Is it time to reimagine the Flight Pool?

[UltraAlt]

On 9/22/2024 at 12:52 PM, Lunar Ronin said:

Bingo.  I've been seeing nearly a month of people complaining, whining, filling up over a dozen pages of forum threads, attacking people that use Group Fly and insulting them... all because their problem was already solved years ago, but they won't take the two minutes to do it.

 

Main Problems

1) new players don't know about Null the Gull.

They don't tell you in the tutorials to go to Null the Gull to turn this-and-that off or to always accept or always refuse this or that.

 

2) Players forgot to turn go to Null the Gull to turn it off even if they know.

I have to say that I probably made 30-40 characters before someone reminded me about Null the Gull.

I have resorted my characters several times, and, honestly, at this point, I have no idea which ones of my first 100 characters have gone to Null the Gull.

One of the first things I do now when I bring a character into the game is to go to Null the Gull. Doesn't make much sense at this point to go back, relog all my characters that I think I created early on, take them all to Null the Gull, and check to see if they have it or not.

 

3) Some players don't think that the team leader has the right to boot players from the team even though they have the boot.

Those players are wrong. The team leader has the right to kick you. The DEVS gave the team leader the boot for a reason - and that is so that they CAN kick other players from THEIR team.

 

Solutions?

1) If group fly is a hassle for those on the team, maybe the first response from the group fly user should be that they are willing to wait while whoever else needs to go to Null the Gull to turn it off.

 

2) Regardless of what else is going on, if you are on someone else's team (the team leader's team - they have the star and the boot) and they ask you to turn it off, turn it off if you won't want to get the boot.

 

Personally, I think that the player that first brought up the subject was...

 

On 9/22/2024 at 12:52 PM, Lunar Ronin said:

complaining, whining, filling up over a dozen pages of forum threads, attacking people

 

... but that was another thread that I don't know if you were involved with or not.

 

They were mostly complaining not about "group fy", but because they were kicked from a team for using group fly when they were warned by the team lead that they would be booted if they didn't turn off group fly.

 

This thread was started to try to find ways for "group fly" to not be so annoying to other teammates ... as well as to revise the flight power pool in general ... because of that other thread.

If Group Fly could be made less annoying and/or so it didn't require a player to take their characters to Null the Gull in order to resolve the situation, it would be better off all the way around.

 

 

 

Edited September 24 by UltraAlt

[Hyperstrike]

Hey!  I want everything handed to me on an an enchanted Impervium platter!

BECAUSE *I* WANT IT!  GIMME GIMME GIMME!

[Videra]

I'd like to add that Hover has no inherent -fly protection. You explicitly have to build for your movement functionality to not be turned off. Jumping, Speed, what have you - do not have to do this. It costs an entire extra power pick (And an IO slot or two in order to be relatively fast) to safely be a flying character, as opposed to a character that has a different form of locomotion.

That's the only thing about Flight that needs to be re-imagined as a pool. Simply make it equivalent to every other travel pool in terms of mez prot and we can all live happily.

Edited September 25 by Videra

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Videra said:

I'd like to add that Hover has no inherent -fly protection. You explicitly have to build for your movement functionality to not be turned off. Jumping, Speed, what have you - do not have to do this. It costs an entire power pick (And an IO slot or two) to safely be a flying character, as opposed to a character that has a different form of locomotion.

That's the only thing about Flight that needs to be re-imagined as a pool. Simply make it equivalent to every other travel pool in terms of mez prot and we can all live happily.

What are you talking about? Super Speed has 0 protection against slows and immobilizes. Combat Jumping provides protection against immobilizes, but not against -jump speed or jump height. And Super Jump has no built in protections against anything.

[Videra]

15 minutes ago, Rudra said:

What are you talking about? Super Speed has 0 protection against slows and immobilizes. Combat Jumping provides protection against immobilizes, but not against -jump speed or jump height. And Super Jump has no built in protections against anything.

Correct, SS has zero protection against slows. Immobilizes are the only thing of concern on this front - Combat Jumping provides this, and is inherently faster than hovering via bunny-hopping. Almost every good build takes Combat Jumping for said Immobilize protection - whereas Flight as a pool has to spend a third power pick to acquire the same protection.

Super Speed + Combat Jumping is two powers, to explain. Fly + Hover + EM is three. This is setting aside that you have to spend more enhancement slots on capping flight speed (for both Hover and Fly) than you do on capping run speed or jump speed. I hope this explanation helps! 🙂

Edit: I'd like to add, as well, that Hasten is essentially one of the strongest power picks in the game. It just flat-out makes more sense to take Super Speed/Combat Jumping vs taking three powers to have equivalent Immob Protection, only to end up requiring more investment to be fast as well.

Edited September 25 by Videra

[Rudra]

51 minutes ago, Videra said:

Correct, SS has zero protection against slows. Immobilizes are the only thing of concern on this front - Combat Jumping provides this, and is inherently faster than hovering via bunny-hopping. Almost every good build takes Combat Jumping for said Immobilize protection - whereas Flight as a pool has to spend a third power pick to acquire the same protection.

Super Speed + Combat Jumping is two powers, to explain. Fly + Hover + EM is three. This is setting aside that you have to spend more enhancement slots on capping flight speed (for both Hover and Fly) than you do on capping run speed or jump speed. I hope this explanation helps! 🙂

Edit: I'd like to add, as well, that Hasten is essentially one of the strongest power picks in the game. It just flat-out makes more sense to take Super Speed/Combat Jumping vs taking three powers to have equivalent Immob Protection, only to end up requiring more investment to be fast as well.

And yet I can throw a simple tar patch on you and you can't jump out of it. Meanwhile, your running speed nose dives as well. Your comment was that:

 

1 hour ago, Videra said:

I'd like to add that Hover has no inherent -fly protection. You explicitly have to build for your movement functionality to not be turned off. Jumping, Speed, what have you - do not have to do this.

 

My point is that your comment is in error. The Leaping pool has no protection against -jump speed or jump height. And I don't need an immobilize to lock you out of jumping. The Speed pool has no protection against slow effects (edit: or any other mez effect for that matter). The Flight pool only worries about -fly effects if you are close enough to the ground. I don't care how often that Toxic Tarantula or other mob hits me with a -fly immobilize like its Web Spitter power, because I'm still going to be hovering up out of its ability to reach me. (So far, I've only seen Air Superiority knock my hovering characters to the ground while I'm hovering high enough.)

 

Edit: You can't look at the Fly pool as a standalone and compare it to combining the Leaping and Speed pools. I can just as easily take Combat Jumping with Fly for the immobilize protection as I can Combat Jumping with Super Speed.

 

Edited September 25 by Rudra

[shortguy on indom]

[Heliphyn34u]

On 9/18/2024 at 1:50 PM, Apogee said:

Air Superiority is the best single target defense power in the game, and it does damage.

 

I love Air Sup!  I don't take it on every toon, but it's very useful for damage and a sorta-mez -- mobs can't attack if they're flipping in the air or trying to get up (and the bigger they are, the longer they take -- take that, DE!).  Best part is the power is plenty useful without even adding any slots to it.

 

The Flight pool might need help, but getting rid of Air Sup ain't it.

 

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, Heliphyn34u said:

 

I love Air Sup!  I don't take it on every toon, but it's very useful for damage and a sorta-mez -- mobs can't attack if they're flipping in the air or trying to get up (and the bigger they are, the longer they take -- take that, DE!).  Best part is the power is plenty useful without even adding any slots to it.

 

The Flight pool might need help, but getting rid of Air Sup ain't it.

 

For a second I read that as "Air Supply"