Blaster Epic Pool Def/Resist Toggles

[Icecomet]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

The non-patron Epic Pools don't all get a def/res toggle at level 35, nor do the available toggles all take the same sets. (I'll ignore the actual effects of the toggle, except in one case).

 

Arsenal's Body Armor, level 35 Auto power Resistance sets only

Dark's Murky Cloud, level 35 toggle power Resistance sets only

Electric's Charged Armor, level 38 toggle power, Resistance sets only

Fire's Fire Shield, level 38 toggle power, Resistance sets only

Force Mastery's Temp Invulnerability, level 38 toggle Resistance sets only (PFF is a level 35 defensive toggle, but it doesn't allow players to make attacks)

Ice's Frozen Armor, level 41 toggle that allows both Resistance and Defense sets.

 

At level 41... Frozen Armor looks like an outlier, but it provides better options than the other Epics, and IMO even Scorpion Shield's (level 35) options. An enhanceable 10% S/L defense is excellent! The only similar options for Blasters come from long-recharge pool powers that require even more pre-requisites (e.g. Unleash Potential)

 

If you want to propose shuffling the order of the power picks, there does need to be an accompanying proposal as to how to rebalance the set.

 

 

Based on the non-Patron sets, it would be far more likely that the "toggle" would end up at level 38 across-the-board, which would still require a pre-requisite power pick. The toggle powers currently available only above level 38 would have to sacrifice some things.

 

 

So allowing a def/res toggle at 35 instead of 41 will require a rebalance of the effectiveness?  LOL, yes, yes, that will totally overpower every blaster in the game and blasters will be solo'ing all TF/SF and Trials at +4/+8 in no time at all, omg, how did I not see that.

[Asmic Dust]

17 hours ago, Icecomet said:

Good morning GM's, Devs & Heroes!  I was curious to ask why we don't normalize the epic pools (from a blaster perspective) where the defense/resist toggle can be taken on the first choice?  Having to waste an extra power just to stay on "theme" doesn't seem fair (I am Ice, Ice, Ice).  Case in point, with ICE, I have to take 2 powers vs. soul mastery which can be taken on the first selection on top of which, not only do I have to waste an extra power, I have to wait until 41 for Ice/Leviathan, 38 for Fire/Force/Electric vs. being able to be 35 for the other 3 patron pools.  I get that the patron pools require 'unlocking', however, nowadays with any of the 4 missions unlocking them all, it would seem to me that we should just normalize the epic pools and just allow the toggle to be taken on the 1st selection so people can build the theme/build they want fairly across the spectrum.

 

Current requirements for the Blaster Epic pool def/resist powers are here:

 

Blaster Epic Pool	Level to obtain	Additional requirements
Arsenal	35	None
Dark	35	None
Electric	38	requires 1 power taken before it
Fire	38	requires 1 power taken before it
Force	38	requires 1 power taken before it
Ice	41	requires 1 power taken before it
Leviathan	41	requires 1 of 4 missions be completed & 1 power taken before it
Mace	35	requires 1 of 4 missions be completed
Mu	35	requires 1 of 4 missions be completed
Soul	35	requires 1 of 4 missions be completed

 

Thank you for your time and I would appreciate some serious consideration in fixing this discrepancy.

 

I like this idea and thought about it many times myself but never bothered to post it here due to how everybody just shit all over ideas here but since you posted it I'd like to see this change myself because if those pools all unlock at the same level 35 for every blaster then the option to take the toggle at 35 should be consistent across the blaster AT.

 

@Devs lets make this happen pls!!!!

 

[tidge]

54 minutes ago, Icecomet said:

 

So allowing a def/res toggle at 35 instead of 41 will require a rebalance of the effectiveness?  LOL, yes, yes, that will totally overpower every blaster in the game and blasters will be solo'ing all TF/SF and Trials at +4/+8 in no time at all, omg, how did I not see that.

 

My comments are not about "totally overpowering". My personal opinion is that a Blaster shouldn't need an epic toggle, yet if they somehow do, there is no content between levels 30 and 36 that require one.

 

Player's (edit) not should ask for 'pure buffs' without proposing a rebalance. The need to take a pre-req choice, and an availability at a later level are part of the factors that make Frozen Armor better (IMO) than other 'toggles' that don't require those things (or a Patron unlock).

 

 

Edited Sunday at 03:04 PM by tidge
missing a 'not' in original text

[Kara Kinesis]

6 minutes ago, Icecomet said:

 

So allowing a def/res toggle at 35 instead of 41 will require a rebalance of the effectiveness?  LOL, yes, yes, that will totally overpower every blaster in the game and blasters will be solo'ing all TF/SF and Trials at +4/+8 in no time at all, omg, how did I not see that.

 

Yes, watch out, we will all be blasting the game apart at 35 if we get this, you are completely making the blasters unbalanced and unfairly overpowered.  Such a dangerous idea! <sarcasm>

[Icecomet]

3 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

My comments are not about "totally overpowering". My personal opinion is that a Blaster shouldn't need an epic toggle, yet if they somehow do, there is no content between levels 30 and 36 that require one.

 

Player's should ask for 'pure buffs' without proposing a rebalance. The need to take a pre-req choice, and an availability at a later level are part of the factors that make Frozen Armor better (IMO) than other 'toggles' that don't require those things (or a Patron unlock).

 

 

 

So, you're suggesting then perhaps all blaster def/res toggles should be a T4 power since you state they're clearly unnecessary for a blaster at those lower levels?  

[tidge]

1 minute ago, Icecomet said:

 

So, you're suggesting then perhaps all blaster def/res toggles should be a T4 power since you state they're clearly unnecessary for a blaster at those lower levels?  

 

I suggest learning how to blast without relying on the epic pool powers to keep you alive. /s

 

Less sarcasticly: the epics/patron pools aren't uniform by design. The dev team isn't keeping a defense or resistance toggle out of player's build until level 41, the game offers pools with different power choices in them, available at different levels, that scale with the level of availability. The utility of that scaling will be different for different players, I don't know why anyone would insist on making all the sets the same.

[FupDup]

6 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

 

I would rather the melee AT pools NOT all mirror Mu and Soul.  Being able to pick up Conserve Power at 35 is very, very, very useful on some melee builds and I would very much rather not lose that.

 

In fact, on my characters that go Energy Mastery, I almost never take an attack at all (I can only think of one exception, who took Energy Torrent... as a mule for a purple set.  She never uses it.).  But I pretty much always take Conserve Power and Physical Perfection, and frequently take Focused Accuracy.  So I have no desire to see Energy Mastery rearranged as it would break many of my builds.

The way I'd handle Energy Mastery is that I'd either swap the spots of Focused Accuracy and Laser Beam Eyes, or just straight up move LBE to level 35 so now you'd have 3 starter choices kind of like what happened with travel pools when those got adjusted. 

 

That, and I'd also replace Conserve Power with Superior Conditioning because ConPow has such incredibly low uptime that you can't rely on it so it just goes unused most of the time (SupCon always helps you in the background and can even be turned into a minor heal or mobility power with certain procs). 

Edited Sunday at 03:15 PM by FupDup

[Stormwalker]

4 hours ago, Icecomet said:

 

For the umpteenth time, I was only asking that the blaster epic pools all allow a T1 choice for the def/res toggle, no other AT pool arrangements were asked for or suggested

 

 

The person that I was replying to was asking to have the melee AT pools changed.  I quoted them in my reply, so that should have been fairly obvious.

 

That said, on the subject of the blaster pools... as someone who has an Ice/Ice/Ice blaster, I don't really see a need for the change.  The powers offered by the pools are substantially different in terms of the capabilities they provide.  Frozen Armor is a significantly better power than most of the other Blaster defense/resist powers, this is why it comes later in the set.  In order for it to be made available earlier, it would have to be nerfed... and I'd really prefer it not be nerfed because I like it how it is.  Note that my Ice/Ice/Ice isn't level 41 yet (she's at 39 currently) and  therefore doesn't have Frozen Armor yet and I still feel this way about it.  I'd rather wait for a better power than get a weaker one sooner... and getting Frozen Armor sooner without weakening it would not be fair to the other sets.

 

Similarly, I don't want Temp Invulnerability to become available at 35 in Force Mastery, because it would also have to be nerfed for that, and I don't want that, either.  I like my EnergyEnergy/Force blaster just like she is, thanks.

 

Once upon a time, you couldn't even take your Epic Pool until 41.  I frequently don't start taking my Epic pool until 38 or 41 because there's another power I want sooner.  I really don't see this as being a huge deal.  As @tidge has already said, the pools are not uniform for a reason - they offer different capabilities.  If you normalized their arrangement, you would also have to normalize the powers to maintain balance between the sets, and I don't want the powers changed.

Edited Sunday at 05:10 PM by Stormwalker

[Stormwalker]

1 hour ago, FupDup said:

The way I'd handle Energy Mastery is that I'd either swap the spots of Focused Accuracy and Laser Beam Eyes, or just straight up move LBE to level 35 so now you'd have 3 starter choices kind of like what happened with travel pools when those got adjusted. 

 

That, and I'd also replace Conserve Power with Superior Conditioning because ConPow has such incredibly low uptime that you can't rely on it so it just goes unused most of the time (SupCon always helps you in the background and can even be turned into a minor heal or mobility power with certain procs). 

 

No, no, no, no, and hell no.

 

Conserve Power is much, much, much better than Superior Conditioning.  It doesn't need to be up all the time; it's up more than enough to do the job.

 

If anything, I feel like Brute Energy Mastery is underpowered because it's stuck with Superior Conditioning instead of Conserve Power.

 

Also, Laser Beam Eyes is kind of terrible compared to the other melee AT pool attacks.  If you choose Energy Mastery, you probably aren't choosing it for its attacks.  You're choosing it because you want Conserve Power, Physical Perfection, and/or Focused Accuracy.  So moving Laser Beam Eyes down would not be doing the set any favors.

 

Edited Sunday at 05:06 PM by Stormwalker

[Icecomet]

2 hours ago, FupDup said:

The way I'd handle Energy Mastery is that I'd either swap the spots of Focused Accuracy and Laser Beam Eyes, or just straight up move LBE to level 35 so now you'd have 3 starter choices kind of like what happened with travel pools when those got adjusted. 

 

That, and I'd also replace Conserve Power with Superior Conditioning because ConPow has such incredibly low uptime that you can't rely on it so it just goes unused most of the time (SupCon always helps you in the background and can even be turned into a minor heal or mobility power with certain procs). 

 

This would be a better option, to just have the 3 powers unlocked at 35 and is right in line with what I am talking about.

 

Appreciate you making another/better option rather than just shitting on an idea because you can't understand it or somehow think that a 6 level difference somehow overpowers something to the point that it needs "nerfed".  Like, I can't fathom all these people calling for more stringent and annoying restrictions, if they don't want to take it until 41, great, don't take it until 41, nobody is forcing them to change when they take it, just making it available sooner for the flexibility of the power sets, but that is clearly lost on the forum lurkers.

[icesphere]

I like the idea but mostly because the way other patrons work. I like that patrons give me the armor first and epics offer a power pick first before armor. I would go Leviathan Mastery more if they gave me the ice armor followed by an attack later.

[Stormwalker]

6 hours ago, Icecomet said:

 

This would be a better option, to just have the 3 powers unlocked at 35 and is right in line with what I am talking about.

 

Appreciate you making another/better option rather than just shitting on an idea because you can't understand it or somehow think that a 6 level difference somehow overpowers something to the point that it needs "nerfed".  Like, I can't fathom all these people calling for more stringent and annoying restrictions, if they don't want to take it until 41, great, don't take it until 41, nobody is forcing them to change when they take it, just making it available sooner for the flexibility of the power sets, but that is clearly lost on the forum lurkers.

 

1. It is entirely valid to oppose a change on principle.
2. Insulting people because they disagree with you is not helping your argument.
3. Game balance is a thing.  The change you suggest - rearranging the power order without changing the powers - would constitute a buff to some pools while having essentially no effect upon others.  That's not balanced, and it adds more power creep when this game has plenty of that already.  The power pools have already been made substantially more accessible than they were originally.  They don't need further modification in that regard!
4. Why do you seem to think that only people who agree with your ideas have valid opinions?  The Suggestions forum is a place to make suggestions and then discuss whether those discussions should be implemented.  Given that you are never in all the world going to find a change that makes everybody happy, someone is always going to disagree with you, and they also have a right to their opinion.  This forum doesn't exist so that only people who think you have a great idea can make comments about it.
5. The reason I'm not suggesting a "better" or "different" change is because I believe the correct answer in this case is not making a change where no change is needed.

Edited Monday at 12:15 AM by Stormwalker
typos and minor rephrase

[Jacke]

Well, this discussion has been all over the place.

 

I agree with @Icecomet's position.  I have a reason that I don't think others have mentioned yet.

 

Build are often tight or very tight.  What 4 Pools?  Which Origin Pool, if any?  What Power picks when?  What Extra Slots picks when and where?  And what Epic Pool?

 

Some builds will only have 1 or 2 Power picks free for an Epic Pool.  If that desired pick is deep in the Pool for no specific reason, that means it's either passed over or the rest of the build needs to be changed to allow going deeper into the Epic Pool.

 

Sure a common trade-off all over any build.  But to Blasters, that Epic Pool protection, whether Def or Res, is a critical part to improving their survivability.

 

 

[Stormwalker]

2 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Well, this discussion has been all over the place.

 

I agree with @Icecomet's position.  I have a reason that I don't think others have mentioned yet.

 

Build are often tight or very tight.  What 4 Pools?  Which Origin Pool, if any?  What Power picks when?  What Extra Slots picks when and where?  And what Epic Pool?

 

Some builds will only have 1 or 2 Power picks free for an Epic Pool.  If that desired pick is deep in the Pool for no specific reason, that means it's either passed over or the rest of the build needs to be changed to allow going deeper into the Epic Pool.

 

Sure a common trade-off all over any build.  But to Blasters, that Epic Pool protection, whether Def or Res, is a critical part to improving their survivability.

 

 

That is the trade-off involved in choosing an epic pool which offers a superior defensive power.  This is by design.  Having to make difficult choices is where the element of skill becomes involved in building a character.  If you take away all the difficult choices, then you reduce the depth of the game.

 

On my Energy/Energy/Force blaster, I had to take Personal Force Field to get to Temp Invlunerability.  I've used Personal Force Field maybe twice ever - it's not the most useful of powers, to be honest -  and this is on one of my most-played characters.  This is the price of admission to the Force Mastery pool.  I pay it gladly, because it's worth it to get Temp Invulnerability and Force of Nature.  I had to make room for it in my build.  I had to make a choice.  I had to sacrifice some other power I might have taken and take a power I never use.

 

Epic power pools are just like any other power pool - more desirable powers are placed deeper in the pool where a degree of sacrifice is required in order to select them.  This is intended.  It's how the game works.

 

Also, you aren't any more restricted on how many epic pool powers you can take than you are in any other power pool.  Getting the pool at level 35 gives you plenty of space to take every power in the pool if you want to.  For each power you take, that's one less power you can take somewhere else.  That is the entire challenge of creating a build in this game.  It's designed to not let you get everything you want, and to have to be selective.  Otherwise, what's the point of having builds at all?  Just give everyone every power.

 

Removing these kinds of difficult choices chips away at the complexity of the game.  Make enough such changes, and eventually character builds become meaningless.

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Well, this discussion has been all over the place.

 

I agree with @Icecomet's position.  I have a reason that I don't think others have mentioned yet.

 

Build are often tight or very tight.  What 4 Pools?  Which Origin Pool, if any?  What Power picks when?  What Extra Slots picks when and where?  And what Epic Pool?

 

Some builds will only have 1 or 2 Power picks free for an Epic Pool.  If that desired pick is deep in the Pool for no specific reason, that means it's either passed over or the rest of the build needs to be changed to allow going deeper into the Epic Pool.

 

Sure a common trade-off all over any build.  But to Blasters, that Epic Pool protection, whether Def or Res, is a critical part to improving their survivability.

 

 

I disagree. With what we can do with just IO sets to improve our character's survivability and that Blasters can keep fighting even while mezzed, I find it hard to believe that a Blaster has any more difficulty with their build plans and surviving than any other AT. You are giving a Holy Quad argument, except just for Blasters and their epics.

 

Why should Blasters get any different treatment than any other AT for their epics? Why should my Scrapper have to wait until after taking either Ring of Fire or Char to get access to Fire Blast on Fire Mastery while my Scrapper can simply grab Torrent out of the box on Dark Mastery or Ice Bolt from Ice Mastery? Because it is an ancillary power pool, a short power set designed specifically around the AT that gets it as opposed to the universal approach of the power pools. Because just like our primary and secondary sets, the powers are set up not in the same acquisition position across the set dependent upon the set's design. Ancillary/Patron Power Pools are very much designed as tertiary power pools rather than supplemental power pools like the regular power pools. And even the regular power pools, though they are the exact same in layout for all ATs, aren't homogeneous in their design.

 

And when you get into the other ATs, which the author wants to ignore but which are relevant to the conversation, there are advantages (and disadvantages) to the way the ancillaries are set up. Like @Stormwalker said, I would very much rather have access to things like Conserve Power and Superior Conditioning before even bothering with grabbing a ranged attack on my Scrappers and Brutes, but others may prefer getting their ranged attacks first. So some sets let players cater to one approach and others let players cater to another approach. Whereas homogenizing the sets to that everyone gets their ranged attacks first or their utilities first means players all have to build the same way. Personally, I find Snow Storm and Flash Freeze, particularly Flash Freeze since I can put groups to sleep, to be much better for my Blaster's survival than Frozen Armor.

 

[Jacke]

On 3/10/2025 at 12:37 AM, Stormwalker said:

On my Energy/Energy/Force blaster, I had to take Personal Force Field to get to Temp Invlunerability.  I've used Personal Force Field maybe twice ever - it's not the most useful of powers, to be honest -  and this is on one of my most-played characters.  This is the price of admission to the Force Mastery pool.  I pay it gladly, because it's worth it to get Temp Invulnerability and Force of Nature.  I had to make room for it in my build.  I had to make a choice.  I had to sacrifice some other power I might have taken and take a power I never use.

 

I have an AR/Devices Blaster.  With 3 builds, currently Arsenal Mastery, Force Mastery, and Mu Mastery.  And I've got a lot of other Toons either at L50 or with full L50 builds.  I'm aware of the tradeoffs due to the current nature of the Epic (and non-Epic) Pools.

 

 

On 3/10/2025 at 12:37 AM, Stormwalker said:

Removing these kinds of difficult choices chips away at the complexity of the game.  Make enough such changes, and eventually character builds become meaningless.

 

There is already massive complexity in builds just in what Pools to take, what Powers to take, and where to put the Extra Slots.

EDIT: And what Enhancements to slot, which often drives where those Extra Slots go.

 

The different ordering of the Blaster Epic Pools is just an irritating extra on top of that.  Changing the ordering of ALL the Epic Pools for every AT to some sort of reasonable canonical sequence will give more flexibility in choosing the Epic Pool.  It would create choices, not remove them.

 

 

On 3/10/2025 at 12:42 AM, Rudra said:

And when you get into the other ATs, which the author wants to ignore but which are relevant to the conversation, there are advantages (and disadvantages) to the way the ancillaries are set up.

 

As I expanded just above, this could be a goal for ALL ATs for their particular Epic Pools.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:04 AM by Jacke

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, Jacke said:

11 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And when you get into the other ATs, which the author wants to ignore but which are relevant to the conversation, there are advantages (and disadvantages) to the way the ancillaries are set up.

 

As I expanded just above, this could be a goal for ALL ATs for their particular Epic Pools.

Granted, but why should all the pools be set up to favor your preferred approach to character builds and not anyone else? Why should players like me lose access to our preferred T1/T2 powers in the ancillaries just to make those sets conform to what you prefer in the T1/T2 slots for your build? Why should you get to not have to expend extra slots getting powers across the board but now I have to spend those extra slots across the board to get my powers, when right now you can go with sets that give you your preferred picks early and I can go with sets that give me my preferred picks?

 

Edit: And if the author wants to talk about "fair"? The current set up is fair, it favors no one. His/her/their and your preference favors you, not anyone else.

 

Edited Monday at 12:55 AM by Rudra

[Stormwalker]

2 minutes ago, Jacke said:

There is already massive complexity in builds just in what Pools to take, what Powers to take, and where to put the Extra Slots.

 

The different ordering of the Blaster Epic Pools is just an irritating extra on top of that.  Changing the ordering of ALL the Epic Pools for every AT to some sort of reasonable canonical sequence will give more flexibility in choosing the Epic Pool.  It would create choices, not remove them.

 

I disagree.  Especially about it being irritating.  Frankly, I enjoy the challenge of finding the right selection of powers that suits both my character concept and my build goals.

 

Was it a bit too restrictive on Live?  Yes, probably.  Has it been more than sufficiently relaxed on Homecoming to satisfy me?  Yes, absolutely.  Do I think relaxing it further would be detrimental to my enjoyment of the game?  Yes, unquestionably.

 

Also, as @Rudra pointed out, there are advantages to the non-homogenous nature of the Epic pools.  They give a player choices for what kind of power order they might prefer to build with.  Not every player will have the same preferences for power order that you do, and making sweeping changes assuming that this is what everyone wants would be misguided.  I absolutely do not want the Scrapper pools homogenized, for example - it would break many of my existing builds.

 

 

[Icecomet]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Granted, but why should all the pools be set up to favor your preferred approach to character builds and not anyone else? Why should players like me lose access to our preferred T1/T2 powers in the ancillaries just to make those sets conform to what you prefer in the T1/T2 slots for your build? Why should you get to not have to expend extra slots getting powers across the board but now I have to spend those extra slots across the board to get my powers, when right now you can go with sets that give you your preferred picks early and I can go with sets that give me my preferred picks?

 

Edit: And if the author wants to talk about "fair"? The current set up is fair, it favors no one. His/her/their and your preference favors you, not anyone else.

 

 

I think the preferred method was raising T1 to include 3 powers, one of which being the def/res toggle, thereby not changing any orders but allowing us to have the toggle of OUR choice, not a forced choice due to only truly having 1 power left to devote to the epic pool.

 

So, because of that, I shouldn't be allowed to stay on my Ice theme because it would BREAK the game balance to allow a substandard toggle at 35 vs 41?  A Toggle with def to smash/lethal and resist to fire/cold is hardly a game changer, but my sacrifice is staying on theme, and BOTH cold based toggles require 2 choices and level 41, that is where the unfairness lies.

 

2 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

• It is entirely valid to oppose a change on principle.
• Insulting people because they disagree with you is not helping your argument.
• Game balance is a thing.  The change you suggest - rearranging the power order without changing the powers - would constitute a buff to some pools while having essentially no effect upon others.  That's not balanced, and it adds more power creep when this game has plenty of that already.  The power pools have already been made substantially more accessible than they were originally.  They don't need further modification in that regard!
• Why do you seem to think that only people who agree with your ideas have valid opinions?  The Suggestions forum is a place to make suggestions and then discuss whether those discussions should be implemented.  Given that you are never in all the world going to find a change that makes everybody happy, someone is always going to disagree with you, and they also have a right to their opinion.  This forum doesn't exist so that only people who think you have a great idea can make comments about it.
• The reason I'm not suggesting a "better" or "different" change is because I believe the correct answer in this case is not making a change where no change is needed.

 

1. Sure, except that's generally all that happens here on this toxic forum, you don't like it so you shit on it.

2. I didn't insult anybody and I am not sure I saw anybody else hurl an insult.  If you feel insulted then you insulted yourself by reading something into something that isn't there.

3. You say it would improve some pools and others would gain nothing?  I could argue that the pools being asked to be changed have been shortchanged all these years and the balance fix is to allow us the same CHOICE toggle to stay on the theme we want (Note above, both cold toggles require 2 powers and level 41).

4. The difference between you and I is you won't see me shit on somebody's idea, they take the time to make a suggestion because this is the only place you can hope the power team will see it can look into it after which I can only hope that they'd start an opinion/vote section on proposed changes about what is and isn't possible, what nerfs would need to take place, etc and at that time people could cast a vote in favor of or opposition to said changes (I might even vote against it at that time depending on what they would say).  Maybe that's idealistic, it's not like we're given a vote nearly as often as we should be considering we're the absolute funders.

5. Sure, you're entitled to your opinion and of course everybody has one.  I've despised most of the recent changes that have been made, but you know what?  I suck it up and go with it because that's life and if this change were to happen, guess what?  You'll have to suck it up and roll with it.

 

 

Ultimately, if it were up to me and I were running the show, the epic pool would all be T1 for all AT's, being that you have to wait until 35 to even get anything from it and should just be an unlocked pool since each AT pool is different (unlike the regular power pools that we all share and get equal boosts from), but I know that isn't realistically going to happen here.  I've always thought this game should just be fun and an escape from reality and since it isn't a timesink model used to milk cash from customers monthly for a fee like the original model, people should be able to build the characters they want to have and enjoy zipping around the city, fighting crime, missions, raids, trials, whatever tickles their fancy.  Again, maybe that's idealistic, but it is what I would do...

Edited Monday at 02:41 AM by Icecomet

[Aracknight]

1 hour ago, Stormwalker said:

I absolutely do not want the Scrapper pools homogenized, for example - it would break many of my existing builds.

 

 

While preventing others from making their preferred builds.  

 

To me, the idea that a change is bad because it would affect one side's personal preferences isn't really fundamentally different than someone asking for a change that they think is good that would enable the other side's personal preferences.  The key difference is that one side currently has the high ground known as the status quo, which is then used to bludgeon idea people into submission.  This pattern is repeated ad infinitum every goddamn day.

 

For fuck's sake, some of the denizens of this forum don't can't or won't even say "good idea."  They say things like "I would not argue against this" instead.  This is where the perception issues in this forum come from, because instead of saying "cool, I like it," they say shit like "I wouldn't oppose it" which can lend to the perception that they somehow control the outcome when it reads like an imperious form of "I would allow that."

 

Stormwalker, the majority of this isn't aimed at you specifically.  I just quoted your post because that specific sentence struck me as an interesting point that you made.

 

 

 

 

 

[Icecomet]

1 hour ago, Stormwalker said:

 

I disagree.  Especially about it being irritating.  Frankly, I enjoy the challenge of finding the right selection of powers that suits both my character concept and my build goals.

 

 

You know, there is nothing that would force you to change what you're doing, you can continue to put yourself into difficult choices because you feel it would overpower you otherwise and keep your builds gimped.  Seriously, that's an option!  Because a change like this would be made, you don't have to respec or change ANYTHING that you're doing.

[Icecomet]

7 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

While preventing others from making their preferred builds.  

 

To me, the idea that a change is bad because it would affect one side's personal preferences isn't really fundamentally different than someone asking for a change that they think is good that would enable the other side's personal preferences.  The key difference is that one side currently has the high ground known as the status quo, which is then used to bludgeon idea people into submission.  This pattern is repeated ad infinitum every goddamn day.

 

For fuck's sake, some of the denizens of this forum don't can't or won't even say "good idea."  They say things like "I would not argue against this" instead.  This is where the perception issues in this forum come from, because instead of saying "cool, I like it," they say shit like "I wouldn't oppose it" which can lend to the perception that they somehow control the outcome when it reads like an imperious form of "I would allow that."

 

Stormwalker, the majority of this isn't aimed at you specifically.  I just quoted your post because that specific sentence struck me as an interesting point that you made.

 

 

Preach on brother, preach on 

[Rudra]

19 minutes ago, Icecomet said:

 

I think the preferred method was raising T1 to include 3 powers, one of which being the def/res toggle, thereby not changing any orders but allowing us to have the toggle of OUR choice, not a forced choice due to only truly having 1 power left to devote to the epic pool.

If the devs decide to go that route, that is their choice. However, I wouldn't hold my breath since the only pools that work that way are travel pools and ancillaries aren't travel pools.

 

19 minutes ago, Icecomet said:

So, because of that, I shouldn't be allowed to stay on my Ice theme because it would BREAK the game balance to allow a substandard toggle at 35 vs 41? 

Okay, first off, taking either Snow Storm or Flash Freeze does not break your "theme" for an ice character. Especially Flash Freeze since it specifically affects targets with ice. So you can drop the "theme" argument. Second, as I stated, some sets let you pick a defensive toggle or auto power early like you want and others let players like me take powers we prefer. So your argument is more about just making all the sets work they way you want and to hell with anyone that plays different. We can just take our other powers at level 41? Well, you can too on sets like Ice Mastery. Having equal access to sets that let us build differently is fair. Making them all work the way you want and everyone else has to work around it is not. So there goes your whole "fair" argument too. (Edit: And if it is such a sub-standard power, why are you on insistent on being able to get it? Most people don't fight anywhere this hard for things they consider inferior, weak, or sub-standard.)

 

12 minutes ago, Icecomet said:

You know, there is nothing that would force you to change what you're doing, you can continue to put yourself into difficult choices because you feel it would overpower you otherwise and keep your builds gimped.  Seriously, that's an option!  Because a change like this would be made, you don't have to respec or change ANYTHING that you're doing.

As long as it is someone else that has to make those choices for powers being available later and not you. Again, hardly a "fair" request.

 

Edited Monday at 03:02 AM by Rudra

[Stormwalker]

16 minutes ago, Icecomet said:

 

You know, there is nothing that would force you to change what you're doing, you can continue to put yourself into difficult choices because you feel it would overpower you otherwise and keep your builds gimped.  Seriously, that's an option!  Because a change like this would be made, you don't have to respec or change ANYTHING that you're doing.

 

That's not strictly true.  Because when you change what is possible - when you introduce power creep into the game - then the standard changes.  The expectation of other players changes.  So that's not actually the viable option people like to pretend it is.

[Stormwalker]

27 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

While preventing others from making their preferred builds.  

 

To me, the idea that a change is bad because it would affect one side's personal preferences isn't really fundamentally different than someone asking for a change that they think is good that would enable the other side's personal preferences.  The key difference is that one side currently has the high ground known as the status quo, which is then used to bludgeon idea people into submission.  This pattern is repeated ad infinitum every goddamn day.

 

For fuck's sake, some of the denizens of this forum don't can't or won't even say "good idea."  They say things like "I would not argue against this" instead.  This is where the perception issues in this forum come from, because instead of saying "cool, I like it," they say shit like "I wouldn't oppose it" which can lend to the perception that they somehow control the outcome when it reads like an imperious form of "I would allow that."

 

Stormwalker, the majority of this isn't aimed at you specifically.  I just quoted your post because that specific sentence struck me as an interesting point that you made.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except that your interpretation of what I'm saying is both out of context and invalid.

 

I want the game to remain the same as it has been.  Because the decisions to make the game the way it is were not made in a vacuum.

 

I want my existing builds which are already active on characters and were created within the framework of the game as it exists to continue working.

 

Icecomet wants to change the game, to change the way power pools work, and others in this thread have proposed changes that break existing builds.

 

Those are not the same thing.  That is a false equivalency.

 

Don't twist my words to make false equivalencies.  That makes me very angry.

Edited Monday at 03:10 AM by Stormwalker