MM primary also with matching secondary? (best synergy)

[benai]

Hallo,

 

after a longer break of playing CoH I am currently back and back to play MMs.

 

My current question is, is it only a good idea to match primary with secondary that have matching resist or def builds?

I know that MMs are McFrankslot Chaddingtons but is it better and least annoying to pair def+def/resist+resist with each other or is a mixture also a good option without the need of even more frankenslotting?

 

You have your 6 must use auras:

 

2 x +5% defense to all

1 x  +10% aoe defense

2 x +10% resistance to all

1 x +15% resistance + pet regen

 

which is combined:

  - 10% defense to all + 10% to aoe defense

  - 35% resistance

 

Defensive primaries:

Ninja (5 melee, 1 ranged), Beast (melee), Robots (ranged + defbuff for MM)

 

Resistent primaries:

Demons (melee + resistbuff for MM), Necros (5 melee, 1 ranged), Mercs (ranged)

 

mixed primaries:

Thugs (1 melee, 5 ranged)

 

 

Defensive secondaries:

Cold, Force Field, Time, Traps

 

Resistant secondaries:

Marine, Nature, Sonic, Thermal,

[Neiska]

Complimentary pairings are good, but others can be just as good too.

 

Robots/EA can be fantastic, even though one is defense and the other is resist.

 

Robots/Dark is another great pairing.

 

Demons/dark, demons and thugs pair with just about everything.

 

/Time goes well with any pet set too.

 

 I think it might be more important to sit and plan out a build, so you can get an idea of what your final values will be. And some things like debuff numbers aren’t always obvious either.

 

Anyway, tldr is you can make any pairing “work.” The biggest differences will be in play style, and how high of a difficulty you can solo. But don’t forget, sometimes the builds that don’t solo well, can prove to be some of the best support on a team too, especially on hard modes where debuffing is often what sets the tone of the team.

[Maelwys]

  

11 hours ago, benai said:

My current question is, is it only a good idea to match primary with secondary that have matching resist or def builds?

 

Nope.

The biggest thing is getting enemy ToHit chance floored against your pets; which can be attained via a combination of +Defense Buffs and -ToHit debuffs.
Robotics and Thugs and Ninjas can achieve that with almost any Secondary Powerset (like my Bots/Kin) and Beasts aren't far behind.

Buffing your henchmen's Damage Resistance is nice too; as is an AoE Heal and allied Mez Protection... but because of how Bodyguard mode works you'll typically get more mileage out of aiming for the Defence Softcap than Resistance Hardcap for your henchmen.
In reality since the Aura IOs grant 35% Resistance and even the Defensive Henchmen have a smattering of inherent resistances you'll end up with multiple layers anyway... and there are some powers (like Mercs Serum) which can put them at the Resistance cap natively.

All that said... if you want the best all-rounder secondary at present then it's hard to look past Marine Affinity.
+Def, +Res, +MaxHP, an AoE Heal and major levels of additional damage; a well-built Mercs/Marine or Demons/Marine is very much a force to be reckoned with.

  

11 hours ago, benai said:

You have your 6 must use auras:

 

1 x  +10% aoe defense

 

Worth noting that the Regular ATO is +10% AoE Def; but the Superior (Catalyzed version) is +15%.
 

Edited Thursday at 08:13 PM by Maelwys

[benai]

I prefer Ninjas and Mercs over all other primaries. After that comes Thugs.

If Beast doesnt have Fortify pack I would go with them as first choice of all even through they are currently the worst in damage and the perma howling also reduces damage because they cant attack. But i dont know which is the choice for beasts. You lose damage because of fortify pack and so you need either kinetics with fulcrum shift or marine with shifting tides to get your damage back again.

 

Demons are nice because of their high resist, heal, buff - feels like robots but only with resist instead of def.

 

Do you have a built for a well-build mercs or demons/marine MM?

Whast the current way to go for ninja?

Edited Thursday at 09:23 PM by benai

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, benai said:

Do you have a built for a well-build mercs or demons/marine MM?

 

Whast the current way to go for ninja?

I haven't redone a Mercs yet; but I was playing around with a Demons/Marine build last week that's less bodyguard-mode focused then my usual MMs (below).
Might give you some ideas at least.

zMastermind - Demons - Marine.mbd

Note that Mids doesn't show the 'Ember Shield Owner' resistance bubble buff by default - but rough master figures are:
[Without RoP] and [With RoP]
 

As for the Henchmen?

The Aura IOs plus Toroidal Bubble and Ember Shield are applying the following resistance buffs:

+54.4% Fire
+51.9% Smashing
+37.2% Lethal/Toxic
+34.7% Cold
+29.7% Energy/Negative/Psi
Demon pet inherent resistances are all over the place; but they're generally sitting at between 55-85% to most types with Barrier adding another 5% minimum.
They're also getting +22.87% to Melee/Ranged defense and +37.87% to AoE (before Barrier and Support/Lore Incarnates) with the Prince sitting at the same to Smashing/Lethal/Cold. And obviously the major +MaxHP, +Regeneration and +Recovery buffs and AoE Heal are nice as well.
(And then there're all those -Resistance debuffs, +Damage buffs and Shifting Tide procs...)

There are plenty of other examples kicking around - most notably in the Clear Speed Leaderboards thread.
I'm sure someone else on here could throw up a decent Mercs build...

Regarding Ninjas? As mentioned earlier, they can reach the softcap regardless of your secondary (~21.5% to Melee/Ranged and ~28.5 to AoE from slotted Train Ninjas alone; then throw in Maneuvers and Aura IOs and Incarnates) so you can pick whatever you like... however if you're looking for best performance? Up until very recently /Time (Power Boosted) was the standout all-round MM secondary; but now it's firmly /Marine.
 

Edited Thursday at 10:09 PM by Maelwys

[benai]

And with Hell on Earth you have a mule power like Gang Wars on Thugs and Soul Extraction on Necromancy which lets you more freely Frankenslot your MM.

The problem with the MM is it starts to get in the right direction when you have your Auras before that even when you have the rest they are still squishy. Which are at least 30Mill with luck.

And your minions are not only your lifeforce but also your main damage force (proccs, debuffs and actual attacks).

Resummoning them costs you a lot of time, energy, recasts of your 2 minion buffs and is all in all annoying.

 

My biggest problem is to focus on one char and go for it.

My current idea is either Mercs/Marine, Demon/Marine or Thugs/Marine.

 

Maybe Demons or Robotics would be best because of the owner shielding and in addition to that Demons can heal you while Robotics can heal themself via Protector Bots and Healing Drone. And both of them are quite good in terms of damage too. Mercs seem to hold the current trophy for best in damage and beast worst in damage because all the others got buffed. That doesnt mean they are bad  in terms of damage. But Demons and Robotics were always good (pre buff they were the leading primaries for an MM). Robotics is nice when you get the Assault Bots Naplam Rocket in place.

 

Thugs have for me the problem as soon as they spread or an Enforcer is gone or to far away they lose def, tohit and damage because of their leadership auras. And without Auras (from enhancement, leadership from Enforcer and player) they have no resist and no def expect of Bruiser at all. (I dont count the single Resist of the Enforcer) So my least favorable option of those that I like. 

I dont know how much of an area effect Serum or Fortify Pack has but it seem at least Serum has a large enough radius to always get all 6 Soldiers buffed. So the radius is much higher then the Enforcer Auras. For Fortify Pack I actually never payed that much attention towards it. But my guess is with Serum and Fortify Pack Hasten would be a good option to keep the buff permanently on your Minions.

 

Maybe I am overthinking this and in the end as long as you slot them correctly, which is a hassle in itself, it doesnt matter at all.

And for Neiskas tip to plan it out before. I was always bad in making builds in this game. I had a basic idea of what i need to slot but nothing for sure.

[Riverdusk]

I consider Necro a "mixed" set myself just because of how much tohit debuffing they throw around.  It doesn't take long for them to softcap themselves against most things (AV's excluded but even against them it can add up).  Throw some defense on them and they are safe that much faster.  My necro/cold end up not getting hit much at all even though I still end up a bit short of softcapping them even with the ice shields, arctic fog, maneauvers, and IO's.  It is close enough that one aoe debuff from the lich and they are usually there and quickly.  The arctic fog also helps shore up two of their resistance weaknesses (fire and energy).  Also, that tohit debuffing helps protect you as well (sort of like bots and demons shielding their owners).  Add in the sheer number of pets necro can throw at a problem and that they are the only MM that has a pet that actually taunts (specters), and I'm a big fan of necro now.  

 

I also have a merc/dark that I find very good and I can imagine merc/marine would also work well.

 

I also had good luck with both bot/cold and bot/time and even beast/cold.

 

I tried thug/marine and was underwhelmed.  I agree with you and finally discovered for myself by closely monitoring their defense stats while in action as I wondered why they often didn't seem as tough as I thought they should be.  It was exactly the reason you said, all too often some of them would get out of range (or be blocked from line of sight) of the enforcers and that critical defense would disappear.  I found I had to keep a VERY tight leash on thugs to keep them alive in the tougher stuff.  For those that are really good at keeping them tight I'm sure they are great, but I found them more hassle than it was worth due to that issue.

 

I do think demon/marine should be a good pick and one I'm thinking of trying at some point.  And demon's shield has a 60 foot radius compared to thug enforcers 30 foot, so a lot more forgiving.

 

Will also have to try ninja at some point, it is the only MM primary I haven't yet to a decent level.

 

 

 

[benai]

Mercs and Beast are very much depending on you activitating their survival skill Serum or Fortify Pack and keep it active. As far as my gameplay knowledge takes me which can only be kept up by having a good amount of recharge, global recharge and hasten. Serum is here the better version (you dont lose damage like with Fortify Pack but you gain damage) when you can get it into perma and fast enough to counterplay the decay.

And your Beasts Howl and Roar have a 15 second duration but a 60 second cooldown. And the effect of recharge is not an option. That puts you even more on jeopardy to survive and do damage. Whats dead cant do damage, gain loot or have fun.

 

Then you have those on the other hand like Necro (Soul Extraction), Demons (Hell on Earth), Thugs (Gang Wars) were you get a hugh damage burst when you use these abilities. Which is from my perspective a good chunk of their damage potential the faster the recharge the better. But you dont lose your minions when you dont keep track like with Serum and Fortify Pack. While I would prefer Demons over Thugs and Necro in this case.

 

Ninjas (maybe belong also in the second categorie because of Smoke Bomb (stealth and stealth attack)) and Bots (Maintenance Drone) seem to be strong just with their two equip powers and Maintenance Drone is a nice gimmik. 

 

Yeah, Necro and Dark are very strong in the "you cant hit me" field.

 

But when I reread this whole topic again in the end Ninjas or Bots seem to match my taste the best. They are not massively depending on a skill like Mercs or Beasts and dont lose damage when you are not on high recharge due to Smoke Bomb has a far lower recharge by default.

 

So that left me with Ninja/Time/Mace, Ninja/Marine/....... or Bots/......./......... (FF, CD, Time with Mace or maybe Marine and Kinetics).

 

Edited 21 hours ago by benai