Beam Rifle - Attack to Skip? And a Disintegrate question.

[Lazarillo]

Been finally getting around to a Beam Rifle Sentinel that I've had a concept for almost since before HC launched (I was gonna make it as a Huntsman Spider concept that I'd had just before the initial cancellation got announced).  I'd had it on hold due to visual glitches and kinda being ambivalent on Sentinels, but all that's resolved now, so it's time to play!  Just one question though...which two outta three of the following attacks should I go with:

 

• Single Shot - This used to be my "skip" because of how the animation glitched when hoverblasting, but since HC fixed that, it's back on the table and of the three seems like the best one to keep, since it's a quick filler, good damage for the speed, and even has a -Regen debuff.
• Charged Shot - What I'm using right now as my "fast" attack (despite only being level 25).  It's a little more sluggish, comparable but slightly lower damage/time than Single, but a little meatier in itself.
• Piercing Beam - Even lower damage/time than Charged Shot, but can hypothetically hit multiple enemies and has a -Resist debuff.

 

So barring anything I'm not realizing about Single Shot, I guess it comes down to whether the resist debuff on Piercing is worth the more sluggish windup time (and resulting lower damage/time aspect)...any thoughts?

 

Also, just wondering about Disintegrate...the attack itself does damage over time, plus a Debuff and tags the enemy. Yes, good.  Does re-hitting an enemy with the attack before the first DoT is done start ticking another round that stacks with the one that's ongoing, or does it "reset" the and start ticking just the one DoT from the beginning again?  I know most powers in the game do the former, but given the other special status involved with the attacks, and that I feel like I don't see multi-ticks happening, it seems like it might be doing the latter?

[Midnight Mystique]

I tend to skip piercing beam on sentinels, keeping both single and charged shot, at least until you have enough recharge to cycle lancer shot and your fast casting shot. The cast time on piercing beam is just way to long and although in the past I have had SOME luck hitting two targets at once, its only rarely - they basically have to be in a straight line away from you and NOT move before you start casting.

 

My current BR sent is L42ish and even with 85% global recharge plus full slotting still needs to alternate single and charged shot while waiting for lancer to recharge. (4.55s recharge on lancer, about right for lancer->single->charged->single->lancer, with the second single skippable if I have outside buffs).

 

Not sure about your second question, I usually switch targets if disintigrate is up again to spread the effect more. I am pretty sure dot's should stack but would need to test it to be sure.

[Lazarillo]

46 minutes ago, Midnight Mystique said:

I tend to skip piercing beam on sentinels, keeping both single and charged shot, at least until you have enough recharge to cycle lancer shot and your fast casting shot. The cast time on piercing beam is just way to long and although in the past I have had SOME luck hitting two targets at once, its only rarely - they basically have to be in a straight line away from you and NOT move before you start casting.

 

My current BR sent is L42ish and even with 85% global recharge plus full slotting still needs to alternate single and charged shot while waiting for lancer to recharge. (4.55s recharge on lancer, about right for lancer->single->charged->single->lancer, with the second single skippable if I have outside buffs).

Yeah, that's about in-line with my expectations for late in the build.  Kinda related to the 2nd question was the idea that I could work Disintegrate into the chain, but if it just "refreshes" a single DoT it'd be less useful than that.  I'm like you: I usually expect DoTs to stack.  It's just that this one seems like it might be a little different, and I can think of one (well, technically, a few, but all from the same source) example, which is Interface Incarnate powers, where AFAIK, you can only stack 4 of the same DoT on a target at a time.  Since BR came out around the same time, I thought it's not unthinkable it might have similar mechanics.

 

I appreciate the insight, regardless.

[Uun]

15 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

Also, just wondering about Disintegrate...the attack itself does damage over time, plus a Debuff and tags the enemy. Yes, good.  Does re-hitting an enemy with the attack before the first DoT is done start ticking another round that stacks with the one that's ongoing, or does it "reset" the and start ticking just the one DoT from the beginning again?  I know most powers in the game do the former, but given the other special status involved with the attacks, and that I feel like I don't see multi-ticks happening, it seems like it might be doing the latter?

The DoT and the +dmg buff stack, the -regen does not.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_ranged.beam_rifle.disintegrate&at=sentinel

[Random Axis]

My beam sentinel has energy armor, and entropy shield and power drain want me to be at close range. I skipped all the cone attacks.

[Uun]

35 minutes ago, Random Axis said:

My beam sentinel has energy armor, and entropy shield and power drain want me to be at close range. I skipped all the cone attacks.

You're thinking of Entropic Aura (scrappers/brutes), which is a taunt aura and provides a recharge buff from/debuff to each foe in range. Entropy Shield (sentinels/stalkers) has a flat recharge buff and doesn't target or effect foes at all.

[Random Axis]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

You're thinking of Entropic Aura (scrappers/brutes), which is a taunt aura and provides a recharge buff from/debuff to each foe in range. Entropy Shield (sentinels/stalkers) has a flat recharge buff and doesn't target or effect foes at all.

How would I be thinking of the power on an AT that I don't have any with Energy Aura?

 

I haven't played that character in 200 days. Looking through the build in mids, Entropy Shield and Overload had close range effects on the enemies. That it's just overload changes nothing about what I said. It's on a 17 sec cooldown. Being close lets me unload with the big attacks, then suck up a bunch of endurance to keep the pain coming.

[Uun]

37 minutes ago, Random Axis said:

How would I be thinking of the power on an AT that I don't have any with Energy Aura?

 

I haven't played that character in 200 days. Looking through the build in mids, Entropy Shield and Overload had close range effects on the enemies. That it's just overload changes nothing about what I said. It's on a 17 sec cooldown. Being close lets me unload with the big attacks, then suck up a bunch of endurance to keep the pain coming.

Mids is wrong (they probably copied the stats for Entropic Aura). Neither Entropy Shield or Overload have any effect on enemies. Only Power Drain does.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_defense.energy_aura.entropy_shield&at=sentinel

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_defense.energy_aura.overload&at=sentinel

[tidge]

My BR Sentinel went with:

 

T2 Single Shot, 6x Sentinel's Ward

 

T3 Cutting Beam, 6x Ragnarok

 

T4 Disintegrate, 6x Opportunity Strikes

 

T5 Aim, 6x Gaussian's

 

T6 Lancer Shot, 6x Apocalypse

 

T7 Refractor Beam, Centriole, Guidance, 4x %damage

 

T8 Piercing Beam, 6x Annihilation

 

T9 Overcharge, Frozen Blast +Javelin Volley (Acc/End/Damage/Recharge) + 4x %damage

 

Because it is such a single-target focus of the set, and with a Sentinel's choices for secondary being what they are, I felt like I needed all the attacks after the T1/T2 choice (plus Aim).

 

I didn't feel like the character really came together until I had Refractor Beam (slotted).

[Jacke]

On 7/30/2024 at 10:18 PM, Lazarillo said:

...which two outta three of the following attacks should I go with:

 

• Single Shot - This used to be my "skip" because of how the animation glitched when hoverblasting, but since HC fixed that, it's back on the table and of the three seems like the best one to keep, since it's a quick filler, good damage for the speed, and even has a -Regen debuff.
• Charged Shot - What I'm using right now as my "fast" attack (despite only being level 25).  It's a little more sluggish, comparable but slightly lower damage/time than Single, but a little meatier in itself.
• Piercing Beam - Even lower damage/time than Charged Shot, but can hypothetically hit multiple enemies and has a -Resist debuff.

 

I've not checked this on Sentinels to be sure there, but on Blasters and Defenders with Beam Rifle, I take the T1 Single Shot and the T8 Piercing Beam, skipping the T2 Charged Shot.

 

Rather than best individual DPS, it's more important to have good individual DPA in a chain that allows all Powers to recharge.  That gives the better overall DPS.

 

The T1 Single Shot has a -Regen effect on mobs with Disintegrating, but it does have the lowest ST DPA in the set.  But the recharge of Charged Shot is long enough that it makes it awkward to use when not all the other ST attacks are available, as well as having the next lowest ST DPA.  And neither the T1 or T2 is in the best ST chain.

 

The T8 Piercing Beam is 3° cone with max targets of 3, so it's effectively ST.  Has a high Cast time, but it does provide certain -Res which is good.

 

Beam Rifle is heavily ST.  And the best ST chain doesn't have either the T1 or the T2 in it.  I think it would be best as:

T4 Disintegrate - T8 Piercing Beam - T7 Penetrating Ray - T6 Lancer Shot

 

 

On 8/2/2024 at 2:56 PM, Uun said:

Mids is wrong (they probably copied the stats for Entropic Aura). Neither Entropy Shield or Overload have any effect on enemies. Only Power Drain does.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_defense.energy_aura.entropy_shield&at=sentinel

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_defense.energy_aura.overload&at=sentinel

 

Then you need to summon @UberGuy so he is informed to check it out.

EDIT: Whoops!  For some strange reason, when you wrote "Mids" I read "CoD2".  Sigh.  Anyhoo, sorry, @Uun, @UberGuy.

 

There are many places where Mids Reborn (MRB) has issues.  Some are so big or hard to fix that they can't be fixed in the current MRB.

 

 

Edited August 5 by Jacke

[UberGuy]

Given what's on CoD comes straight from the game files, I'm inclined to agree with @Uun. Both powers are single-target, target self and have self as the only affected entity. While some effect lines say things like "all affected targets", what that actually boils down to is controlled by the Target and Entities Affected lines.

[tidge]

The -Regen effects of some Beam Rifle attacks are good, but I think they are not nearly as important on a Sentinel as they are on something like a Defender, because of the wide difference in (ranged) damage scales between those AT. I'm sure there are some corner case content where the BR -Regen can manifest itself, but for most play I'd focus on Sentinel DPS.

[Lazarillo]

On 8/4/2024 at 6:58 PM, Jacke said:

Rather than best individual DPS, it's more important to have good individual DPA in a chain that allows all Powers to recharge.  That gives the better overall DPS.

 

The T1 Single Shot has a -Regen effect on mobs with Disintegrating, but it does have the lowest ST DPA in the set.  But the recharge of Charged Shot is long enough that it makes it awkward to use when not all the other ST attacks are available, as well as having the next lowest ST DPA.  And neither the T1 or T2 is in the best ST chain.

See, that thought is also what I'm thinking, and maybe I'm reading something incorrectly, but when I look at the in-game numbers, the t1 has a DPA of 97.87 at level 50, and the t2 has 82.05, the opposite of what you suggested.  Piercing Beam, meanwhile, only has 56.97, so it's a pretty sizable cut in exchange for the Resistance debuff, it seems like.  (And Penetrating Ray, meanwhile, which you mentioned, isn't in the Sentinel version of the set: they get Refractor Beam which is a "chain"-type small AoE instead).  Hence why I was wondering whether the Resist debuff was worth the much longer windup time.

[Jacke]

3 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

See, that thought is also what I'm thinking, and maybe I'm reading something incorrectly, but when I look at the in-game numbers, the t1 has a DPA of 97.87 at level 50, and the t2 has 82.05, the opposite of what you suggested.  Piercing Beam, meanwhile, only has 56.97, so it's a pretty sizable cut in exchange for the Resistance debuff, it seems like.  (And Penetrating Ray, meanwhile, which you mentioned, isn't in the Sentinel version of the set: they get Refractor Beam which is a "chain"-type small AoE instead).  Hence why I was wondering whether the Resist debuff was worth the much longer windup time.

 

Get the numbers from CoD2, as sometimes the displays in games introduces some issues.  Also need to use the Arcanatime Casts as they represent the actual amount of time taken by casting as controlled by the server clock.

 

The one thing that CoD2 can get wrong is which of the first two Powers in a Powerset are the T1 and T2 Powers (any thoughts, @UberGuy?).  This is one thing that MRB gets right as far as I know.  But I do check in game.  At least for Blast Powersets, the T1 is the faster recharging Power of the first two Powers.

 

So....

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=sentinel_ranged.beam_rifle&at=sentinel

 

Oh damn, Sentinel Beam Rifle really is different.  Loses the Snipe Penetrating Ray for a Chain Refractor Beam.  That's not even remotely good for ST DPA.

 

I'm not great at Sentinel builds (only done an AR/Ninjitsu build but haven't levelled the Toon to confirm it).  The DPA of the T1 and T2 are very close.  If the build can't take all 5 attacks with good ST DPA, I'd likely skip the T2, Charged Shot.  Likely a better chain if Exemplared so low the T8 isn't available.  And if the recharge isn't low enough for the 4 shot chain below, another Single Shot can be added on the end in the second chain.  Worse case third chain should work.

 

Single Shot does deliver a -Regen to a Disintegrated target--but doesn't get any extra damage.  Subbing the T2 for the T1 would give better DPA on a Disintegrating target.  However, if the build only has the T2 and not the T1, I think the recharge would have to be low enough to do its version of the first chain.

 

Would need to be tested to be sure, but taking the T1 would give these possible chains, depending on the recharge.

 

Disintegrate - Piercing Beam - Single Shot - Lancer Shot

Disintegrate - Piercing Beam - Single Shot - Lancer Shot - Single Shot

Disintegrate - Single Shot - Piercing Beam - Single Shot - Lancer Shot

 

Note that DPA values in MRB are a bit different, but they at least appear to be just a bit lower than the ones I calculated.

 

2024 Aug 06 Tue

Beam Rifle

Tier  Power              Damage    Cast AT     DPA

T1  Single Shot          61.1712 / 1.188s  =  51.49/s
T2  Charged Shot        100.3208 / 1.848s  =  54.28/s
T4  Disintegrate        132.13   / 2.112s  =  62.56/s
T6  Lancer Shot         129.6829 / 2.112s  =  61.40/s
T7  Refractor Beam       55.0541 / 1.8484  =  29.79/s
T8  Piercing Beam       132.7415 / 2.508s  =  52.92/s

 

[tidge]

My BR toons are mostly on stand-bye these days, but from memory, my Sentinel's attack chain is:

 

Distintegrate -> Lancer Shot (same Target, to spread) -> Refractor Beam (or another AoE, even Piercing Beam which it is possible to get good at positioning for AoE). After this, it is usually alternating among (Disintegrating) targets for the ST attacks.

 

Sentinels can leverage Vulnerability more-or-less at will, so when compared to my Defender BR I find myself focusing much more on spreading Disintegration than any other tactical choice, especially considering BR debuffs. Annihilation in Piercing Beam is a slight compromise as it is %-Resistance along with the set's inherent attribute boosts.

[Uun]

On 8/2/2024 at 10:56 AM, Uun said:

Mids is wrong (they probably copied the stats for Entropic Aura). Neither Entropy Shield or Overload have any effect on enemies. Only Power Drain does.

Just checked Mids. The sentinel version of Entropy Shield has the correct stats but the incorrect text. They copied the text for Entropic Aura.

[Jacke]

38 minutes ago, Uun said:

Just checked Mids. The sentinel version of Entropy Shield has the correct stats but the incorrect text. They copied the text for Entropic Aura.

 

Should post a bug report on the MRB Discord so they can patch that.

[UberGuy]

21 hours ago, Jacke said:

The one thing that CoD2 can get wrong is which of the first two Powers in a Powerset are the T1 and T2 Powers (any thoughts, @UberGuy?).

 

Can you give me an example of this?

 

I believe powers are ordered in CoD the way they are in the game data. If there are powersets where the first power in the data is not the T1, then that's probably what's up. The in-power info should still say correctly what level it becomes available at, though, and I could probably sort based on that if I'm not already.

[Jacke]

43 minutes ago, UberGuy said:

Can you give me an example of this?

 

I believe powers are ordered in CoD the way they are in the game data. If there are powersets where the first power in the data is not the T1, then that's probably what's up. The in-power info should still say correctly what level it becomes available at, though, and I could probably sort based on that if I'm not already.

 

The problem is the T1 and T2 for all Powersets, Primary and Secondary, are now available at Level 1.  So sorting on Level isn't going to get this right.

 

A couple of Melee examples that are in the correct order: Broad Sword and Katana.

 

Examples in the wrong order: all the Beam Rifles, Blaster, Defender, Corruptor, and Sentinel, list them in the wrong order, first Charged Shot (the T2) then Single Shot (the T1).

 

I checked all Blaster Primaries in CoD2 and in-game.  Here's what's in the wrong order:

• Archery, Beam Rifle, Dual Pistols, Energy Blast, Fire Blast, Ice Blast, Sonic Attack.

Blaster Seismic Blast is in the correct order if Seismic Shockwave is ignored.

 

I imagine there's more.

[UberGuy]

Looks like a display bug. The raw data sent to the site has them in the correct order. I'll have to check the code, but my guess based on spot checking them is that the web page code is sorting them by level then name. If so, I can just remove that and the current data will show the right thing.