A small number of more focused questions.

[Seroster01]

Given that my other thread got 0 responses (that weren't me) , let's try a smaller, more focused set of inquiries:

 

What is the optimal Widow ST rotation & how much +Rech is needed for it?  Is Spin even worth using with its end cost? What about Eviscerate?  Trying to not be completely useless at AoE.

 

Do people who have fully IOd out Widows have problems with Endurance? Cause I certainly do at 30. In a similar vein, how much End use/sec would y'all say is too much when fully kitted out? Basically trying to establish how many & which toggles I can run & still be functional.

 

I've survived thus far without Aid Self, is it worth the power & enhancement slots needed to be useful?  Ditto for Field Medic, but I'm not worried about the slots there, just getting the End recovery.

 

Please don't feel pressured to give input on all of these questions.  If folks have input on any individual piece that's all I want.  That's all for now, hopefully this will lead to more discussion.

[Auroxis]

Optimal Widow ST chain is: Slash - Strike - Follow Up - Lunge - Strike and requires around +180% global recharge.

Best chain is: Slash - Follow Up - Lunge - Strike and requires around +270% global recharge.

 

Eviscerate is skippable.

[Redlynne]

I've survived thus far without Aid Self, is it worth the power & enhancement slots needed to be useful?  Ditto for Field Medic, but I'm not worried about the slots there, just getting the End recovery.

 

I've looked at Field Medic repeatedly in Pine's and have never been able to justify it to myself on the grounds that although Field Medic "helps" Aid Self, it doesn't do so enough to yield a "break even" (let alone positive return) on the endurance cost of using Aid Self in the first place.  Either that or I'm just not accounting for all the factors involved.

[Figment_]

I've used Field medic pretty often on my Widow, you still have to sort of back out of combat to activate it, then aid self, then back in swinging, but the boost to the heal is pretty nice, plus I seem to get a large amount of endurance back over time.  It more than pays for itself for what I've experienced.    I haven't crunched actual numbers, but I've been at about 25% end, then hit field medic and aid self and 5 seconds later enjoying a filling or full bar.  Anecdotal evidence for sure, but I've experienced an endurance surplus from the two skills.

 

 

In solo play, I'll pop field medic right before I go into a clutch fight, and then aid self is ready for those early hits through soft cap.  It seems to allow for an incredible amount of sustain for longer fights. 

 

 

[Wintervoid]

I only have a Mid 30's Fortuna, so my input may be off.

 

First, strictly looking at DPA, it seems like Dart Burst is the way to go.  I believe base recharge is 8 seconds, so with some decent Recharge that can be your only AoE and you still can almost spam it.  Of course, I do lose some time with a quick backstep out of combat, but I still think it is better then Spin. 

 

Second, Aid Self definitely seems worth it. 

[Seroster01]

Optimal Widow ST chain is: Slash - Strike - Follow Up - Lunge - Strike and requires around +180% global recharge.

Best chain is: Slash - Follow Up - Lunge - Strike and requires around +270% global recharge.

 

Eviscerate is skippable.

 

As mentioned I'd like to have at least 1 AOE power.  If you had to pick one, would you suggest Spin or Eviscerate? Eviscerate seems to be much more End efficient IIRC.  Pines says it has both much higher damage & costs a smidge less End, but I'm not sure how many mobs it can reliably hit.

 

As a more direct follow up to the ST rotation answer, 2 things have me a bit confused:

 

a.) Why did you list different "Optimal" and "Best" chains?  Wouldn't a rotation that qualified as one automatically be the other? Obviously one requires a lot better of a build, but if funds aren't a factor what would be a reason for or against either rotation?

 

b.) I've always been confused on the global recharge values given out like this. Does +270% global recharge mean I'd have to get that 270% total from +recharge set bonuses, widow powers & hasten? Cause I've only got 110% bonus recharge from sets in my build. I planned for unlimited funds but skipped Hasten, so IDK how you'd get to 270% total from those sources.  Is it supposed to "include" the base 100%, so that I'd need 170% "bonus"?  Or perhaps the 270% goal includes the value gained from recharge enhancements slotted into the powers?  If so, does every power need the same amount in that scenario,  or do the individual powers have different goals?  I've had a lot of confusion about this when I see +recharge totals come up on the forums.

 

Thanks for the responses so far!

[Seroster01]

I only have a Mid 30's Fortuna, so my input may be off.

 

First, strictly looking at DPA, it seems like Dart Burst is the way to go.  I believe base recharge is 8 seconds, so with some decent Recharge that can be your only AoE and you still can almost spam it.  Of course, I do lose some time with a quick backstep out of combat, but I still think it is better then Spin. 

 

Second, Aid Self definitely seems worth it.

 

I haven't looked at dart burst much because it seemed like it'd be a pain to position properly, I'll scope it out in Pine's tomorrow.  That being said, if you're judging these things off of DPA, wouldn't having to step back for better positioning wipe out some/all of the DPA advantage?

 

I played basically all day today with Eviscerate.  My general feedback is it hits pretty hard & it feels satisfying to pull off a good one, but as I feared it's hard to position.  Its recharge time also feels really long, but that's probably cause my build isn't close to complete & on top of that it's not very well enhanced currently.  Not sure how I'd compare it to Spin, cause Spin seemed a lot easier to hit a lot of targets with, but not nearly as efficient in terms of either AOE DPS (for the ones it managed  to hit) or Endurance Costs.

[Auroxis]

On 7/3/2019 at 9:40 AM, Seroster01 said:

Quote

Optimal Widow ST chain is: Slash - Strike - Follow Up - Lunge - Strike and requires around +180% global recharge.

Best chain is: Slash - Follow Up - Lunge - Strike and requires around +270% global recharge.

 

Eviscerate is skippable.

 

As mentioned I'd like to have at least 1 AOE power.  If you had to pick one, would you suggest Spin or Eviscerate? Eviscerate seems to be much more End efficient IIRC.  Pines says it has both much higher damage & costs a smidge less End, but I'm not sure how many mobs it can reliably hit.

 

As a more direct follow up to the ST rotation answer, 2 things have me a bit confused:

 

a.) Why did you list different "Optimal" and "Best" chains?  Wouldn't a rotation that qualified as one automatically be the other? Obviously one requires a lot better of a build, but if funds aren't a factor what would be a reason for or against either rotation?

 

b.) I've always been confused on the global recharge values given out like this. Does +270% global recharge mean I'd have to get that 270% total from +recharge set bonuses, widow powers & hasten? Cause I've only got 110% bonus recharge from sets in my build. I planned for unlimited funds but skipped Hasten, so IDK how you'd get to 270% total from those sources.  Is it supposed to "include" the base 100%, so that I'd need 170% "bonus"?  Or perhaps the 270% goal includes the value gained from recharge enhancements slotted into the powers?  If so, does every power need the same amount in that scenario,  or do the individual powers have different goals?  I've had a lot of confusion about this when I see +recharge totals come up on the forums.

 

Thanks for the responses so far!

 

Regarding Optimal vs. Best, getting that level of recharge requires a lot of investment to the point where you have to specifically build for it instead of building going for other options like resists, regen and recovery. Meanwhile you can build for the optimal chain, and if you get buffed by a teammate you can use the best chain.

 

Here's a build that aims for the best rotation, you'll see it's very focused on that one goal and has to rely on teammates for survivability.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- SprSpdBit-Rchg/Global Toxic:50(A), SprSpdBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(5)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 2: Strike -- SprSpdBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(3), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg:50(3)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), RedFrt-Def:50(5), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), RedFrt-Def/Rchg:50(42), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx:50(43), RedFrt-EndRdx:50(43)
Level 6: Dart Burst -- Rgn-Knock%:50(A), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), Rgn-Acc/Rchg:50(45), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg:50(46)
Level 8: Follow Up -- CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(A), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(9), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(9), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg:50(11), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(11), GssSynFr--Build%:50(34)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(33)
Level 12: Lunge -- SprDmnofA-Rchg/DmgFear%:50(A), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13), SprDmnofA-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(23), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg:50(23), TchofDth-Dam%:40(31)
Level 14: Spin -- Arm-Dam%:50(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(15), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(15), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(17), Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(17)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 18: Slash -- Hct-Dam%:50(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx:50(19), Hct-Acc/Rchg:50(19), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(21), Hct-Dmg/Rchg:50(21), TchofDth-Dam%:40(39)
Level 20: Mask Presence -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(A), LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(45)
Level 22: Foresight -- RedFrt-EndRdx:50(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx:50(34), RedFrt-Def:50(34), RedFrt-Def/Rchg:50(36), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36)
Level 24: Mind Link -- Rct-ResDam%:50(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25), Rct-Def/Rchg:50(25), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg:50(27), Rct-Def/EndRdx:50(27), Rct-Def:50(29)
Level 26: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), RedFrt-EndRdx:50(36), RedFrt-Def:50(37), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), RedFrt-Def/Rchg:50(37), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx:50(42)
Level 28: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx:30(31), GldArm-End/Res:50(33), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(42)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), RedFrt-EndRdx:50(33), RedFrt-Def:50(39), RedFrt-Def/Rchg:50(39), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 38: Mental Training -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 41: Mace Blast -- Apc-Dam%:50(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), Apc-Acc/Rchg:50(46), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), Apc-Dmg/Rchg:50(50)
Level 44: Shatter Armor -- Hct-Dmg:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(50)
Level 47: Summon Blaster -- ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx:50(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg:50(48), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 1: Conditioning 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(7), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(7)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), EndMod-I:50(29), EndMod-I:50(31)
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: Marshal 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally 
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement 
------------
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Edited July 24, 2019 by Auroxis