets a NEW POWER)

     There's no getting around the obvious answer here: Empathy needs a new power and this power needs to increase damage in a way beyond the easily cap-able +Damage buff stat; The 2 options are -Damage Resistance debuffs and +Damage procs (additional instances of damage).  We also have the precedent set by Marine Affinity's Shifting Tides, so the Devs are fine with Support powersets being able to add damage procs.  This is the only way for the powerset to remain relevant on teams at all when the players aren't struggling, by providing offensive merit for when teams don't need Empathy for its defensive merit.  The theme of Empathy is that it has 0 powers which directly affect enemies, and that gave me an idea.  I've combined aspects of several powers to come up with a genius solution to this problem, creating a brand-new idea for a power that every Empathy player will love: Healing Hands!!!  This power is a buff you cast on yourself that has 2 effects.  First, it increases your Healing strength allowing you to puke out larger green numbers.  Second, it changes the effects of Healing Aura, Heal Other, and Absorb Pain, via the redirect ability to call different versions of those powers in the same way that Titan Weapons works; You can think of this mechanically as "Momentum but for Empathy".  The absolute brilliance of this implementation means that it rewards Empathy players (and their teammates) for the Empath hitting everyone on the team with Healing Aura: but it is a long enough duration affect that it also doesn't further reward or encourage needless Heal spamming, allowing plenty of time to use attacks and other powers.

*Added new power "Healing Hands", self buff, +strength to Healing, redirect to "Inspired" Healing powers, grant affected targets +Psy Dmg procs*

*Description: "You focus your heart and mind, strengthening all of your Healing powers to restore additional Hit Points.  These powers inspire you and your allies to defeat your foes, causing all damaging powers to inflict additional Psionic damage.  The bonus damage effect lasts for a brief time, but can be extended by Healing targets again."

*Primary Effect: Self Buff, 90s duration, 360s CD, +25% Strength to Healing (unresistable), redirect Healing powers to "Inspired" versions of Healing powers.

*Child Effect: Healing Aura, Heal Other, and Absorb Pain now buff all affected targets for 30s (Healing Aura also buffs the user), 100% chance of dealing bonus Psy Dmg procs on all attacks, does not stack from same caster (Healing again will refresh the duration of the buff, allowing it to last up to 30s after Healing Hands wears off), damage expression is similar to Brimstone Armor (check City of Data for details) but understandably much lower for balance reasons*

 

T9 - Adrenaline Boost

     This power is pretty cracked for what it does honestly, just like Painbringer.  When enhanced for Heal(Regen), this buff can make a decent build completely un-killable and put them into a hands-off safety state for 90s.  I appreciate that it contains massive resistance to Slow/-Recharge as well, as that fits the theme and helps shield your chosen ally from dangerous debuffs.  I see no reason to change this.  However, if I was going to add anything, it would be that Painbringer and Adrenaline Boost should be the only powers in the game that give the target a small amount of "Bloom" like Nature does, enabling everyone to heal the targets more during the effect and partially counteracting -Heal debuffs.

*Add -20% Resistance to Healing on target for 90s*

 

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     That's that, the Definitive, much-needed, and well-reasoned list of changes for a long overdue Empathy buff and rework.  Thanks to the HC Powers Devs for finishing up Marine Affinity and officially releasing it; Now we have a template against which we can measure Empathy's performance and dial in how much it needs to be buffed.  My suggested changes to Empathy will result in a significantly improved experience for Empaths and their teammates, at both low skill level and high skill level minmaxed builds.  Bopper and Captain Powerhouse, you can feel free to use my Healing Hands idea: it would make me as happy as a puppy playing with a kitten.  I'm very interested in any and all feedback.

 

 

Edited September 26 by Shin Magmus
Be Excellent To Each Other

[Laucianna]

I'm not an empathy main by any means (Did used to play one) so I am not that experienced but aside from the very humble comments 😄 I do think this sounds like a great buff to an underperforming set whilst still maintaining the ultimate healing vibe, the only thing I am not sure on is the proc on healing hands as that is damage but having it add extra effects to the other powers whilst increasing the healing is a great idea! It also gives Empathy players that recharge goal to achieve perma healing godhood which is always a great milestone to get on a character ❤️

[Shin Magmus]

Aw... thank you.

[Bo7a]

All of these changes make perfect sense. Great write-up.

I love the healing hands idea. If these changes were even 80% implemented I think I'd roll an empath for the first time ever.

 

[golstat2003]

I think it’s okay. The devs may tweak a few things if they go this route. And yeah agreed AOE anti mez is not something I see them doing for empathy ever. lol

[FupDup]

I'm still weary of adding more offense to Empathy for thematic reasons (I understand the metagame reasons but I think that meta is dogshit and don't want to further reinforce/stagnate it), but at least this psi proc version is more creative and unique than your previous -res idea. I don't entirely hate it. 

Edited September 22 by FupDup

[Shin Magmus]

38 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

I think it’s okay. The devs may tweak a few things if they go this route. And yeah agreed AOE anti mez is not something I see them doing for empathy ever. lol

     The long-lasting mez protection clicks are basically on a soft banlist from becoming AoE (even Increase Density as it is now) because they allow all the squishy ATs to essentially not have any weakness (before lv50 and Clarion).  All current sources of AoE mez protection are field effects, and you lose the buff if you step outside of it, almost instantly in fact.  The Clear Mind clones all last 90s and that being AoE is just forever off the table.

[Auroxis]

First i'll say that I wouldn't be upset if these were the changes, so kudos for that. I like that your changes address my least favorite parts of Empathy which are solo utility, Fortitude being a bit too active for optimal play, and the lack of high level offensive support (the idea of giving a psy damage proc to address it is quite good).

 

What's missing for me is updating my favorite part of Empathy which actually fits the powerset's selfless name, which is the theme of "choose a player, it is now a god". It is not primarily about yourself with Empathy, but about others. For example, being able to elevate that newbie to endgame build levels is very satisying to me, and I'd like that part up to date with modern standards.

Edited September 22 by Auroxis

[Razor Cure]

On 9/22/2024 at 10:21 PM, Shin Magmus said:

My response after the ...and your first sentence in each section.

 

T1 - Healing Aura / T2 - Heal Other

     While these powers are ruthlessly boring...Agree with you. The animation time could be a bit less. What I'd love is some kinda overlay to show the AoE range, so you can see who it will hit.

 

T3 - Absorb Pain

     Here's our first directly inferior power... I like this idea. An +Absorb of some kind would help offset the negative heal period (which is kinda offset in Pain Dom with the aoe +res)

 

T4 - Resurrect

     Here's our second directly inferior power...  I dont know about inferior as such. Resurrect just does nothing else, unless the rez's in other sets. Some benefits (at least a tiny period of Untouchable to retoggle) would be nice..but I'd argue that any Emp (especially a fender) who cant keep their entire team alive should play a different powerset. haha

 

T5 - Clear Mind

     Here's our third directly inferior power.... Not..really. I DO agree it will never be AoE, and it shouldnt be. We have enough lazy ass emps as is. Also, I cant be sure, but apparently Enforced Morale doesnt actually give any +rech? Power says it does, but I read a post saying they tested it, and no +rech is actually conferred? COuld be wrong. You suggests for +Psy resist is pretty on brand (i think) with a set named Empathy. I dont agree the Emp has a Psy hole though, Fort gives def to all, and the auras + AB give huge regen, regardless of damage type.

 

T6 - Fortitude

     The issue with Fortitude is that it is balanced around players being intelligent and very active.  The numbers on this power fall apart when the Empathy player is dumb and inactive: which is a staggeringly common occurrence...True, but 100% the PLAYERS fault. We cant blame shitty players on the power. Every power is rubbish with a shitty player behind the keys (take SB and FS, two of the BEST support powers in game, but if the kin is crap - and they mostly were on Live because they all farmed - you wont even know you have a kin on the team). To echo your comment on Clear Mind..Fort should NOT be an AoE. It will just encourage more lazy players, and then the power overlaps with Farsight and Dispersion Field with similar buffs. If you want to play a low skill support that gives +def..play Force Field. If you want a support where you have to actually think and prioritse a buff on the people who need it (I have been on teams and people give my ice/rad troller fort..why? I do no damage, and I am not missing with my rad buffs on.), play an Emp.

 

T7 - Revitalizing Aura (Recovery Aura + Regeneration Aura)

     It's best to lead with this: a pure Recovery buff is worthless on many teammates whose builds do not require help managing endurance....True, but both powers are super handy on the way to 50, where even sets that have +recovery powers can easily run dry by themselves. I like the idea of some extra effects though, so at least they are useful to everyone.

 

T8 - Healing Hands (Empathy gets a NEW POWER)

     There's no getting around the obvious answer here: Empathy needs a new power...Does it though? Bringing up Shifting Tides, apparently one of the best toggles in game, and a brand new one, and using that as the benchmark for updating one of the first powersets..doesnt really work. Using that metric, basically every old set them needs a buff due to the new sets and power creep. I just dont think 'capped damage' when I head Empathy. Healing, Protection, yes. Damage (well capped damage) no. I admit, your suggest still does seem pretty thematic and cool though, and in like with your 'psy kinda effects' you ar eadding to the set.

 

T9 - Adrenaline Boost

     This power is pretty cracked for what it does honestly, just like Painbringer..Hard to argue AB needs anything, it is awesome. I dont know if a +Heal effect is the way to go though. It kinda fits the theme, but the +regen is already huge, and as you said, makes most stuff almost unkillable. If you are almost unkillable, and also have more healing..where is the challenge?

 

-------------------------

 

Basically..some of the powers COULD use a lil extra effects, but the set is fine as it is, an in the hands of a GOOD player, is an amazing support set. The entire team wont be mezzed, and has basically constant (depending on your recharge) +def, +to hit and damage, backed up by 2 of the best target heals in game.

The set is fine, the people who play it are usually useless (trollers can get SOME leeway, since its their secondary, but a Fender Emp, who never uses CM, of just throws out Fort once every 5 mins, and usually on the power it helps least? Go back to AE)

 

 

 

Edited September 24 by Razor Cure

[Oklahoman]

A lot of people have been asking for Empathy to get looked at again since Live, and at this point I'd be happy for it to get any attention whatsoever. I don't disagree with anything you suggested, but I've always wanted Empathy's Resurrect to be AoE (targeted or PB, whatever). And while I like your idea for Healing Hands I've always thought a cool new Empathy power would be a pet that's basically the opposite of a Dark Servant (a Light Servant?). But seriously, at this point if a patch note just said they removed a comma from an Empathy power description I'd be happy someone looked at the powerset.

[JasperStone]

Empathy is due for an update due to the nature of the game. Sure 

 

Healing Aura; Sure. But insulting players and their play style diminishes the value of what you are proposing

 

Absorb Pain: Your change to Absorb Pain says you missed the point of the Set and the Point of this particular power

You view it as a debuff ... sure....maybe

 

"Dramatically heals an ally's wounds. This power has only a tiny Endurance cost, but it requires you to sacrifice some of your Hit Points. Absorbing someone's pain can be quite dramatic, and afterward, you will be briefly unable to heal your own wounds by any means." <------ THIS. ALL this in fact. 

 

You missed the self-sacrifice that this power and Empathy has plus the low endurance cost. Empathy is Self-sacrifice. Doing something without reward.

 

Combining RAs....sure... been talked about a good bit.

 

Healing Hands goes against what Empathy is ... I'd rather have a long-range TP Resurrect. 

 

Fortitude. A great power as is that is not to be on every player on the team at all times. But ... AoE Click, sure. Again ... insulting players and those who play Empathy is beyond the pale.

 

Resurrect  No buff? I disagree

"Resurrects a fallen ally with full Hit Points and Endurance. The Resurrected target is left protected from XP Debt for 90 seconds.

Often I have to do this in the middle of combat, it would be nice to add a speed or jump or fly so the player can get to safety quickly

 

Clear Mind: Not inferior. Make it like Speed Boost AoE and we are done.

-----

You call it a rework. You have fundamentally changed what the Empathy Powerset is.

Sure. Make it so.

But don't call it Empathy.

 

Calling powers inferior does not add weight to your argument.

Insulting the play styles of players ... same.

 

I have played Empathy since day 1 of my time with the game. 

Still, play it.

This is NOT gatekeeping; this acknowledging your proposed set is NOT Empathy.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25 by JasperStone

[Shin Magmus]

     Thanks for all the feedback everyone.  It's good to know that we all agree that Empathy powers being directly inferior to analogous Pain Domination powers is an issue.  I'm glad to see players all root for the betterment of a powerset.

[JasperStone]

25 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

     Thanks for all the feedback everyone.  It's good to know that we all agree that Empathy powers being directly inferior to analogous Pain Domination powers is an issue.  I'm glad to see players all root for the betterment of a powerset.

 

58 minutes ago, JasperStone said:

Empathy is due for an update due to the nature of the game. Sure 

 

Healing Aura; Sure. But insulting players and their play style diminishes the value of what you are porposing

 

Absorb Pain: Your change to Absorb Pain says you missed the point of the Set and the Point of this particular power

You view it as a debuff ... sure....maybe

 

"Dramatically heals an ally's wounds. This power has only a tiny Endurance cost, but it requires you to sacrifice some of your Hit Points. Absorbing someone's pain can be quite dramatic, and afterward, you will be briefly unable to heal your own wounds by any means." <------ THIS. ALL this in fact. 

 

You missed the self-sacrifice that this power and Empathy. Empathy is Self Sacrifice. Doing something without reward.

 

Combining RAs....sure... been talked about a good bit.

 

Healing Hands goes against what Empathy is ... I'd rather have a long-range TP Resurrect. 

 

Fortitude. A great power as is that is not to be on every player on the team at all times. But ... AoE Click, sure. Again ... insulting players and those who play Empathy is beyond the pale.

 

Resurrect  No buff? I disagree

"Resurrects a fallen ally with full Hit Points and Endurance. The Resurrected target is left protected from XP Debt for 90 seconds.

 

Clear Mind: Not inferior. Make it like Speed Boost AoE and we are done.

-----

You call it a rework. You have fundamentally changed what the Empathy Powerset is.

Sure. Make it so.

But don't call it Empathy.

 

Calling powers inferior do not add weight to your argument.

Insulting the play styles of players ... same.

 

I have played Empathy since day 1 of my time with the game. 

Still, play it.

This is NOT gatekeeping; this acknowledging your proposed set is NOT Empathy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agreed that a change is due.

But not yours.

You fundamentally do not understand the powerset or a majority of its powers.

 

Edited September 25 by JasperStone

[Shin Magmus]

     It would seem that I fundamentally understand Empathy and the majority of its powers: nice!  Well, CoH is a pretty old and reasonably "solved" game due to being a fairly simple MMO, so that makes sense.  Several other people all independently reached the same conclusions as well, not to diminish any individual's understanding or contribution.  Since the reactions were so positive to my proposed changes to Empathy, none of which remove the current functions of any of the powers, and since Healing Hands matches exactly what people want from Empathy in theory and do with Empathy in practice, I guess we just happily wait for the day when Empathy gets its due.

[Videra]

Amazing, mission complete! That right there is why you're the best, boss!

You've done great work updating Empathy for the modern era, Shin - now! We can only hope that the devs take your sage wisdom and turn it into a good, desirable rework.

[JasperStone]

40 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

 It would seem that I fundamentally understand Empathy and the majority of its powers: nice! 

 

41 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

Several other people all independently reached the same conclusions as well, not to diminish any individual's understanding or contribution

You missed the people who did not.

 

41 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

Since the reactions were so positive to my proposed changes to Empathy, none of which remove the current functions of any of the powers, and since Healing Hands matches exactly what people want from Empathy in theory and do with Empathy in practice

What People?

 

42 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

I guess we just happily wait for the day when Empathy gets its due.

Agreed.

Just not this.

[Shin Magmus]

43 minutes ago, Videra said:

Amazing, mission complete! That right there is why you're the best, boss!

You've done great work updating Empathy for the modern era, Shin - now! We can only hope that the devs take your sage wisdom and turn it into a good, desirable rework.

 

[Player-1]

On 9/22/2024 at 8:21 AM, Shin Magmus said:

The numbers on this power fall apart when the Empathy player is dumb and inactive: which is a staggeringly common occurrence

 

Hello Shin,

 

I appreciate the write up, but suggesting changes like this will get you ignored by us. 

 

If you would like to enact change, as said in other threads, it is best to show datapoints compared to other powersets. 

[Shin Magmus]

     In order to create a "data point" for Empathy random players who play the set extremely poorly, using a measurable metric such as: "can only keep Fortitude on between 0-2 teammates, and who never use Adrenaline Boost", I would need to cross some lines.  @Player-1 I would need to begin logging other players' performance rather than performing simple solo testing on missions and empirically testing my own.  I'd basically be recording these players against their will, just to write down a numerical metric proving a fact that most people already know.  If you are suggesting that I should be recording footage of my teams and then reviewing the VODs to count the number of Fortitude / Adrenaline Boost icons and weight them by time, determining averaged buff uptime... I will do that.  But somehow I feel like people here would call me mean if I were to do that.

[JasperStone]

17 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

   In order to create a "data point" for Empathy random players who play the set extremely poorly, using a measurable metric such as: "can only keep Fortitude on between 0-2 teammates, and who never use Adrenaline Boost", I would need to cross some lines.  @Player-1 I would need to begin logging other players' performance rather than performing simple solo testing on missions and empirically testing my own.  I'd basically be recording these players against their will, just to write down a numerical metric proving a fact that most people already know.  If you are suggesting that I should be recording footage of my teams and then reviewing the VODs to count the number of Fortitude / Adrenaline Boost icons and weight them by time, determining averaged buff uptime... I will do that.  But somehow I feel like people here would call me mean if I were to do that.

 

Your opinion of poor performance.

Improve the set ... by focusing on the set and the demands of the game. 

 

 

Edited September 25 by JasperStone

[Shin Magmus]

     As for "data" regarding individual Empathy powers that underperform... I just looked at the power info and drew simple common sense conclusions based on basic math.  Was I supposed to make a spreadsheet to prove that Regeneration Aura and Recovery Aura can't be perma'd?  Do I need to show my work, provide links to the CoD page for Recovery Aura, and type this: "500s CD / 5 = 100s CD.  100s CD > 90s Duration, 100 - 90 = 10.  At the unrealistic standard of the Recharge cap, a buff level not reasonably maintained, Recovery Aura still has a downtime of 10%."

 

     I thought that these basic points did not require a thesis or proof statement, as the math is simple one step arithmetic, it's barely even algebra.  However, I can fill an entire post with basic algebra and then show the power stats of Pain Domination and Marine Affinity side-by-side for easy comparison to Empathy.  Does this really add anything of value to the point?

[JasperStone]

1 minute ago, Shin Magmus said:

     As for "data" regarding individual Empathy powers that underperform... I just looked at the power info and drew simple common sense conclusions based on basic math.  Was I supposed to make a spreadsheet to prove that Regeneration Aura and Recovery Aura can't be perma'd?  Do I need to show my work, provide links to the CoD page for Recovery Aura, and type this: "500s CD / 5 = 100s CD.  100s CD > 90s Duration, 100 - 90 = 10.  At the unrealistic standard of the Recharge cap, a buff level not reasonably maintained, Recovery Aura still has a downtime of 10%."

 

     I thought that these basic points did not require a thesis or proof statement, as the math is simple one step arithmetic, it's barely even algebra.  However, I can fill an entire post with basic algebra and then show the power stats of Pain Domination and Marine Affinity side-by-side for easy comparison to Empathy.  Does this really add anything of value to the point?

Talking down to us and the Devs doesn't help your case

[Shin Magmus]

5 minutes ago, JasperStone said:

Your opinion of poor performance.

Improve the set ... by focusing on the set.

     Okay, I improved the set by focusing on the set and making Fortitude into a power that affects up to 255 targets instead of a single target.  This new power will now be easier to apply to more targets than the current version of Fortitude, which will benefit some players more than others.  I had already done exactly what you wanted, you just chose not to see it.

[Auroxis]

I just had an epiphany! Give Fortitude the Brine treatment. Add a short duration self-buff after casting Adrenalin Boost, that drastically lowers the recharge of Fortitude and gives it that "use me" orange outline. So whenever an Empathy player uses AB, they also get encouraged to spread Fortitude around to a few players!

[Shin Magmus]

8 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

I just had an epiphany! Give Fortitude the Brine treatment. Add a short duration self-buff after casting Adrenalin Boost, that drastically lowers the recharge of Fortitude and gives it that "use me" orange outline. So whenever an Empathy player uses AB, they also get encouraged to spread Fortitude around to a few players!

     It's a bold move, adding an orange circle.  I know a couple Devs who will love the merits of that idea.  It also seems like it would achieve the desired effect of making Fortitude get cast more often.  It won't really address the issue of using Empathy on MMs though, since human teammates will always be higher priority than pets for a single target buff.  (citation needed, provide evidence that players are stronger than pets)