Request: Weapon Animations for Ranged Power Sets

[megaericzero]

8 hours ago, Rudra said:

Show me or provide a link. Because even micro weapons in a cyberpunk game are either single use, point-blank range attacks or are visible weapons.

 

Edit: And even the single use, point-blank attacks are obviously weapons after they have been used.

 

It's hard to find a concise list of examples since trope websites don't generally distinguish ballistics from lasers for built-in weaponry, and obscure media is obscure for a reason. Best I can give off-the-cuff is this from the manga Assassination Classroom:

 

Feel free to ding me for picking a non-cyberpunk example after explicitly naming that genre.

[Rudra]

16 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

It's hard to find a concise list of examples since trope websites don't generally distinguish ballistics from lasers for built-in weaponry, and obscure media is obscure for a reason. Best I can give off-the-cuff is this from the manga Assassination Classroom:

 

Feel free to ding me for picking a non-cyberpunk example after explicitly naming that genre.

I'm not going to ding you for it. Because just like with the Cyberpunk examples, it is a point-black, single shot attack. Even Cyberpunk has one-shot weapons like that. They aren't 0.1 caliber, but they do exist. Setting aside how tiny the bullet is in the provided example, it is a point-blank, single shot weapon that despite its concealability, is still visibly a weapon after firing it. What am I going to ding you on though, is that it is not a repeatable attack because it is a point-blank, single shot only attack. And I was under the impression you had evidence of a bullet-firing weapon that could be fired in automatic mode that lacks any discernable weapon feature. So, sorry, but I'm not accepting that. If you want to justify the Assault Rifle set not having any sort of visible weapon, even the integrated weapons I already listed, then I want proof of an assault rifle type weapon, integrated into the user, that lacks any weapon features. Gun arms? Have barrels most of the time, and a magazine sticking out of the arm. Wrist guns? Are tiny guns, sure, but they are right there on the wrist. And if they fire multiple times? Have some sort of visible magazine. Power armor style shoulder gatlings? Have the shoulder-mounted gatlings. (Edit: Hells, even Iron Man's repulsor beams have obvious emitters built into the palms. ... I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion before.... Anyway, so even those would need a weapon selection from the weapon drop down menu for something like Palm Blaster that places the weapon in the palm, provides an alternate animation so the palm is firing, and lines the emanation point with the attack. So that still wouldn't be a No Gun choice from the menu, it would be a Palm Weapon choice.)

 

So if you are going to tell me that there are examples of such that are so small they are basically just dots on the skin, I want to see them or be given a link to the source or be given directions to the source or at the very least have the source quoted to me so I can go looking for it.

 

Edited September 4 by Rudra

[TheMoneyMaker]

26 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Setting aside how tiny the bullet is in the provided example, it is a point-blank, single shot weapon that despite its concealability, is still visibly a weapon after firing it. What am I going to ding you on though, is that it is not a repeatable attack because it is a point-blank, single shot only attack.

 

Who cares if an example provided is a single shot when the realistic guns the game gives us provide infinite ammo without reload despite what they look like?  Nit. Pick.

[Rudra]

41 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Who cares if an example provided is a single shot when the realistic guns the game gives us provide infinite ammo without reload despite what they look like?  Nit. Pick.

It's an assault rifle set. Why would I accept a single-shot weapon that has maybe 5 feet range as justification?

[Chris24601]

To summarize; the sum total of the objection is “I can’t imagine it, therefore no one else is allowed to have it, even if they can imagine it.”

 

Do I have that correct?

[megaericzero]

9 hours ago, Rudra said:

I'm not going to ding you for it. Because just like with the Cyberpunk examples, it is a point-black, single shot attack. Even Cyberpunk has one-shot weapons like that. They aren't 0.1 caliber, but they do exist. Setting aside how tiny the bullet is in the provided example, it is a point-blank, single shot weapon that despite its concealability, is still visibly a weapon after firing it. What am I going to ding you on though, is that it is not a repeatable attack because it is a point-blank, single shot only attack. And I was under the impression you had evidence of a bullet-firing weapon that could be fired in automatic mode that lacks any discernable weapon feature. So, sorry, but I'm not accepting that. If you want to justify the Assault Rifle set not having any sort of visible weapon, even the integrated weapons I already listed, then I want proof of an assault rifle type weapon, integrated into the user, that lacks any weapon features. Gun arms? Have barrels most of the time, and a magazine sticking out of the arm. Wrist guns? Are tiny guns, sure, but they are right there on the wrist. And if they fire multiple times? Have some sort of visible magazine. Power armor style shoulder gatlings? Have the shoulder-mounted gatlings. (Edit: Hells, even Iron Man's repulsor beams have obvious emitters built into the palms. ... I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion before.... Anyway, so even those would need a weapon selection from the weapon drop down menu for something like Palm Blaster that places the weapon in the palm, provides an alternate animation so the palm is firing, and lines the emanation point with the attack. So that still wouldn't be a No Gun choice from the menu, it would be a Palm Weapon choice.)

 

So if you are going to tell me that there are examples of such that are so small they are basically just dots on the skin, I want to see them or be given a link to the source or be given directions to the source or at the very least have the source quoted to me so I can go looking for it.

 

It's actually not limited to point-blank but I'm not going to play the game we had in the Kheldian thread where you keep moving the goal post.

 

Cyborg 004.
"But his hands have banded joints and holes on his fingertips!"

Reisen Udongein Inaba (as a magic example)

"But that's manifesting them even though it's literal bullets firing from finger guns as her casting method!"

Astro Boy

"Even though it's lasers with no visible emitters, I'm going to say it couldn't possibly work for Beam Rifle so you'll have to deal with Energy Blast!"

Edited September 4 by megaericzero

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, megaericzero said:

Cyborg 004.
"But his hands have banded joints and holes on his fingertips!"

So you ask for an alternate animation where the character opens up the arm to fire the weapon like he does. (Edit: Yes, having a hand gun, as in a hand that is a gun, or an elbow gun/rocket works. Those are still weapons though and call for new animations for them. The rifle from the drop down would not be used, and instead you would choose Hand Gun or Elbow Gun from the list.)

 

2 hours ago, megaericzero said:

Reisen Udongein Inaba (as a magic example)

"But that's manifesting them even though it's literal bullets firing from finger guns as her casting method!"

Uses a megaphone shaped handgun.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Reisen_Udongein_Inaba

So that would be a megaphone added to the weapon list.

 

2 hours ago, megaericzero said:

Astro Boy

"Even though it's lasers with no visible emitters, I'm going to say it couldn't possibly work for Beam Rifle so you'll have to deal with Energy Blast!"

Converts his arms to blasters and pops machineguns out of his butt.

So for the arms, that would be an alternate animation that uses a gun arm for firing. And that gun arm cannon would be selected from the weapon drop down list. (Edit: And the machineguns would be like Franky from One Piece where the weapons pop out of the appropriate location. His butt for Astro Boy and the knuckles for Franky.)

 

In all cases. just like I said, they are using weapons.

 

Edit again: And the alternate animations would be linked to the appropriate weapon chosen from the weapon drop down menu to have the emanation points properly line up with what is going on. (I don't get why you and the others are so opposed to my responses. My responses give you what you say you want. You say you want shoulder guns, so have shoulder guns added to the weapon list so the animations line up. You want wrist guns? Have wrist guns added to the weapon list so the animations line up. You want bullets coming from your palms? Add palm guns to the weapon list so the animation and emanation points work for it. In all these cases, you would no longer be wielding a rifle of any kind, your weapons would be integrated. So why are you opposed to this and so fixated on No Gun which leaves the attack animation and emanation point not linked to what you want your character doing? I am giving responses that let you make what you are asking for.) (Edit yet again: Even the Grim Reaper's 0.1 caliber finger gun would need to be in the weapons drop down list to be chosen in order to have the correct animation and emanation point.)

 

Edited September 4 by Rudra

[TheMoneyMaker]

10 hours ago, Rudra said:

It's an assault rifle set. Why would I accept a single-shot weapon that has maybe 5 feet range as justification?

It's a game about superpowers that has guns that never run out of ammo and other impossible tech. Why should anyone else care or be limited by what you decide to accept?

[megaericzero]

33 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Uses a megaphone shaped handgun.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Reisen_Udongein_Inaba

So that would be a megaphone added to the weapon list.

The Touhou wiki does a disservice putting this tidbit in the Additional Information subsection:

"Reisen's right hand is often depicted to be making a gun shape, which leads to fan assumption that she shoots danmaku in this manner, and she indeed does in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody."

Scarlet Weather Rhapsody is canon, in case there's any question. She is fully capable of firing bullets from her bare fingers without her megaphone as a magic focus.

 

33 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Converts his arms to blasters and pops machineguns out of his butt.

 

He doesn't have to go full cannon; he can shoot lasers from his human-looking fingers outright.

(The example gif I'm trying to post keeps erroring, so I'll have to link it here.)

 

33 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So you ask for an alternate animation where the character opens up the arm to fire the weapon like he does. (Edit: Yes, having a hand gun, as in a hand that is a gun, or an elbow gun/rocket works. Those are still weapons though and call for new animations for them. The rifle from the drop down would not be used, and instead you would choose Hand Gun or Elbow Gun from the list.)

 

His fingers don't actually open up or transform, though. No compartments, no expanding, no visible devices beyond smooth hands; just tiny dots on his fingertips that go pew-pew.

(Oh, okay, I guess it's just gifs in general that don't work on the HC forums? Here's another gif link.)

 

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, megaericzero said:

The Touhou wiki does a disservice putting this tidbit in the Additional Information subsection:

"Reisen's right hand is often depicted to be making a gun shape, which leads to fan assumption that she shoots danmaku in this manner, and she indeed does in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody."

Scarlet Weather Rhapsody is canon, in case there's any question. She is fully capable of firing bullets from her bare fingers without her megaphone as a magic focus.

 

He doesn't have to go full cannon; he can shoot lasers from his human-looking fingers outright.

(The example gif I'm trying to post keeps erroring, so I'll have to link it here.)

 

His fingers don't actually open up or transform, though. No compartments, no expanding, no visible devices beyond smooth hands; just tiny dots on his fingertips that go pew-pew.

(Oh, okay, I guess it's just gifs in general that don't work on the HC forums? Here's another gif link.)

 

Fine, so add finger gun to the weapon drop down menu. You're still going to need to add these to the weapon drop down menu so the attack animation and emanation point link up to what you are portraying.

[TheMoneyMaker]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Fine, so add finger gun to the weapon drop down menu. You're still going to need to add these to the weapon drop down menu so the attack animation and emanation point link up to what you are portraying.

I believe I stated something to that effect earlier.  That's fine because you would have to do something to alter the animations from the standard gun holding ones to the point & and shoot.

[TheMoneyMaker]

21 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

If you are invulnerability (and various other power sets) there needs to be auras.  Oh wait no there doesn't.  Options exist to enhance player creativity.

 

But if you mean there must be an option on the costume customization menu, then I would point you to the same option that those no f/x power options have and just call that option "No weapon"

 

[Rudra]

Except you are saying "No Weapon" and I am saying "Palm Gun", "Finger Gun", et al. Because a No Weapon option is exactly that. It would just take away the weapon and I oppose that. Adding a Finger Gun, Palm Gun, Shoulder Gun, Elbow Gun, Wrist Gun, or whatever option is still adding weapons to the weapons list for players to choose from. Because you need those weapons on the list to be chosen in order for the game to apply the effects you are asking for.

[Triumphant]

For what it's worth, I do like the idea.  I'm all about freedom to customize the visual appearance of your toon.  No idea how difficult and time consuming it would be to do it, though, so practical considerations might keep this from being implemented.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

For what it's worth, I do like the idea.  I'm all about freedom to customize the visual appearance of your toon.  No idea how difficult and time consuming it would be to do it, though, so practical considerations might keep this from being implemented.

Setting aside the whole "No Weapon" argument, as far as the OP itself goes for giving the option of using staves for your attacks, it would be as difficult as adding a weapon menu to the various ranged power sets. That menu would have 2 choices, Default (nothing) and Staff with a second weapon drop down menu that comes up if you choose Staff to select which staff you want. (It would also require the CoT staff animations to be duplicated and modified to encompass all the existing attack animation times.)

 

Edited September 4 by Rudra
Edited to remove extra period.

[Triumphant]

It would be cool to have (for example) the snake staff for a wizard that can emit fireballs, lightning and so forth.  I actually feel like a came across a different topic to that effect, a while back.  Or maybe it was just about new (wizard-themed) powersets.  Still, it would be a fun option.  Hope the devs see this thread and it gets some traction at some point.  👍

[TheMoneyMaker]

34 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Except you are saying "No Weapon" and I am saying "Palm Gun", "Finger Gun", et al. Because a No Weapon option is exactly that. It would just take away the weapon and I oppose that. Adding a Finger Gun, Palm Gun, Shoulder Gun, Elbow Gun, Wrist Gun, or whatever option is still adding weapons to the weapons list for players to choose from. Because you need those weapons on the list to be chosen in order for the game to apply the effects you are asking for.

Semantics. "No weapon" option could be set to change the animation as well as remove the weapon.

[TheMoneyMaker]

I'm wondering, do you ever protest the use of the pressing imaginary buttons animation for things like summoning an ouroboros portal or robots MM summoning? Because most times there's nothing remotely resembling buttons on the player's costume on the arm where the imaginary buttons are pushed. You can even choose to have no costume there at all, just bare arms, and there's that beeping sound when the character presses the imaginary buttons.  That must drive you insane. Wouldn't your time be better spent protesting that be fixed with alternative animation and/or a temporary wrist device with buttons temporarily appearing during the animation?

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

I'm wondering, do you ever protest the use of the pressing imaginary buttons animation for things like summoning an ouroboros portal or robots MM summoning? Because most times there's nothing remotely resembling buttons on the player's costume on the arm where the imaginary buttons are pushed. You can even choose to have no costume there at all, just bare arms, and there's that beeping sound when the character presses the imaginary buttons.  That must drive you insane. Wouldn't your time be better spent protesting that be fixed with alternative animation and/or a temporary wrist device with buttons temporarily appearing during the animation?

For like the bots my some of my MMs use? For the one that is supposed to be using a forearm computer, I put a bracer that looks like I am using a forearm computer. Otherwise, no. The animations are what they are, and forearm computers like the Praetorian police use has already been requested to be available to players. There is a difference between making use of existing animations/requesting new animations, and stripping a power set of its identity by taking away what makes it what it is.

[TheMoneyMaker]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

For like the bots my some of my MMs use? For the one that is supposed to be using a forearm computer, I put a bracer that looks like I am using a forearm computer. Otherwise, no. The animations are what they are, and forearm computers like the Praetorian police use has already been requested to be available to players. There is a difference between making use of existing animations/requesting new animations, and stripping a power set of its identity by taking away what makes it what it is.

That's what you do. Doesn't it bother you that other people can use that without putting anything at all there? I mean it makes no logical sense if people are pressing buttons where none are and yet stuff happens. And I'm not saying strip those animations, I'm saying doesn't it bother you that they aren't fixing this problem by adding features that could make it make sense?

 

Because if not then I call b.s. on all your protesting in this topic.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Doesn't it bother you that other people can use that without putting anything at all there?

No. Why would it? The bots are the theme of that power set. Not how they are called. And the gun is the theme of Assault Rifle.

[TheMoneyMaker]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

No. Why would it? The bots are the theme of that power set. Not how they are called. And the gun is the theme of Assault Rifle.

I think you like to say no to things just to argue with people

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

No. Why would it? The bots are the theme of that power set. Not how they are called. And the gun is the theme of Assault Rifle.

I think you like to say no to things just to argue with people

Because I've never agreed with any suggestions on these forums ever. Uh huh. (Yes, I've supported several suggestions.) (Edit: Hells, I support the OP of this thread. I even pointed out to the author that his/her/their request for staff animations for non-weapon power sets is already partially feasible because it already exists to an extent among the lower level CoT mages.)

 

Your question if I am upset by how the bots get summoned to compare to my opposition of taking weapons away from weapon sets is a false comparison. How the bots get summoned is as much a who cares thing as how characters get their weapons. Who cares. How you get your bots and how you get your weapons is not relevant to the discussion because they have nothing to do with it. Now if you had asked how would I feel if the bots were able to be removed from the Robotics MM and yet still have the bots doing their attacks, that would be a good comparison to taking away weapons from weapon sets. (Note that I mean simply removing the pet models, not allowing different models to be used. Because allowing different models to be used is adding weapons to the weapon list, as opposed to a No Weapon request.) Like I said multiple times across multiple threads now, I oppose any suggestion that attempts to take away the theme of a power set. You want alternate animations? Got your back. You want alternate weapons/pets made available? I'm there with you. Stripping a power set of its identity though? Never.

 

Edited September 4 by Rudra

[biostem]

I'd just love some "hard-light-construct" weapon models!

[TheMoneyMaker]

23 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Because I've never agreed with any suggestions on these forums ever. Uh huh.

 

I didn't say you disagree with everything, I just suggested that you like arguing