A few questions about 'Trollers with no innate heals.

[Soulsifter]

 

I've been playing a Fire / Sonic 'troller just lately. It's been fun early on as it's made me take a party buff forward stance while de-buffing (with smoke and sonic siphon). My thought was it would be a late bloomer with buffed imps. My questions are many but the two I'd like to put forward are

 

1) Can the imps (all of them) be buffed by one application of enflame and perhaps spirit ward? I'm only 15 so a ways to go before I find out.

 

2) How do those of you that play trollers without any self healing deal with it? 

 

Thank you kindly.

[JJDrakken]

1. No

 

2. Your Green Apple Candy(heals) and/or debuffs/buffs.

[JJDrakken]

1 hour ago, Soulsifter said:

 

I've been playing a Fire / Sonic 'troller just lately. It's been fun early on as it's made me take a party buff forward stance while de-buffing (with smoke and sonic siphon). My thought was it would be a late bloomer with buffed imps. My questions are many but the two I'd like to put forward are

 

1) Can the imps (all of them) be buffed by one application of enflame and perhaps spirit ward? I'm only 15 so a ways to go before I find out.

 

2) How do those of you that play trollers without any self healing deal with it? 

 

Thank you kindly.

 

If your looking for a build, you can check this out.

 

Controller (Fire Control - Sonic Resonance).mbd

 

If you don't know what to open it with: https://midsreborn.com/

 

That's Hero Designer for this game.

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, Soulsifter said:

2) How do those of you that play trollers without any self healing deal with it? 

 

In addition to what the above poster said about leveraging Insps and Buffs/Debuffs...

 

1) Their entire Primary Powerset is filled with Mez effects. Anything that is held/disoriented/confused/flopping in an infinite knockdown loop isn't attacking you.

 

2) Join a team.

 

3) Use Incarnate Abilities. Rebirth Destiny, Melee Core Hybrid, Radial Lore pets, whatever.

 

4) There are a number of pets that can Taunt (Phantom Army, Stoney and the Tri-Cannon) and they're all either already functionally immortal or can be buffed to that level fairly easily. I've got an Arsenal/ Dominator whose Tri-Cannon can comfortably tank AVs/GMs with just a single Pet +Res Aura IO plus Spirit Ward (slotted with a Panacea Proc).

 

For a Fire/Sonic... I'd probably recommend not worrying to much about the Imps. By all means buff them with both your targetable Bubbles and keep them in Sonic Dispersion range; and when soloing anchor your Disruption Field on one of them. But you can always resummon them.

If you want to throw out more mitigation then Liquefy is a very useful -ToHit Debuff for when you get in over your head and if/when you get to Incarnates then certain abilities like Barrier Destiny or Support Hybrid might help, but IMO locking down spawns with your CC will likely be far more effective than trying to spam heals on the imps. If you really want to make the little blighters a bit more self sufficient, then the two +Res Aura IOs and 'Overwhelming Force: Chance for KD' might be worth looking at.

[Grizlee]

Thanks for that folks. I've been delving into the Controller so wanted to try and throw my hat in the ring here, so to speak 😄

 

The build I had thrown together is this. 

 

Sideshow - Controller (Fire Control - Sonic Resonance).mbd

 

Edited yesterday at 04:05 AM by Grizlee

[Doomguide2005]

     Biggest issue I found playing a Fire/Sonic controller was the the end usage is heavy to put it mildly.  You have 3 relatively expensive toggles to keep up.  Hot Feet, Disruption Field and Sonic Dispersion.  That's 2.16 end/sec prior to endred enhancement.  No Fighting or Leadership pools yet included nor are your attacks.  You can drain your blue bar to zero faster than I can type this.  JJ's build above for example nets 0.62 end/sec (0.9 end/sec with accolades).  Ageless and chowing blue inspires non-stop I'm not sure would keep you from bottoming out.  The build I have in Mids is old, pre changes to Liquefy but you can see where I went with producing +max endurance and +recovery.  That build will not leave you panting non-stop and gives you more freedom in choosing what Incarnate abilities you want (and more importantly to me you can exemplar below 45 and not fall over gasping).

     Push comes to shove you can essentially sit there while Hot Feet and the Imps chew on stuff and you recover end.  I would recommend taking Char and put a bunch of procs in it.  It will help enormously in finishing off foes quickly otherwise you are a DoT machine, and death comes in steady tics but not quickly comparatively.

     As for healing you will take amazingly little damage.  The Afraid in Hot Feet leaves them trying to run away not attack you or hopefully your Imps.  And try very hard not to spam Fire Cages, yes, the damage tics are nice, but the end usage can be a major source of end loss.

     And a last thought, most controllers I love recharge and lots of it.  But this build really doen't benefit nearly as much as your typical controller build.  It runs toggles and Hot Feet is a major source of damage.  I have enough recharge without particularly seeking it out to have Liquefy up probably every two to three spawns, it and Fold Space are the two powers I use where the cool down is important and while sooner would be nice they are back fast enough vs running the blue bar to zero to cut the cool down further.   

 

 

Tine Sidhe FireSonic (v1.10 i27.6).mbd

Edited yesterday at 09:07 AM by Doomguide2005
Added thoughts

[Soulsifter]

Thank you Doom. I've been playing it a lot the last day. One thing I can't understand with JJ's offering is taking smoke so late. I find it an every fight debuff that is great in mitigating damage solo or in group, albeit low level at this point. I had to change my slotting a bit last night because of the end hungry nature. I am a lover of the dark armor sets so I guess I'm used to figuring that out 😄  

 

 Thank you kindly @Doomguide2005 It's appreciated.

 

 

 I've looked at yours and notice two things, you added a lot of single target damage (and another pet!), and you didn't bother with global rechard hardly at all. I'm guessing with all the damage dealer choices the need for recharge is reduced somewhat?

 

Just curious at your mindset here.

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Soulsifter

[Uun]

21 hours ago, Soulsifter said:

1) Can the imps (all of them) be buffed by one application of enflame and perhaps spirit ward? I'm only 15 so a ways to go before I find out.

Enflame isn't a buff, it's a damage aura. It's a toggle with a 60s duration that can be placed on an ally (including one of your Imps) or a foe. Spirit Ward is a toggle absorb buff that can be placed on an ally (including one of your Imps).

 

21 hours ago, Soulsifter said:

2) How do those of you that play trollers without any self healing deal with it? 

I have several controllers without any self healing, including Gravity/Storm and Illusion/Poison. Foes that are mezzed can't attack you. You should be relying on Flashfire and Bonfire. 

[Soulsifter]

Thank you @Uun

 

 I've got a stab at it drafted now. It's not quite as end efficient as Doom's but it brings a little utility to the table to offset that and a bit more in the way of resists. The defenses suffer though. This seems to be a party dependent build so went with it. Clarity was something I wanted to squeeze in but didn't see anything I wanted to replace it with. 

 

 

 

Firebreak - Controller (Fire Control - Sonic Resonance).mbd

Edited 19 hours ago by Soulsifter

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, Soulsifter said:

Thank you Doom. I've been playing it a lot the last day. One thing I can't understand with JJ's offering is taking smoke so late. I find it an every fight debuff that is great in mitigating damage solo or in group, albeit low level at this point. I had to change my slotting a bit last night because of the end hungry nature. I am a lover of the dark armor sets so I guess I'm used to figuring that out 😄  

 

 Thank you kindly @Doomguide2005 It's appreciated.

 

 

 I've looked at yours and notice two things, you added a lot of single target damage (and another pet!), and you didn't bother with global rechard hardly at all. I'm guess with all the damage dealer choices the need for recharge is reduced somewhat?

 

Just curious at your mindset here.

 

I can understand both your thinking and why JJ put Smoke so late.  I'm not even sure my actual Live build even has Smoke.  Two reasons the first is it's no longer low level but fully Incarnate so generally I'm either rapidly appearing among them (combat tp), they're getting mezzed first (usually Flashfire) or they get brought to me (Fold Space).  At that point the Imps are busy.  And secondly Hot Feet.  Pretty much all non-boss foes are trying to leave Hot Feet (Afraid mag 3) while i focus on the Boss (Char) and get Bonfire laid a top Hot Feet and so on.  

     I'll try a get the current build into Mids and posted.  

[JJDrakken]

15 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Biggest issue I found playing a Fire/Sonic controller was the the end usage is heavy to put it mildly.  You have 3 relatively expensive toggles to keep up.  Hot Feet, Disruption Field and Sonic Dispersion.  That's 2.16 end/sec prior to endred enhancement.  No Fighting or Leadership pools yet included nor are your attacks.  You can drain your blue bar to zero faster than I can type this.  JJ's build above for example nets 0.62 end/sec (0.9 end/sec with accolades).  Ageless and chowing blue inspires non-stop I'm not sure would keep you from bottoming out.  The build I have in Mids is old, pre changes to Liquefy but you can see where I went with producing +max endurance and +recovery.  That build will not leave you panting non-stop and gives you more freedom in choosing what Incarnate abilities you want (and more importantly to me you can exemplar below 45 and not fall over gasping).

     Push comes to shove you can essentially sit there while Hot Feet and the Imps chew on stuff and you recover end.  I would recommend taking Char and put a bunch of procs in it.  It will help enormously in finishing off foes quickly otherwise you are a DoT machine, and death comes in steady tics but not quickly comparatively.

     As for healing you will take amazingly little damage.  The Afraid in Hot Feet leaves them trying to run away not attack you or hopefully your Imps.  And try very hard not to spam Fire Cages, yes, the damage tics are nice, but the end usage can be a major source of end loss.

     And a last thought, most controllers I love recharge and lots of it.  But this build really doen't benefit nearly as much as your typical controller build.  It runs toggles and Hot Feet is a major source of damage.  I have enough recharge without particularly seeking it out to have Liquefy up probably every two to three spawns, it and Fold Space are the two powers I use where the cool down is important and while sooner would be nice they are back fast enough vs running the blue bar to zero to cut the cool down further.   

 

 

Tine Sidhe FireSonic (v1.10 i27.6).mbd 42.64 kB · 6 downloads

 

1. Your Mid's is very old. Update it.

 

2. Two, when doing a build be sure to shut off situational buffs. It leads to falsehood for what the build actually is.

 

3. Literally no point in getting Scorpion Shield if your not soft capping the S/L/E ... your not even close. Your better off just getting a Res Shield to stack.

 

4.  Your recharge rate is 33% Sure it's in the positives... but man that is very low.

 

5.  Since your not soft capping S/L/E the things your trying not to get hit buy.  Your Resistance in those areas are crap. 18% & 22%  ... Your asking to get kicked in the crotch.

 

6. This why I hate frankenslotting. It gives to much of a illusion of power, but folks who honestly don't understand it, are just hurting themselves.

 

7. Why in the world as a Controller is your Flash Fire not taken till lvl 32 ... That's huge thing for Fire Control.

 

8. No point in taking Trant, less your saving it for AV fights. That Recharge rate is horrible.

 

9.  Your Sonic Shields slots are honestly being wasted and can go elsewhere for better effectiveness.

 

10.  Slotting in general is a mess.  You really should sit down and rethink things. BUT if that works for you, ok. 

 

Finally: Update your mids or that build, cuz it gets error of it being out of date.

Edited 17 hours ago by JJDrakken

[kelika2]

i went fire/trick arrow for my goto controller

lots of dots

lots of -tohit

stackable holds

[Doomguide2005]

Fair enough, especially the part about turning things on or off.  The rest I did say it was an old build, pre Liquefy.  Sorry if there was confusion about it being anywhere near a final build.  It is not, nor is it the build I'm currently using.  It was merely to demonstrate the recovery and +max end methods i was using to fight off the heavy end usage.  The rest of your criticism is noted but mostly assume the build was intended to be followed.  It's not where it ended up at 50.  Sorry again if I didn't make that clear enough.

[Carnifax]

Just want to drive-by and point out one of the most cost effective ways to slot Hot Feet is the new(ish) Ice Mistral's Torment slow set. 

 

5 of those (omit the damage proc) gives decent Acc, Dam, End Reduction & Slow. Top it off with a random Damage/End IO or Acc/Dam/End (Scrirocco's Dervish for example) and you'll cap Dam & End while having decent Acc and a nice boost to the -run speed. Set bonuses are also nice. 7% Accuracy, 10% slow resists and 6.25% recharge. So it's not even a "I'm frankenslotting to sacrifice Set Bonuses for Enhancements" option, you still get useful bonuses. 

 

And it's cheap, you're looking at less than 1 million per IO, compared to around 15 million per purple or 20 million per Winters. 

 

Also not really worth slotting Bonfire for damage. You'll rarely keep something in it long enough for it to matter. 260 damage over 45 seconds is meh. Go 1 kb2kd and one Forced Feedback and spend the slots somewhere else IMO.