Process to request alterations to Homecoming Policies

[Super Atom]

i fucking love homecoming

 

i also love gadgets and utility belts

 

i wish those two could be connected somehow, so i could love homecoming so much more with all my lil heart

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

The GM team should know where they, internally, stand on issues, so we don't have, as the most recent example, a GM tell us to request a feature that the GMs have already internally decided will not be done. It just creates less work for everyone involved.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but this assumes that they already have a policy in place for every (hypothetical) scenario/suggested addition.  If they don't, or if all of the GMs aren't already aware, then they'll default to normal processes... 

[Shin Magmus]

     What about a pinned post of "Never Gonna Happen" suggestions?  You know, like a bulleted (and editable) quick reference list of things that were suggested but are confirmed shot down and never happening?  Such a post would be easy enough to edit with links to the other threads (cite your sources).  As the most helpful person here, it was easy for me to think up this excellent idea.  I even have 2 nominations for the first things that should go onto the "Never Gonna Happen" list.

 

1 - Bugfixing the broken Brute +Fury ATO (it's clear that Brutes getting less Fury from hitting enemies higher level than them, and more Fury from hitting enemies lower level than them, is intelligent game design and WAI).

 

2 - The in-game memorial suggestions (just link to the closed threads and make it be totally clear).

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

What about a pinned post of "Never Gonna Happen" suggestions?

I highly doubt they'd want a "we're never gonna do these things" post/section.  Not only would it look bad, but it also precludes them from ever actually addressing or changing their minds about things at a later date.  IMHO, and at least from an operations standpoint, it's better to maintain "soft policies" that may change at a later date, (however unlikely that may in fact be).

Edited Tuesday at 09:28 PM by biostem

[Shin Magmus]

3 minutes ago, biostem said:

I highly doubt they'd want a "we're never gonna do these things" post/section.  Not only would it look bad, but it also precludes them from ever actually addressing or changing their minds about things at a later date.  IMHO, and at least from an operations standpoint, it's better to maintain "soft policies" that may change at a later date, (however unlikely that may in fact be).

     You think transparency looks bad; I do not.  We will have to agree to disagree... EXCELLENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Super Atom]

I've got a couple "never gonna happens" for your list

 

1. Expanded Color palette
2. Guardians
3. Customized MM pets
4. Reverting HC's Rage change
5. Running ontop of water with SS
6. Global KB > KD IO
7. Kinetic Melee buff
8. Psi Melee passive change
9. Crystal and Lava variants for Granite
10. Wind Control
11. Expanding the Radio
12. A new Melee or Armor set
13. Energy Blast buffs
14. Archery buffs
15. Domination rework
16. Vehicle travel powers
17. Coyote / Panther being able to use SS/SJ
18. AE doors outside of AE
19. Rain effects in zones
20. More costume slots
21. Multiple aura's not from Aethers
22. Rocket launcher model for ASMR rocket
23. Throwable hotdog temp power
24. Boat travel powers
25. a new MM primary
26. Stacking sentinel passive + sentinel damage increase
27. Presence pool
28. P2W vendor having no group fly option instead of null
29. updated graphics
30. Male skirts

Edited Wednesday at 12:04 AM by Super Atom

[Indystruck]

11 minutes ago, biostem said:

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but this assumes that they already have a policy in place for every (hypothetical) scenario/suggested addition.  If they don't, or if all of the GMs aren't already aware, then they'll default to normal processes... 

 

I acknowledge it's impossible to have pre-emptive rules in place for everything, but this most recent example, Widower's response post mentioned it had already been internally decided since the last memorial NPCs went live (i27, which was four years ago). I'm not saying they need to have branching policies to acknowledge hypotheticals here, I'm saying that decisions they made that had been made for years? It's reasonable to assume that there'd be some internal policy list that they could point to and go 'hey, this is a no'.

[biostem]

Just now, Shin Magmus said:

You think transparency looks bad; I do not.  We will have to agree to disagree... EXCELLENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No.  I think saying "never" is bad.  I think saying "these things will not be changed/implemented ever" is bad.  I think saying responding that "this is the decision we have come to, for now", in response to a particular inquiry, is sufficient...

[Super Atom]

Just now, biostem said:

No.  I think saying "never" is bad.  I think saying "these things will not be changed/implemented ever" is bad.  I think saying responding that "this is the decision we have come to, for now", in response to a particular inquiry, is sufficient...

 

That's a non-answer. I'd rather them just be honest and say "We dont wanna do that" and if that changes at some point, cool.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Indystruck said:

I acknowledge it's impossible to have pre-emptive rules in place for everything, but this most recent example, Widower's response post mentioned it had already been internally decided since the last memorial NPCs went live (i27, which was four years ago). I'm not saying they need to have branching policies to acknowledge hypotheticals here, I'm saying that decisions they made that had been made for years? It's reasonable to assume that there'd be some internal policy list that they could point to and go 'hey, this is a no'.

Sure, but that's different than suggesting some sort of list regarding things that will never be implemented.  This was one specific subject that they just so happened to already have made a decision about.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Super Atom said:

That's a non-answer. I'd rather them just be honest and say "We dont wanna do that" and if that changes at some point, cool.

And they provided an answer when the topic came up. 

[Super Atom]

Just now, biostem said:

And they provided an answer when the topic came up. 

 

Yeah but thats just false hope, no need to give anyone that. A direct and definite "no" is cleaner and more honest. It also doesn't mean they can't change their minds later because no one is going to be like "um u said never so u betetr not"

[biostem]

Just now, Super Atom said:

Yeah but thats just false hope, no need to give anyone that. A direct and definite "no" is cleaner and more honest. It also doesn't mean they can't change their minds later because no one is going to be like "um u said never so u betetr not"

What's "false hope" about providing an answer?  

[Super Atom]

Just now, biostem said:

What's "false hope" about providing an answer?  

 

Because implying you MAY change your mind is giving someone false hope there's a chance. I don't like the wording, It's too dishonest for me. Clean and clear "No" or "No plans to add this" or "This doesn't fit our current vision" is far better.

[Indystruck]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

Sure, but that's different than suggesting some sort of list regarding things that will never be implemented.  This was one specific subject that they just so happened to already have made a decision about.

 

Right, which they should at least know internally about.

[Shin Magmus]

1 minute ago, Super Atom said:

 

Yeah but thats just false hope, no need to give anyone that. A direct and definite "no" is cleaner and more honest. It also doesn't mean they can't change their minds later because no one is going to be like "um u said never so u betetr not"

     False hope is one of the least excellent things I can think of.  As a concept, it is almost intrinsically guaranteed to do more harm than good, in basically any and all contexts.  I agree with you, but I embrace the rigidity of logic and fact: free of wishy-washy non-answers.  The nice thing about real objective answers is that they also preempt the creation of more threads which lead nowhere and end up locked... but now we're discussing a solution to prevent the same thread from re-appearing 2 months later... and again and again in a cycle of time-wasting despair.

[biostem]

Just now, Indystruck said:

Right, which they should at least know internally about.

In a perfect world, sure.  From a volunteer staff who are possibly in different time zones and have lives outside of HC, not so much.  This isn't a full time professional staff that are only concerned with this game...

[Super Atom]

Just now, biostem said:

In a perfect world, sure.  From a volunteer staff who are possibly in different time zones and have lives outside of HC, not so much.  This isn't a full time professional staff that are only concerned with this game...

 

I don't like this. You're implying Homecoming can't do basic things even FPS clans pull off

 

Help @GM Bot  ACTIVATE AUTO EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER PROTOCOLS

[biostem]

Just now, Super Atom said:

I don't like this. You're implying Homecoming can't do basic things even FPS clans pull off

No, I am implying that they are human beings, doing a thankless job which only seems to get the ire out of people who expect perfection.

[Indystruck]

I don't think it's a perfect world level ask to say, hey, this was in place four years ago. You should probably make sure your team has, internally, been aware of this. I'm not saying "whoa, you made this decision 3 hours ago on the US east coast, why doesn't the guy who lives in Finland know about it yet," four years is an awful lot of time.

[Super Atom]

Just now, biostem said:

No, I am implying that they are human beings, doing a thankless job which only seems to get the ire out of people who expect perfection.

 

I don't think keeping basic notes is really a perfection thing, and the homecoming team seems pretty thorough in that area to me man.

 

Also, Cobalt if you see this i actually do love the lab of fog, don't let haters get you down man you did great.

[biostem]

Just now, Indystruck said:

I don't think it's a perfect world level ask to say, hey, this was in place four years ago. You should probably make sure your team has, internally, been aware of this. I'm not saying "whoa, you made this decision 3 hours ago on the US east coast, why doesn't the guy who lives in Finland know about it yet," four years is an awful lot of time.

And the issue only really came up like a day ago.  You assume that they are aware of all policies at all times.  Someone asked for something to be implemented, and within a few hours we got an official answer.  Doesn't seem to bad to me from a volunteer staff.

[Shin Magmus]

2 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

 

I don't think keeping basic notes is really a perfection thing, and the homecoming team seems pretty thorough in that area to me man.

 

Also, Cobalt if you see this i actually do love the lab of fog, don't let haters get you down man you did great.

     Cobalt is busy making every single cool thing in the game and being the absolute best Dev.  He doesn't have time to fritter away with us here.

[Indystruck]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

And the issue only really came up like a day ago.  You assume that they are aware of all policies at all times.  Someone asked for something to be implemented, and within a few hours we got an official answer.  Doesn't seem to bad to me from a volunteer staff.

 

Well... no. It hasn't only come up a day ago. There's been other memorial NPC request topics, they just sort of fell into the aether without a official response. Heraclea being the other one I remember most recently. In fact, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the only reason this one got a response is because there was a memorial topic, with a topic questioning memorials right above it on the same forum, and both were receiving a lot of activity. Which in of itself isn't great if the only way to get an answer is just having combative and inflammatory forum posts going back and forth.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Super Atom said:

I don't think keeping basic notes is really a perfection thing, and the homecoming team seems pretty thorough in that area to me man.

Basic notes?  About a topic that really doesn't come up all that often?  "Basic notes" would be things like what kinds of behaviors warrant what kinds of corrective actions, not every policy or request that has been or may be implemented.  Neither of us know their internal processes or workings, so maybe there is, in fact, a good reason as to why they couldn't provide a concrete answer immediately...