Wintervoid

I have an old Beast/Kin, and it was a buzzsaw once you get FS. Kin is light on survivability, but the damage is legit. I paired with Beast so I could cap Damage AND defense on my pets, but I have always been curious how Kin would be on other sets.

I have this combo, and it is quite fun. I agree with oedipus_tex that DP is not used/needed for the drain. I also agree that it is somewhat low damage. But with Shockwave, it does okay w/ AoE. The combo is very tanky though. Throw down sleep, jump in the middle and kill everything around you. Shockwave may wake them up for a few seconds, but they generally use that time to rush you....which means tighter packed AoEs. Pretty soon, they are drained anyway, and they just gather around you helplessly to die. I went with /mind so I could soft cap most positions because I didn't feel like I needed anymore drain then Conductive Aura.

Conductive Aura is the answer imo. That basically means that you are a Dom or Controller in Electric Control. Add in the pets draining a bit, and that is about all you need. You can add Electric fences and/or Jolt but they are mainly unnecessary vs anything short of an EB. End Drain becomes something that just 'happens' when you wade into a fight. You can focus your active play on other aspects such as damage, control or support while also providing passive soft control after 7-10 seconds.

First off, thanks to everyone for the feedback. Coyote, that was my mindset. Thanks for confirming it. As far as AoE defense, I actually didn't try for AoE, it just kind of happened. Actually, i started just with Ranged, and with the Winter sets I noticed that most of my type defense was nearing cap (besides S/L and Psi) so I decided to see if I could cap them (Settled on capping with Alpha slot.....figure I will have Alpha by the time I have all the Purples anyway....) AoE ended up near cap as well, so was pretty easy to just adjust a bit. Psi is handled by Indomitable will...but not perma like Link Minds/Hasten/Domination. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something before I sunk a billion into getting it purpled out. So far at 44 it has been fun and seems reasonably powerful. Great solo and decent on teams...except when I was teamed with some Vet Level Incarnates. I felt a bit weak then :P

So I am working on my Elec/Psi Dom, and I think I have the build down (Not in front of me, so mainly numbers will be from memory) I started just building for Capped Ranged, but I ended up Capped Ranged, AoE and all positionals but Smashing Lethal. From memory, S/L is around 35% and Melee is 35ish as well. Resists are 45-50% in S/L and a small amount in toxic, although I would say that is my real vulnerable point. My question is how important is S/L defense. I see most say to focus to cap it, but in order to do that I would lose quite a bit to cap it, ans as is, my worst scenario (besides toxic) is Melee S/L which I should only take about 7-8% damage anyway between Defense and resists. Everything else should be capped. Am I missing something here? And reason I should focus instead on S/L? As is, I can sacrifice any more recharge for defense and stay perma hastened. I focused on Ranged defense because as an Elec/ anything short of an EB in Melee is End Drained pretty quickly and becomes a non issue. Most damage seems to hit from uncontrolled mobs outside of 10'. So, will I regret not maxing out S/L to max out the rest?

Oh, Capping with Fortify is a bit of a pain, and I can see where many would not want to deal with the micro managing. I like the frantic playstyle, but it is as safe as Beasts paired with a defense set. Nothing wrong with Beasts/FF if you enjoy it, and it is superior from a defensive point of view. I do miss +def for the mastermind toon as well as Mez protection for all, I am just addicted to the damage. I am pretty sure Crits go beyond damage cap, so that is still a bonus of Fortify. As far as lack of stacks of call, it really become irrelevant for a Beast/Kin. 10 stacks gets you 20% extra damage. With Fulcrum Shift you will be around 200%-300% during normal times anyway, so an extra 20% is not as large of a loss as it would be with other other sets. Now, being 220% instead of 200% is good, but not nearly as good at 200% damage and capped defenses.

IMO, I think that in +def sets, Beats loses out to Bots, Thugs and Ninja. The reason is that all of those are higher base damage, and you will be able to cap each anyway. Where I think that Bots shine is in a set that is lacking defense due strictly to Fortify the Pack. Power Boosted Fortify will allow Beasts to self cap with 4 Stacks of Call. That opens up primaries that normally do not add much defense. IMO, that is why Beast/Kin works so well. Fortify makes up the defense hole in Kin, and Kin makes up for the damage hole in Beasts. It still is not as safe as a regular defense Build, but it will put out more damage. Don't get me wrong, Beast/FF is completely viable, and you will probably have quite a few less faceplants with it then relying on Fortify to cap you. My only point is that I think that Fortify is the selling point of Beasts, and a defense set reduces the value of fortify.

I am guessing they will also go in the Spirit in Necro as well.

In addition to what you are planning, I took Subdue. I passed on TK and Lance. I also passed on Scream because I tend to be in the middle of combat and with enough recharge, Shockwave is enough. I do solo a lot, so I may change my mind on Scream with a different primary (Electric) or if I were just looking to add AoE damage to a team. If I remember correctly, Subdue and Mental blast are basically the same attack with different secondary attacks. I might think of dropping one, but that leaves you with Dart and one other ranged blast and Dart is not great DPA.

IMO, you want defense and recharge in Fortify. At base, with 0 stacks of Call, you have 5% defense. Slotted it is just under 8%. Slotted with Power Boost it is about 11%. With 4 stacks of Call, you are at 9% Def, or just over 14% with slotting, and over 20% with PB as well. Add 20% to: 10% I/Os 10%-12.5% for innate defense depending on pet. 4% Manuevers And you are at 44-46.5% plus a bit without even touching your secondary. Make it perma, and the only time you will not be at cap will be the time it takes to build 4 stacks of call. Of course, if you have a +def secondary or you don't want Mace for your Patron, Fortify loses much of it's luster

If you are on Indomitable you have the name I was going to take for the same pairing. Since I pretty much only play redside, I had to go with Cold Steal. As far as the pairing, it is good...but so...so.....boring. I actually play on +1/3-4, and on basic missions I attack a spawn and then open up my Kindle to read for the few minutes to clear the spawn. I gave up at 30, and I am sure if I ever make it to 32 it will go a bit quicker.....but this is the reason I never played Bots/FF...not enough for me to contribute during the fight. On live I played Bots/TA and I remember it fondly, although it was nowhere near as safe or powerful.

I have not had Accuracy issues with /Kin. Transfusion will occasionally miss, but I spam so much that it is mainly to top off, or maybe I will lose a wolf in most circumstances. Transference is also a top off in most cases, or I can pop a blue if needed. Speed Boost is not critical, just nice to have. And as for Fulcrum shift, I generally don't sweat it too much if I only hit 7 of 8 in the group. As far as control, I have not had a huge issue with control on my pets, even though I generally don't ID all of them. Control needs to hit to affect them, and even without fortify, they sitting at 25ish defense. I will say that I do not normally play as a tankermind, and control on me can be an issue for my survivalbility. I have KB protection I/Os as well as Rune of Protection. Not great for prolonged encounters, but doable. As I have said before, this is not a top tier combo, but it sure is fun. I have been playing tons of alts, but this is the toon I go back to when I want to shred things.

I love /Earth. I have it paired with Electric/ and it is working very well. Just hit 26.....and I have found that at least solo, I am not using the chain confuse power at all. I am opening with Sleep, charge in, do a chain of single target attacks on a Boss/Lt while the end drains from all the mobs, then I let loose with an AoE. Most the mobs just run closer then go back to sleep. It feels pretty powerful being in the center of 5-10 mobs being able to AoE with impunity (mostly) and there is very little they can retaliate with because they are either asleep or end drained. This combo NEEDS to be in the center of as many mobs as it can fit.

Roll a Protector Bot. Heals and Shields.

I only have a Mid 30's Fortuna, so my input may be off. First, strictly looking at DPA, it seems like Dart Burst is the way to go. I believe base recharge is 8 seconds, so with some decent Recharge that can be your only AoE and you still can almost spam it. Of course, I do lose some time with a quick backstep out of combat, but I still think it is better then Spin. Second, Aid Self definitely seems worth it.

Fulcrum Shift + Power Boost + Fortify pack. Capped Defense on beasts, and potentially capped Damage as well. (Generally takes 2 spawns to get Capped damage, at least solo)

The only point I disagree with is the strictly ranged approach. I believe it really depends on sets. I don't have as much experience at the top end, mainly 50 Mind/Psi from before shutdown, but with Drain Psyche, Shockwave and Mind Probe, I was always in the thick of things. Being a Dominator actually seemed to make it safer then for most melee because most of the time, the mobs I were in the middle of were locked down, so I could take advantage of the higher damage Mind Probe and PBAoEs. Currently I am playing a baby (25) Electric/Earth that is ALWAYS in the middle of things surrounded by 5-10 sleeping mobs. (Note, this is mostly solo since it is a bit tough to find Redside teams...and I hate gong Blue.) The combo only has 2 ranged attacks (And I skipped Hurl Boulder) and 3 very good melee attacks, 2 Auras and 2 good PBAoEs. Add in the pulsing Sleep, and there is no reason not to be in the middle of everything. I actually ditched AoE Immob because I wanted the mobs to come to me in the brief seconds out of sleep. I do completely agree with Range defense for Melee toons though. Generally, if I am controlling stuff right around myself, the danger is the snipers or other mobs outside my control area. I also agree with being poor vs AV's. Again, this is from 7+ years ago, but I remember basically being poorer DPS vs most AVs. That was ...disappointing after basically being a god on 4/8 groups. I disagree with using Domination whenever you can. Before they took the damage component out, I did use Domination as much as possible to increase kill time, but now I keep it for Bosses and as a break free (Until it is perma at least). I don't need it for the normal groups, I need it for bosses and/or when things go sideways. Overall though, great points and a good discussion.

So far my favorite MM is Beast/Kin. It is not the most powerful, but it disintegrates single targets and is the only set that can reach the Def Soft cap and Damage cap on its own. (Def softcap is reached through Power Boosted Fortify the pack. Recharge can be made Perma, but you need around 4-5 stacks of pack mentality to reach cap, and that can take 4-10 seconds) The main downsides are no good -regen for AV's and you are a bit squishy unlike /Time, /Traps or Bots/. Beast/Kin is a frantic playstyle (Especially after you get Fulcrum Shift) where you are rushing from spawn to spawn trying to keep your pets at damage cap. Mobs melt quickly. Probably the top combo is Bots/Time, but the combo is less exciting to me. At 45 I am playing at +1/4 where I am sure a Bots/Time could do a much higher difficulty. I also hear good things about Demon/Thermal.

Very interesting. I have a Beast/Kin that I have been considering taking out all the damage Enhancements and replacing them with something else. Currently, I am running 2 Acc, 2 Damage and 2 of the specials for Res/Def in each pet. I have noticed that shortly after entering a combat, my pets are generally damage capped because of Fulcrum Shift, so the Damage Enhancements seem to only help before I get off Fulcrum Shift (or stack it) Well, seems like I could go full Procs and maintain non FS damage, and improve damage under FS. I never realized how significant Proc damage could be even after PPM

Have you considered /Dark? There is an AoE Disorient in Howling Twilight. Long Cooldown, but also good -Regen for AVs.

I am sure you are right for many, but for me, I wanted Crowd Control with good defense and offense more than I cared about using mental powers. Right now it plays like a Softcapped Dominator that can fall back on Control if things get out of hand. Basically, Damage Primary with a control Secondary and a dash of Team Buffs on the side.

I recently stalled out on a Fort build around the late 20's. I just was dying too often. Tried Aid self, but was not quite enough. (Running at +1/2...and yes I could turn down, but expect an AT to run well at that level.) Long story short, I invested in the +3% Def IO, 5 +7.5 recharge IOs and switched to NightWidow. It was going so smooth with Nightwidow (besides running a bit short on End) that a few levels later I swapped back to Fort, but with a different mindset. The only things I am gong to take from Fortuna are Dominate, Total Domination, Psychic Wail, Aim, Aura of Confusion, Mindlink and Mask Presence. All my damage will come from claws, and only AoE is dart Burst. Dart burst does a surprising amount of damage for it's activation time, and with only 8 seconds base recharge, it is up quite often. The other change is I took out Aid self and replaced with the fighting pool and Weave. (I may take out once I accomplish Perma Mindlink with some overlap. Only running weave due to End issues) The damage is a bit lower now then the Nightwidow, but the Nuke and Mass confuse will give some good AoE control. End is still a bit of an issue, but once I get the slots for end redux and/or start slotting sets, that should even out. As for defense, with Weave, I don't actually even need Mindlink that often. Defense is sitting low/mid 30's on AoE and ranged, and 40ish on Melee, and since I tend to stay in melee now, I rarely take hits. This went from a character that was boring and slow (when I focused on controls) and a bit squishy to a great solo toon with even better stuff in the future (Just hit 32, so getting Nuke and looking forward to AoE Confuse) Anyway, just wanted to share my experience of hitting a wall and how I got over it.

I don't quite get this. Respecs are cheap. Last I got one was 400-500k on the marketplace. I can make that on the marketplace fairly quickly. Alternately, if you level as quickly as you state, it should be easy to earn that quickly the old fashion way. Surely it will take less time then the time you will save by speeding up missions (assuming no better choices for powers/time/end). I will say I normally play redside, so I tend to solo more as there are less options for teams redside. That may taint my views.

I am playing an Bots/Cold right now, I think he just hit 28. The character is powerful, but slow and boring. I know things will pick up at 32 as I have had bots in the distant past, but I am not sure the game play will become more interesting. Early levels I pick up the 2x XP bonus and do 2-4 DFB runs. Kind of boring, but it will get me to the mid teens in about an hour. Once you hit 18, you get a power bump w/ an extra bot. Then 22 is SO's which is a bit boost, then 24 for 2nd protector bot. That is significant because you can have VERY good defense by then. Fully slotted Cold shield is about 17% Def, Both bots add 15%, Maneuvers slotted 3% and if you get both the +5% defense I/Os, that adds another 10%. So, all together, you should be at Cap, with the protector Bots at about 38%. At this point, you can almost AFK while your bots wipe spawns....slowly. At 26 it speeds up a bit, and at 32 it should improve dramatically. Having a 'goal' ever 2-4 levels is pretty satisfying as you are almost always within reach of something new and powerful. A quick plug for my most fun mastermind. Beast/Kin. It is a frantic playstyle. Later on you can actually have Capped Defenses (While Fortify the pack is up) AND 300% damage w/ Fulcrum Shift. Unlike Bots/Cold, it is very active to keep those stats and you will have plenty of times your pets are at 24% defense and you need to scramble to keep them alive. Very little AoE, but they just melt single targets so fast I sometimes miss the heal on them because the target is dead before I get the heal off.

As with everything....it depends. If you have better power picks and/or have neither the time nor endurance, then skip the attacks. If you have weak picks, you have time and endurance available, then yes, take the attacks. As a Beast/Kin, I started out with 2 attacks. It did speed up leveling. As time went on, I specced out of them and only have Arcane Bolt on my bar now (because it is a prerequisite). Normally, I am so busy with abilities that I don't have time to use it, but if I have a few seconds downtime between other abilities, I fire it off. Does it change the course of a battle? No. At most, it speeds it up a small amount. But using all my End and Time is more efficient then just standing there doing nothing. As a Bots/Cold I want the personal attacks. I am so bored with my soft capped bots that I may as well convert my time/end to damage.