Enhanced Threat Duration

[Scarlet Shocker]

I was playing a brute, not an AT I play often and I realised when coming to sort out some enhancements, that one took "Threat Duration" enhancements.

 

I don't think I've ever encountered that before. I am guessing it's akin to Taunt but it's not Taunt... so is it one of those oddities like Snare vs Slow?

 

Is it ever going to be possible to rationalise some of our Enhancements or is that a vain hope? I'm thinking that some (I'm looking at Interrupt) are pretty well totally obsolete and it might be nice to clear the guff but I can also imagine it may be a massive task for little reward.

 

Thoughts!

[Hedgefund]

Threat enhances either Taunt or Placate.  Taunt enh has been around a while but when the devs gave placate the ability to be enhanced they used the same sets and gave a more general name.  Seems like perfectly reasonable rationale to me.  

[Scarlet Shocker]

I'm certainly not complaining, but I obviously missed that update.

 

But yes, I <think> it makes more sense... but just to be clear it improves the time your taunt/placate affects an enemy, correct?

[Maelwys]

Yep. And more to the point the introduction of Threat Duration sets also allow you to use your Placate (the Stalker/VEAT Power) base enhancement slot for boosting multiple aspects or a psi damage proc.

 

Back when they were just "Taunt Duration" I also found the Taunt/Range IOs pretty handy to slot in melee AT taunt abilities, particularly on toons that could fly. I remember hovertanking a lot of nasty AVs back on live that way (keeping their attention whilst outranging their attacks).

 

Also IIRC once you surpass the target's required mez protection (typically mag3/4) the Longer the Taunt Duration effect the more an enemy's attention focuses on you. Take two tanks and the one with the longer duration Taunt is always the one that ends up holding the aggro.

[Uun]

BTW, this change occurred over 3 years ago (11/2021).

[ZemX]

On 1/18/2025 at 4:39 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

but just to be clear it improves the time your taunt/placate affects an enemy, correct?

 

It's a lot weirder than that.  Most people assume taunt is like an AI override.  i.e. That it makes an enemy attack you for a certain length of time (the duration of the taunt).  But this is not how it works.  What keeps an enemy focused on you is a value called "Threat".  Think of each NPC as having its own enemies list ranked by who it thinks is the biggest threat to its existence.   Everyone who has attacked that NPC gets on the list and starts racking up Threat points as they attack, debuff, control, etc.  Person with the highest threat number wins that NPC's attention.  

 

The taunt effect is essentially a multiplier.  For the person who has put a taunt on that NPC, everything they do while that taunt lasts has its threat value multiplied.  This is how a Tanker who does much less damage than a Blaster can still keep the attention of the NPC.  It's like hitting for 10 damage and having it hate you like you just hit it for 1000 damage.

 

The weird part is that multiplication factor is based on how much time is remaining on the taunt.  So hit them with Tanker 41 second Taunt ranged power and then Brawl afterwards will do many many times more threat than hitting Brawl again just before the Taunt expires.  If that makes sense.

 

Happily, this is all pretty much irrelevant and only matters when you're teamed with another person who is ALSO taunting.  And I don't know about you, but that doesn't usually concern me all that much.  I'd only consider using Threat set IOs if I was looking for a particular set bonus or for a proc.  Otherwise, don't need them.  Taunt, even unmodified, is such a large threat multiplier that nobody is stealing aggro from you in most normal situations.  Maybe if a Blaster has been blasting at some AV for a while and you're late to the fight trying to catch up on threat... I dunno.  Like I said, never bother with it and never have trouble holding aggro on a team.

[tidge]

7 minutes ago, ZemX said:

The taunt effect is essentially a multiplier.  For the person who has put a taunt on that NPC, everything they do while that taunt lasts has its threat value multiplied.  This is how a Tanker who does much less damage than a Blaster can still keep the attention of the NPC.  It's like hitting for 10 damage and having it hate you like you just hit it for 1000 damage.

 

^This^ also explains why it isn't difficult to strip aggro away from a character only relying on a 'taunt aura'.

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

^This^ also explains why it isn't difficult to strip aggro away from a character only relying on a 'taunt aura'.

To be fair, most of the armor auras have a base duration of ~13.5s which isn't too bad.
Willpower's Rise to the Challenge has a base duration of just 1.25s. You can peel aggro off it with a rolled up newspaper... 🤷‍♂️

[tidge]

2 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

To be fair, most of the armor auras have a base duration of ~13.5s which isn't too bad.
Willpower's Rise to the Challenge has a base duration of just 1.25s. You can peel aggro off it with a rolled up newspaper... 🤷‍♂️

 

I don't really go out of my way to play that game, but I think there is often more going on than some players using a 'taunt aura' realize... it could be that many auras require ToHit checks,  for example. These sorts of things are hard to observe in solo play, certainly in terms of 'keeping aggro', so my opinion is that some players overestimate how good their semi-passive aggro management actually is on teams.

 

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, Maelwys said:

Willpower's Rise to the Challenge has a base duration of just 1.25s. You can peel aggro off it with a rolled up newspaper... 🤷‍♂️

 

Hmm... not quite sure about that.  It appears to also redirect to Gauntlet Proc Aura which applies un-enhanceable 14.96s taunt mag 4 to all targets.  

 

A bit odd.

 

I haven't played Willpower specifically but in my experience taunt auras are fine to hold the mobs near you assuming you're also attacking them with AoE and single-target powers.  At least this works for me on Tankers.  I only use ranged Taunt to grab aggro at a distance.  Not to taunt mobs already next to me.

 

I think taunt auras that also apply several debuffs are especially good at holding aggro because each of those debuffs also adds significant threat which is multiplied by the taunt.  Faster pulsing auras naturally accumulate threat faster too.  There is some variability in activate periods for auras in different sets.

 

[Uun]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

Hmm... not quite sure about that.  It appears to also redirect to Gauntlet Proc Aura which applies un-enhanceable 14.96s taunt mag 4 to all targets.  

This is true for tankers and brutes, but scrappers only get the 1.25s duration. Similar setup with Energy Aura and Entropic Aura. Brutes redirect to a 13.6s mag mag 4 aura but scrappers only get 2.25s mag 3.

[Maelwys]

The Proc Aura gets a bit wonky in the auras IIRC... although admittedly it's been a whiles since I looked at it properly.


It certainly used to be the case that if you took an INV running Invincibility (for example) and a WP running RTTC and stood them both next to the same mob then the INV always won without even trying. It's possible that may have changed in recent patches, but WP is such a sucky set that I can't quite muster up the desire to roll one up on the live servers to check. However a very quick and dirty brainstorm test suggests that 3/3 Possessed Scientists prefer to focus on a different Tanker (even when it just stands there like a lemon whilst the WP is actively wailing on them...)

[twozerofoxtrot]

50 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

The Proc Aura gets a bit wonky in the auras IIRC... although admittedly it's been a whiles since I looked at it properly.

 

This is even moreso for SR for some reason. After hearing about it from the great dragon of Everlasting I started paying closer attention and SR tanks can peel pretty much anything. 

 

I did a UG once and without intending to, flipped the Infested War Walker around and got a bunch of people killed. I wasn't even attacking 😕

 

My fan theory is that the scaling Dam Res from SR's three powers somehow triggers a mobs threat list and it registers as you buffing yourself three times every half second.